Page 1 of 14
1
2
3
11
... LastLast
  1. #1
    Legendary! gherkin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts
    6,003

    [Mechanics] Dark Intent (4.2)

    First and foremost, you should gauge the needs of your group. When learning raid fights or playing with undergeared healers, they should always come first. When you hit enrage timers or wipe because the boss has a burn phase you didn't complete - this is when to consider applying it to DPS classes. I'll leave this up to you.

    Is this post confusing? Register and let me know, either by PM or by posting. Let's get this thing readable by everyone


    Healer Ranking:

    Unfortunately, healing is relative to the encounter and the ability of the people in the group to not take damage. Exact numbers cannot be given, but here is the ranking based on number of crits per minute for healers:

    ******TO DO: HEALING NUMBERS

    1) Restoration Druid
    2) Holy Priest (Raid Healing)
    3) Restoration Shaman
    4) Holy Priest (Tank Healing)
    5) Discipline Priest**
    6) Holy Paladins***

    ** Some discipline priests will forego Renew entirely, meaning they have much fewer hots than you would expect
    *** Only have a HOT via Glyphing, so you are basically only providing 3% haste to them.



    ------------------------------------------------------------



    DPS Ranking:

    TLDR: Dark Intent the Shadow Priest first, and Balance druids second, Fire Mages third

    All of the numbers in this guide were obtained using BIS T11 gear (iLVL 372) and 4.2 BIS Profiles & Mechanics

    Ranking by RAID DPS GAIN (Caster is Affliction w/ Drain Life)
    Code:
    	Class			DPS GAIN
    1) 	Shadow Priest		2620
    2) 	Balance Druid		2483
    3) 	Fire Mage		2295
    4) 	Elemental Shaman	2083
    5) 	Frost Mage		2050
    6) 	Arcane Mage		1818
    7)	Feral Druid (Hit Cap)	1806
    8) 	Feral Druid		1778
    9)	Survival Hunter		1683
    10)	Retribution Paladin	1628
    11)	Combat Rogue		1579
    12)	Marksman Hunter		1567
    13)	Unholy DK (2H)		1550
    14)	Enhancement Shaman	1548
    15)	Unholy DK (1H)		1543
    16)	Frost DK (2H)		1533
    17)	Assassination Rogue	1523
    18)	Frost DK (1H)		1469
    19) 	Beast Mastery Hunter	1464
    Ranking by RAID DPS GAIN (Caster is Affliction w/ Shadow Bolt)
    Code:
    	Class			DPS GAIN
    1) 	Shadow Priest		2471
    2) 	Balance Druid		2313
    3) 	Fire Mage		2125
    4) 	Elemental Shaman	1949
    5) 	Frost Mage		1848
    6) 	Arcane Mage		1681
    7)	Feral Druid (Hit Cap)	1617
    8) 	Feral Druid		1610
    9)	Survival Hunter		1550
    10)	Retribution Paladin	1410
    11)	Combat Rogue		1405
    12)	Enhancement Shaman	1371
    13)	Marksman Hunter		1354
    14)	Assassination Rogue	1339
    15)	Frost DK (1H)		1323
    16)	Frost DK (2H)		1311
    17)	Unholy DK (2H)		1303
    18)	Beast Mastery Hunter	1284
    19) 	Unholy DK (1H)		1252
    Ranking by RAID DPS GAIN (Caster is Demonology)
    Code:
    	Class			DPS GAIN
    1) 	Shadow Priest		2162
    2) 	Balance Druid		1936
    3) 	Fire Mage		1848
    4) 	Elemental Shaman	1603
    5) 	Frost Mage		1480
    6) 	Feral Druid		1257
    7)	Arcane Mage		1224
    8) 	Feral Druid (Hit Cap)	1224
    9)	Survival Hunter		1162
    10)	Retribution Paladin	1160
    11)	Combat Rogue		1031
    12)	Assassination Rogue	1014
    13)	Enhancement Shaman	1009
    14)	Frost DK (1H)		983
    15)	Frost DK (2H)		982
    16)	Beast Mastery Hunter	960
    17)	Unholy DK (1H)		941
    18)	Unholy DK (2H)		938
    19) 	Marksman Hunter		871

    Ranking by RAID DPS GAIN (Caster is Destruction)
    Code:
    	Class			DPS GAIN
    1) 	Shadow Priest		2214
    2) 	Balance Druid		2011
    3) 	Fire Mage		1898
    4) 	Elemental Shaman	1678
    5) 	Frost Mage		1532
    6) 	Arcane Mage		1343
    7)	Feral Druid		1309
    8) 	Feral Druid (Hit Cap)	1308
    9)	Survival Hunter		1256
    10)	Retribution Paladin	1171
    11)	Combat Rogue		1155
    12)	Unholy DK (2H)		1102
    13)	Assassination Rogue	1087
    14)	Frost DK (2H)		1081
    15)	Marksman Hunter		1070
    16)	Beast Mastery Hunter	1058
    17)	Enhancement Shaman	1032
    18)	Frost DK (1H)		1018
    19) 	Unholy DK (1H)		995
    Ranking by PERSONAL DARK INTENT UPTIME
    Code:
    	Class			Up Time
    1) 	Balance Druid		99%
    2) 	Shadow Priest		98%
    3) 	Survival Hunter		98%
    4) 	Feral Druid		95%
    5) 	Feral Druid (Hit Cap)	93%
    6) 	Fire Mage		88%
    7)	Frost Mage		82%
    8) 	Assassination Rogue	76%
    9)	Elemental Shaman	74%
    10)	Unholy DK (1H)		72%
    11)	Beast Mastery Hunter	69%
    12)	Combat Rogue		66%
    13)	Arcane Mage		62%
    14)	Unholy DK (2H)		60%
    15)	Marksman Hunter		57%
    16)	Enhancement Shaman	55%
    17)	Retribution Paladin	46%
    18)	Frost DK (2H)		41%
    19) 	Frost DK (1H)		40%


