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  1. #181
    Scenario: Two locks as well as a shadow priest are in a raid. Supposing lock A casts Dark Intent on lock B, and lock B casts Dark Intent on the spriest. Wouldn't lock B receive an 18% periodic damage increase supposing both lock A and the spriest managed to stack Dark Intent to 3?

  2. #182
    Is the newest haste stat values being factored in for fire mages in your calculations where haste = crit for fire?

  3. #183
    This is an amazing guide, thank you tremendously!
    85: Paladin | Druid | Shaman | Warlock | Death Knight | Mage | Hunter | Rogue | Warrior | Priest

  4. #184
    Legendary! gherkin's Avatar
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    New numbers in a day or two. Attempting to factor in 4.1 changes.

    R.I.P. YARG

  5. #185
    Hi Gherkin. As you've noted, this is based on Patchwerk-style bosses. There are very few bosses in this current raid tier that are actually just single target -- there are many fights where specs that can "Double DoT" should. Shadow Priests will obviously remain number one for every scenario, but for any fight where a spec can double DoT, my guess is that Balance Druids will rise above Fire Magi and Feral Druids - though, I could be wrong.

    I suppose I'm wondering if you'd agree with that assertion - I'd love to have this settled for people in my guild who are curious about the many double target fights we have available in this tier. Thanks!

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Silveria View Post
    Hi Gherkin. As you've noted, this is based on Patchwerk-style bosses. There are very few bosses in this current raid tier that are actually just single target -- there are many fights where specs that can "Double DoT" should. Shadow Priests will obviously remain number one for every scenario, but for any fight where a spec can double DoT, my guess is that Balance Druids will rise above Fire Magi and Feral Druids - though, I could be wrong.
    Why should that be? Fire Mages are double-dot'ing in such scenario's as well. If it is more than 2 targets (and targets close to each other) like Heroic Halfus, and Maloriak even more (Combustion+Impact mechanics+Pyromaniac). I actually was wondering, if Dark Intent on such a "Impact-Scenario" might not push the advantage for the firemage above the shadow (but I am not sure). But I guess might be hard to simulate all those different options.

  7. #187
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagicSN View Post
    Why should that be? Fire Mages are double-dot'ing in such scenario's as well. If it is more than 2 targets (and targets close to each other) like Heroic Halfus, and Maloriak even more (Combustion+Impact mechanics+Pyromaniac). I actually was wondering, if Dark Intent on such a "Impact-Scenario" might not push the advantage for the firemage above the shadow (but I am not sure). But I guess might be hard to simulate all those different options.
    It wouldn't have to be all that hard. You just take the uptime value for the current dots, and add it together. Most would likely reach 100% uptime however. Though I suppose if you want to be accurate you would have to run a simulation for "little to no" debuffs on the other targets and see if the uptime values change.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by MagicSN View Post
    Why should that be? Fire Mages are double-dot'ing in such scenario's as well. If it is more than 2 targets (and targets close to each other) like Heroic Halfus, and Maloriak even more (Combustion+Impact mechanics+Pyromaniac). I actually was wondering, if Dark Intent on such a "Impact-Scenario" might not push the advantage for the firemage above the shadow (but I am not sure). But I guess might be hard to simulate all those different options.
    It's always going to depend on the fight - if there is an impact scenario, yes, this argument is most likely invalid. But if the targets are spread, and given the fact that Moonkin are double DoTing two DoTs and not just one, it makes sense that we'd likely be the better target.

  9. #189
    In regards to you using T11 gear (ilvl 372), are you also including the equip bonuses for each set? If not, keep in mind that Balance druids 2pc increases our dot crit chance by 5% and the 4pc gives us a 100% crit chance for our dots when we proc an eclipse, which is rougly 40% of the time.

    You're numbers should also reflect multiple targets which there are plently more fights with multiple targets than there are single targets. Atramedes, Chimaron and possible council of the winds are the only encounters in which there is only one target.
    Last edited by Shinagami091; 2011-03-20 at 10:52 PM.

  10. #190
    Legendary! gherkin's Avatar
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    The numbers reflect 4pc.

    Multiple targets is something I'm working on but have nothing to provide, other than Moonkins can double dot more efficiently and thoroughly than a mage. My order for 2 targets would be Shadow, Balance, Mage, but keep in mind fight mechanics. Twilight realm on heroic dragons means that DI stops working, so cast it on someone who comes with you or stays out with you.

    ---------- Post added 2011-03-21 at 12:03 PM ----------

    Also remember that while many of the numbers reflect very highly on the warlock, Destro/Demo locks who do not double-dot or do so poorly do not benefit the target as much as they could be.

