Destruction Warlock stats

[Deleted]

Please for the love of the god that some choose to believe in, do not just go mental at this post. If you're an angsty person, please go elsewhere to release your rage.

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I HAVE been looking at the EJ Simcraft made on December 6th, and it appears that stats go like this:

Intellect > Spellpower > Crit > Haste > Mastery

I'd just like to know if people have actually tried stacking crit in Destruction spec instead of haste? I might still have WotLK stuck on my brain still, but I'm so used to spamming haste that I can't get over this new Simcraft post. It doesn't seem logic to me, as haste always will be a far more reliable stat.

[Kragtik]

hrmm i actually thought it was haste>crit so that's what I've been doing..

I'm topping meters while I am 'undergeared' compared to the people in my raid.. so, yeah..

[Zygersaf]

i javnt had chance to really play at 85 yeat :/ but i used to do taht order in wotlk xD minus teh intelect ofc

[Lyndonm33]

atm im doing haste>crit..seems to be working well

[Cusco]

What we have now, that we didn't have in wotlk, is an all time ISF buff. If that's not the sole reason crit rating beats haste rating, it should at least be the largest reason.

This is the calculation that says we need 1406 haste (it's closer to 1405, but the new immolate tick won't settle for "close enough", we need to pass it)

(((1 + 0.5) / 1.05) - 1) * 3 279 = 1 405.28571 Haste rating for GCD cap and a new immolate tick

If we had the ISF buff during the whole fight, we'd have to take that into account as well.
I can't remember if ISF is multiplied on top of the 5% buff, or just stacks with it. But either case...

Stacking
(((1 + 0.5) / 1.2) - 1) * 3 279 = 819.75 Haste rating

Multiplying
((((1 + 0.5) / 1.05) / 1.15) - 1) * 3 279 = 794.291925 Haste rating

If we had the ISF buff up during the whole fight, we would want one of those numbers, whichever is correct. We would be able to reach even more ticks with a larger amount of haste, but that would take us over the GCD cap and that's not very appealing in most cases (wouldn't be horrible for Demon). So the value of haste rating would go down.

In Cataclysm we do have ISF up during the whole fight. So we don't need as much haste, and therefore it has a lower value than it did in wotlk.

[Deleted]

Alright, so pretty much we want ~800 haste rating, and when that's capped, you want to stack crit? ("stack crit" as in, choose items with crit over items with haste, as you used to do in WotLK)

[Veyne]

Due to Improved Soul Fire's 15% haste buff, there is less demand right off the bat for haste for all Warlock specs, but it's still a stronger stat individually crit. We're rocking 18% haste JUST from Improved Soul Fire and the baseline bonus of Dark Intent, while we have very low critical strike ratings. So at the moment, it would probably be logical to look for a little more crit, but I still believe haste pulls ahead. Basically, Haste is stronger than Crit, but we need much less of it. From what I've read, after hit cap, we want to strive for haste cap with ISF+DI+Totemic Wrath, then we can look at stacking all the tasty crit our hearts desire.

Don't take my word for gospel, though.

[gherkin]

Haste is lower on EJ because they have reached the 30% threshold for another dot in Immolate. This is why haste is valued lower.

Any time you get just shy of 10, 30, or 50% Haste (buffed appropriately), Haste's dps value skyrockets.

[Stonepony]

Haste is lower on EJ because they have reached the 30% threshold for another dot in Immolate. This is why haste is valued lower.

Any time you get just shy of 10, 30, or 50% Haste (buffed appropriately), Haste's dps value skyrockets.

I'm currently a little over 14% haste unbuffed. With the raid buffs and soul fire that would put me at roughly 34% haste.

With the 10-30-50% and me being over the 30% mark I should start stacking crit/mastery over haste correct, or am I wrong?

[gherkin]

Correct. If you have over 10/30/50% but not by much, you can consider dropping a slot or two of +haste for +crit/+mastery in it's place.

But I highly recommend sicmrafting yourself first. The guidelines I follow and regurgitate around here may or may not apply to your specific gear set.

