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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    From latest 4.1 PTR notes: Dark Intent: The friendly target of this ability now receives 1% (stacking 3 times to 3%) periodic spell damage and healing bonus instead of 3% (stacking 3 times to 9%). The casting Warlock still receives 3% (stacking 3 times to 9%).

    At least its not a nerf for us
    Not that I think it's a good practice, but I wonder how that affects circlejerking DI, since that makes it effectively trigger two entirely different buffs depending on whether you are the giver or the receiver of DI.

  2. #222
    Not sure if this has been covered but with the target nerf to DI, Would it be better to trade it with another lock in the raid then we would be both at 30% haste, Or still better to place on a SP?

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by warlockSTAR View Post
    Not sure if this has been covered but with the target nerf to DI, Would it be better to trade it with another lock in the raid then we would be both at 30% haste, Or still better to place on a SP?
    Given the coming change to DI in 4.1 the margin between which class gets priority will definately be smaller. I believe it will come down to who can keep the warlocks stacks up the most. I would go with whoever has the highest crit rating.

  4. #224
    you can go about it that way, or you could go about it smartly.
    ie, who benefits the most from it. Not who will make you benefit the most from it.

    I still think its gonna be spriests, firemagii and restodroods, but now what they receive is quite laughable.
    Still don't trade it with warlocks, or the raid loses 3% dot damage.
    3% dot damage on a priest or firemage spreading combustion > your personal dps increase

    Not doubt a lot of warlocks will go for highest personal uptime from now on, like the boomkin above suggest (and wants!). Which is sad.

  5. #225
    Can't stack the DI's anymore, so if you try to swap it with another warlock to get 6% haste, it overrides the previous DI, and will only give the 1% stacks to the warlock you gave it to. From what I can tell give it to the player that can get the benefit out of it as the buff is so much less now. Notice I said player and not a certain class, as each raid is different in terms of player skill -

  6. #226
    Guide needs to be redone with new numbers.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinagami091 View Post
    Given the coming change to DI in 4.1 the margin between which class gets priority will definately be smaller. I believe it will come down to who can keep the warlocks stacks up the most. I would go with whoever has the highest crit rating.
    Remember that it's number of dot crits, not % of dot crits, that will ultimately determine uptime. So while a boomkin may have a higher crit rating, a shadowpriest will have a much higher number of dot ticks. Ultimately, reviewing logs is your best bet

    Would love to see updated numbers for 4.1

  8. #228
    Unless some classes mechanics were changed in the patch, shouldnt the relative rankings remain the same? The only thing that was changed was the percentages....lowering everyones numbers by the same proportion. I guess it may change around the rankings for classes whos primary benefit from DI was the haste rather than the damage increase....but those classes were near the bottom anyway

  9. #229
    I am Murloc! rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cleotaurus View Post
    Unless some classes mechanics were changed in the patch, shouldnt the relative rankings remain the same? The only thing that was changed was the percentages....lowering everyones numbers by the same proportion. I guess it may change around the rankings for classes whos primary benefit from DI was the haste rather than the damage increase....but those classes were near the bottom anyway
    For the most part it would be a across the board reduction by 2%. But 4.1 also introduced some new gear which might effect some numbers and some of the SimC profiles used for the data inputs might have been changed to better reflect live since the numbers were last generated.

    So while one can make a pretty good educated guess at what the numbers will be like after 4.1 it would still be nice to see the numbers.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by cleotaurus View Post
    Unless some classes mechanics were changed in the patch, shouldnt the relative rankings remain the same? The only thing that was changed was the percentages....lowering everyones numbers by the same proportion. I guess it may change around the rankings for classes whos primary benefit from DI was the haste rather than the damage increase....but those classes were near the bottom anyway
    If I remember right also the old version based on a SimulationCraft version where the ShadowPriest support had a bug counting the effects of the Talent "Darkness" twice. Not sure how much (or if at all) this influences the results of the Dark Intent list.

  11. #231
    Stood in the Fire rethea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    For the most part it would be a across the board reduction by 2%. But 4.1 also introduced some new gear which might effect some numbers and some of the SimC profiles used for the data inputs might have been changed to better reflect live since the numbers were last generated.

    So while one can make a pretty good educated guess at what the numbers will be like after 4.1 it would still be nice to see the numbers.
    I know some fire mage mechanics changed because my usual target when our spriest is healing doesn't want it anymore...
    To quote the great sage Ook Ook, "you can take the derk out of the jib, but you shouldn't put the jib in the derk."