    Pay attention to your dots, for the raid's sake.

    R.I.P. YARG

  11. #191
    I feel dumb but is raid dps the lock and the person buffed?
    My issue right now in my 10mans the locks put DI both on my rdruid because of the dps increase for them both, we are worried it seems a waste since I dont need that much haste. But the only other choices are the holy priest, ele shaman, combat rogue atm the priest thinks he needs it the most so he can reforge around but is offering really no return for the locks they barely ever make a 3 stack on most fights and lose like 3k dps. We only count maybe 15-20 hot crits over a given fight example Ascendant Council last night. What I am looking at is we are not having a healing issue at all on fights, so I figure dps would work better for DI. At the moment looks best to keep both on my druid would be the biggest dps increase for the raid, I know from my rogue as combat its nice the haste but worthless to the lock it never really stays 3stacked. Last things, we do give it to the priest on Chimeraon for the haste for spells and Im looking for a solution cause tired of raid bickering cause I could care less about the extra haste. Please and thank you for any help.
    Last edited by Plexiforce; 2011-03-25 at 01:48 PM.
    Rogues don't have loyalties, they have contracts and their blades are purchased in gold.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by gherkin View Post
    New numbers in a day or two. Attempting to factor in 4.1 changes.
    Any news in the meanwhile?

  13. #193
    Legendary! gherkin's Avatar
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    @Plexi - Keep it on the druid. Holy priests are only good if they're renewing people and in a 10m this is not a good idea.

    @Magic - Had some IRL stuff cast Immolation Aura. Other priorities took over. I'll be getting on this soon (soon™ ?)

    R.I.P. YARG

  14. #194
    Thank I also posted it in the raid forums and basically got 2 pages full of idiots that didnt know how to read.
    Best was the one telling me to use the EJ Dark intent list and I had to point out that he should learn to read sincet in the EJ post he says thank you to you and links this sticky and that I had already linked and mention this post silly forum posters.
    Rogues don't have loyalties, they have contracts and their blades are purchased in gold.

  15. #195
    Legendary! gherkin's Avatar
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    It's amazing how many people just read the title or skim. If you can't devote 4 extra seconds to reading more of a persons post, get back to twitter. Some moron tweeting his poops wants you to follow him.

    However, a holy priest does gain a substantial amount of HPS at certain haste levels. But since he isn't casting renew enough to proc it on you, then he's not utilizing his haste as much as the spec has been simmed to gain from it.

    R.I.P. YARG

  16. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by gherkin View Post
    2) Some AOE is affected by Dark Intent. Demonology Warlocks and Balance Druids on Maloriak are insane.
    One question - does that line mean 3 demo locks should go with a circle on MaloHC, not deal out the DI to fire mages/spriests?

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    One question - does that line mean 3 demo locks should go with a circle on MaloHC, not deal out the DI to fire mages/spriests?
    Don't know the Encounter on HC, but on normal mode Firemages are quite insane there too.
    Just before the green phase, you cast a pyro on the boss, then procc impact on the adds,
    combustion, impact -> huge dps as the debuffs (doubled by combustion) get copied on all
    adds. And the time between green phases suits the cooldown of combustion perfectly.

  18. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagicSN View Post
    Don't know the Encounter on HC, but on normal mode Firemages are quite insane there too.
    Just before the green phase, you cast a pyro on the boss, then procc impact on the adds,
    combustion, impact -> huge dps as the debuffs (doubled by combustion) get copied on all
    adds. And the time between green phases suits the cooldown of combustion perfectly.
    Sorry, but this is as far from what I asked about as... No, I even lack comparison. Please, if you don't have anything to input into the thread don't post just to bump the counter.

  19. #199
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Sorry, but this is as far from what I asked about as... No, I even lack comparison. Please, if you don't have anything to input into the thread don't post just to bump the counter.
    What they posted was input, however you being a jerk and trying to moderate is not. They were stating how fire mages can be just as insane as "Demonology Warlocks and Balance Druids on Maloriak". Just because they didn't answer your question is no reason to be a jerk.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  20. #200
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    What they posted was input, however you being a jerk and trying to moderate is not. They were stating how fire mages can be just as insane as "Demonology Warlocks and Balance Druids on Maloriak". Just because they didn't answer your question is no reason to be a jerk.
    Sorry, but the input I saw was "I don't know the encounter in question and I don't know the answer to question you asked, so I'll just say fire mages have good AoE DPS.". And what you just posted is not input either, nor is this post, so I'll just drop the pointless argument. ;)

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