[Deleted]

It's pretty much what you guys already have said. I also read on EJ that crit > maste > haste, so naturally I stacked crit. But when I today ran a simcraft of my own with reasonable buffs and my own lock imported it reported haste at a value far above crit (and mastery). So I reforged my gear and raised my 450ish haste to 850ish, new simcraft, and voila, haste is just barely above crit and mastery. Pretty much confirms your thinking.

[Cusco]

Alright, so pretty much we want ~800 haste rating, and when that's capped, you want to stack crit? ("stack crit" as in, choose items with crit over items with haste, as you used to do in WotLK)

No. I'm sorry, I forgot to specify that those number are for WotLK. It's what would've happened in WotLK if we had an ISF buff with 100% uptime. So you do want more than 800 haste.


As Gherkin states, you want 10%, 30% or 50% haste. Based on Diivil in Paragon having 1513 haste rating = 11.82% haste, I caculated that you should get 1% haste per about 128 haste rating. 128.003384 was the result I got. That's probably not completely accurate, but it's close enough for now.

If we swap out the wotlk numbers (32.79 rating per 1%), the calculations should look like this. Note: I still don't know if ISF is stacking or multiplying. So I'll use both.

10%
(((1 + 0.1) / 1.20) - 1) * 12 800 = -1 066.66667
((((1 + 0.1) / 1.05) / 1.15) - 1) * 12 800 = -1 139.54451
Conclusion: It's impossible to be below 10% haste or even 20% haste, unless I did something wrong.

30%
(((1 + 0.3) / 1.20) - 1) * 12 800 = 1 066.66667
((((1 + 0.3) / 1.05) / 1.15) - 1) * 12 800 = 980.538302

50%
(((1 + 0.5) / 1.20) - 1) * 12 800 = 3 200
((((1 + 0.5) / 1.05) / 1.15) - 1) * 12 800 = 3 100.62112

Do not trust me on these numbers, I do not know for sure if they are correct.

[Oberoth]

Damn now I have to reforge my gear... I was going to get further into stats after I finished heroic gearing....Just kinda went Hast>Crit on habit...lol

[Deleted]

- Gherkin: I don't really understand where you get these numbers from? Not questioning your imbaness, I'd just like to know so I can understand. I just recently got into more hardcore gaming and would like to just understand everything from the buttom. And Simcrafting your character; is that the guide in the "Fix My DPS"?

- Cusco: I don't understand your calculations (either).

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30%
1. (((1 + 0.3) / 1.20) - 1) * 12 800 = 1 066.66667
2. ((((1 + 0.3) / 1.05) / 1.15) - 1) * 12 800 = 980.538302

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1. Why do you divide by 1.20 and time it with 12,800?
2. Why do you divide by 1.15 and time it with 12,800?

I'm probably just being a complete fucktard, but it's been ages since I had to deal with math.

[ammo187]

Can we get a definitive answer please on this? I read this post and I'm even more confused now than before I clicked the link to come here. It seems like Gherkin is the moderator so I prefer to follow his answers as the final word... Can we get one please?

[Deleted]

Okay, I just actually read the Fix My DPS post and found out that there wasn't a guide there. I can't seem to find it on google.

- Ammo187: Stop being so negative and actually read what people say. It's been said that you should Simcraft your character in your current gear to see how your stats scale.

[Cusco]

- Cusco: I don't understand your calculations (either).

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30%
1. (((1 + 0.3) / 1.20) - 1) * 12 800 = 1 066.66667
2. ((((1 + 0.3) / 1.05) / 1.15) - 1) * 12 800 = 980.538302

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1. Why do you divide by 1.20 and time it with 12,800?
2. Why do you divide by 1.15 and time it with 12,800?

I'm probably just being a complete fucktard, but it's been ages since I had to deal with math.

A. I divide by 1.20 to add in both the 5% buff provided by shadowpriests and whatnot, and the 15% haste buff provided by your Improved Soul Fire.
B. I first divide by 1.05 to add in the 5% buff, and then I divide by an additional 1.15 to add in the 15% buff provided by your Improved Soul Fire.
The reason I do both of these calculations is that I don't know if ISF stacks with the 5% buff (5+15) or if it's multiplying (1.05*1.15). So I do both calculations to be sure one of the two numbers is correct.