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by rethea View Post
    I know some fire mage mechanics changed because my usual target when our spriest is healing doesn't want it anymore...
    Maybe he respecced to Arcane? For a firemage this does not make sense. Despite Dot Crits no longer proccing ignite, a large part of the damage is done by dots. Actually this change fixed Ignite Munching which before would "kill" some dot dmg (in total it is a around 1% dmg nerf, appearently, though).

  13. #233
    Any chance this is gonna be updated for 4.1/4.2 numbers?
    no way a spriest is gettin that much dps gain from it now.

  14. #234
    Legendary! gherkin's Avatar
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    In progress right now. Simcraft now does this for me so I'm doing it in bulk, which is taking a while...
    And yes, the relative rankings will stay the same. This will probably be the last time I update this post because % of damage gained does not seem to change as gear on both sides increases.

    ---------- Post added 2011-05-20 at 01:07 PM ----------

    Updated for 4.2 mechanics using 372 BIS 4.1 gear profiles.

    New numbers were obtained using SimCraft, not excel or a custom application. Instructions for you to repeat this going forward forthcoming.

    R.I.P. YARG

  15. #235
    Brewmaster Prozac's Avatar
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    Thanks Gherkin

  16. #236
    Thanks Gherkin for the update on the numbers..

    one thing though that i can't seem to understand, is the uptime arcane mages give..

    to my knowledge arcane mages use no dots what so ever.
    are any of their spells able to proc DI, and in that case do you know which ?
    Last edited by Neevo; 2011-05-24 at 03:16 PM.

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  17. #237
    Legendary! gherkin's Avatar
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    Arcane Missiles & Flame Orb are both treated as periodic effects by SimCraft. I have not tested if they actually proc DI or not.

    Keep in mind that this is uptime of at least 1 stack, not the full 3. I have no way of determining the latter without about 7 hours of meticulous copy/pasting into spreadsheets. I did that for 4.0 and it was a terrible, terrible waste of time.

    R.I.P. YARG

  18. #238
    hey

    i just went to the dummies with our mage, in arcane, no procs at all sadly. he switched to fire, and stacked us both up for 3. actually, not overly sure about flame orb, but am rather sure that missiles didn't.

    obviously, i was just standing there, not cating, the procs came from the mage alone

  19. #239
    Hello I have a question regarding who should get DI in our raids

    We have 2 spriests and 1 moonkin (and usually 2 locks but sometimes just one)

    I realise that in theory the spriests should get it, but looking at our dps meters it can differ everything from 5k-12k dps between the moonkin and spriests (moonkin being on top)

    I did some checks with Simcraft and DI. It calculates that a moonkin in BiS gear should do around 26720dps WITH DI on single target. Which seems fairly accurate to how our moonkin performs. (plus a few hundred dps but nothing that really matters). The problem is that our spriests do around 21-23k while Simcraft says that a spriest should do: 28445 dps. Now this is a pretty big difference.

    Thats just an example of a solo target fight (atramedes, blended with many kills so its quite accurate). Now to mulittarget fights the difference is even bigger. Say omnotron/council the dps difference can be everything from 5-12 as mentioned above.


    I assume that the moonkin should get it since it has a 1% higher uptime on DI on the lock (I realise that this is a really really small difference but everything adds up) And the fact that the moonkin usually does More damage than what Simcraft says and spriests do less. I see it so that if the spriest should in theory do more damage than the moonkin but in practise does less, it's obvious that the moonkin should get it.


    What do you guys think?

    (Can link to logs and stuff if it makes it easier)

    I'm also wondering if there's any fairly accurate way to see who should get DI by just comparing the dps between the players in raid. I mean, does moonkin go before spriest as soon as the dps is equal? does moonkin go ahead at 1k dps above? 3k? etc..
    (I also realise that this isnt 100% accurate but something small to go on when deciding who should get it "on-the-fly", meaning, without calculating everything mid-raid.
    Last edited by Larrabee; 2011-06-08 at 10:29 PM.
    Monk tank in <Liquicity>, a Swedish 10m guild on Neptulon-EU 16/16 HC

  20. #240
    Brewmaster Prozac's Avatar
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    In favor of the warlock, the personal uptime is better when he puts it on a bDruid. Also, the DPS-gain difference is roughly 200 DPS. I'd say, if your moonkin is putting out so much more that the warlocks just should put it on them. (or atleast one of them)

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