C. 12800 represents the 128.00 haste rating per 1% haste. Add another 128 haste rating to your stats and you'll find yourself having (rougly) 1% more haste - roughly as it's not precisely 128.00, it's probably something like 128.005. Not that it makes a noticeable difference.
The reason I multiply by 12800 and not 128.00, is because of this: "(((1 + 0.3) / 1.20) - 1)". Those number represents:

1: the 100% cast speed you always have (at 0 haste rating), you always have a base cast time and that is always 100% before you add more through rating and buffs. When you mouseover your haste rating ingame and it says you have 32% haste, you really have 132% cast speed. It's like movement speed. Your default walking speed is 100%, add a 100% mount to that and you have 200%, or add a 310% drake and you'll have 410%. That's how it works, and mounts' percentages are what they are (60, 100, 150, 280, 310) just because of your default walking speed.

Anyhow, let's get back on track. I first add this 1 because it (the 100% default cast speed) is affected by the 5% and 15% haste buffs and we have to add that into the equation, but then I remove it again so that I can calculate the haste rating you need from gear, which these 100% isn't a part of. So this 1 represent both 1s in the equation.

0.1 / 0.3 / 0.5: the 10%, 30% and 50% Haste percentages from gear, that we want to convert to Haste Rating. The goal is that you should see one of these three percentages when you mouseover your haste-rating ingame, and we want to calculate how much haste rating you need to have to reach those percentages. It's the peak percentages, where you benefit the most from your Haste. It's not as valuable to be at 20, 40 or 60 % haste.
EDIT: No, that's not right. You don't want to see 10, 30 or 50 % when you mouseover your haste rating, because it won't take buffs into consideration. You want to have 10, 30 or 50 % haste with buffs and we have to do these calculations to see how much rating that requires.

1.20 / 1.05 & 1.15: These numbers represents the 5% and 15% buffs.

As you can see, all of the numbers are in hundredths, because that's how you calculate percentages: in hundredths. 1 = 100%, 0.5 = 50%, 0.25 = 25% etc.
This means that the 128.00 rating per 1% also has to be in hundredths, if I don't take that into consideration and just multiply by 128.00 I will get the result that I need 32 haste rating to reach 50%, which is just wrong. So The 12800 represents 128.00 in hundredths: 128.00 * 100.


I'm sorry if I'm being unclear and confusing, I'm not very good at explaining.

[Deleted]

Ahhh, I see now. No, I found your explanation very helpful thank you so much for taking the time.

I have roughly ~10% haste unbuffed, which is around 1240. Add 15%, 3% and 5% (if Mind Quickening adds) to that, that's 33% - suppose that's okay then. Do you have any idea how you simcraft?

[Cusco]

Oo thanks for reminding me about dark intent! I completely forgot about that. And yes, Mind Quickening does add, but if you have Mind Quickening, Moonkin Aura and Wrath of Air totem up at the same time, only one of them counts. You only get 5%, not 5 + 5 + 5 %.

And actually, that's not really how it works. With 1240 rating, you should have ~9,7% haste. You said roughly 10%, so 9.7 should at least be close enough. That means you currently have 109.7% cast speed. To add the 15%, 3% and 5% buff you can't simply add them by addition. 109.7 + 15 + 3 + 5 won't give you the correct value. You have to multiply.

This isn't increasing your haste by 23 percentage points (15 + 5 + 3), it's not 109.7 + 23 = 132.7% cast speed.
If the buffs stacks, it's increasing your total cast speed by 23 percents, not percentage points. It's 109.7 * 1.23 = ~134.9% cast speed.
If the buffs multiplies and not stacks (1.15*1.05*1.03 instead of 15+5+3), the buff is 24.4% and your cast speed is 109.7 * 1.244 = 136.5%.
It might not look like a very big difference, but it is. So you can't just add the buff numbers to your current haste using addition, you have to multiply.

So you're either at ~35% or at ~36.5%, not at ~33%.