    A few things to cover:
    1) There may be glitches where certain abilities do not proc Dark Intent on Critical Strike. This will lower that class' ranking.
    2) Some AOE is affected by Dark Intent. Demonology Warlocks and Balance Druids on Maloriak are insane.
    3) Class ranking is based on both Total DPS and dot Crit Rating. Classes with high dot crits (Frost Mages) will rank higher than classes with larger % Damage from DoTs due to the mechanic and benefit to the lock.
    4) This is very much gear and skill based. For example, a Demonology Warlock has a 92.8% uptime of 3 stacks on their partner. If he only has 15% crit, this drops to 78% uptime. If he has pathetic uptime on his DoT's (lets say 70% uptime) and only 15% crit, this drops again to 65% uptime. A note for selfish locks: THIS DOES NOT MEAN CIRCLE JERK YOUR BUFF JUST BECAUSE THE SHADOW PRIEST IS BAD. DO THE MATH PROPERLY.
    5) This calculation doesn't take into account some class' inability to stack the buff to 3. However, the ones with low enough proc rates to worry about are so low on the tree that this is inconsequential in a normal raid. I am working to improve my calculations for future updates.
    6) If you skip the Shadow Priests to buff a Balance Druid/Survival Hunter for a pathetic 1% uptime gain over a 1100+ raid dps loss, and I find out you used this post to justify it, I will find you and punch you in the junk.


    ------------------------------------------------------------

    The Warlock Circle Jerk, and when its appropriate:


    THIS SECTION IS OUTDATED. WILL UPDATE LATER.
    TEMPORARY ANSWER IS "IF THEY CAN GET AN EXTRA TICK OUT OF IMMOLATE THROUGH THIS AND THERE IS NO SPRIEST, THEN YES."
    On second thought, why are they destro in 4.1 or 4.2?

    First off, it is never appropriate for an Affliction or Demonology Warlock to receive it from another Warlock. The gains simply are not there. The only thing you gain in this situation is 3% Haste for an approximate 600 dps. That doesn't even register on the gains any other class or healer would have. The only situation this might work is 2 Paladin Healers, 2 Death Knight Tanks, 4 Warriors and 2 Warlocks, but if you joined this raid then God have mercy on your soul shards.


    The conditions for this situation are very precise:

    Two Destruction warlocks who, with 1 Dark Intent each, sit at exactly 26.2233% Haste raid buffed. This means that with a second Dark Intent they will be at 30.01% for the extra Immolate tick and Conflagrate damage, with zero extra haste wasted due to passing this "soft cap". The .01 is important because sometimes Blizzard rounds funny, and we want to play it safe.

    VS

    Two Destruction Warlocks + Any Two Other Raiders


    26.2233% / 3% DI / 5% Raid Aura = 16.71% from gear = 2140 Rating.

    First, lets run the profile through SimCraft, adjusted to have 2140 Haste Rating.
    No DI: 23178
    1 DI: 24272
    Copy paste of SimCraft stats for Haste: Spell Haste 26.22% Raid Buffed, 2140 Gear Rating

    Now lets give them a second DI (increase spell haste rating to 2590 - the 30.01% haste cap.)
    New DPS: 25294

    Gain: 1022 DPS.

    That's fairly substantial, lets add it all up:
    Destruction Warlock 1 Gain from First DI: 1094
    Destruction Warlock 1 Gain from Second DI: 1022 (Haste Only)
    Destruction Warlock 2 Gain from First DI: 1094
    Destruction Warlock 2 Gain from Second DI: 1022 (Haste Only)

    Raid DPS gain: 4232

    Look at the Destruction ranking charts for your particular guild.
    Take the two highest ranked classes you have and add them together.
    Is the total above 4232?

    YES: Circle jerking is bad
    NO: Enjoy the self love

    The question will remain: does this apply to your guild and your players? Most of the time, yes. Players of similar skill levels tend to play together, but not always. However, I would like to make one thing very clear: a badly played Shadow Priest will still equal if not out-perform Dual Destruction. This is because they are so far ahead of everyone else in terms of the 9% buff. If your Priest is so bad that Dual Destruction is better, then I encourage you to rethink inviting this person to your raid in the first place.



    ------------------------------------------------------------


    A note to non-warlocks: We will (should) pick our targets based on personal gain and the needs of the raid. This means picking the best target (inclusive of skill) for DPS or Healing, whichever is required. Hell, we may even pick a tank to increase aoe threat maintenance.

    However, should you want to know how much we will proc Dark Intent on your behalf, I provide you with the following numbers. To calculate it for yourself, you need to know your haste scale factors, and either your total dps of DoT's OR your total dps and the percentage of that number your dots.

    Total DPS + Percentage from DoT's
    (387.2 x HASTE SCALE FACTOR) + (TOTAL DPS * % OF DAMAGE FROM DOTS * (1 + Percentage below)) = TOTAL SELF GAIN

    Total DPS From Dots
    (387.2 x HASTE SCALE FACTOR) + (TOTAL DPS FROM DOTS * (1 + Percentage below)) = TOTAL SELF GAIN


    Lastly, you should know that this is entirely gear and skill dependant. For example, below you see a Demonology lock with 92.8% uptime. If he only has 15% crit, this drops to 78% uptime. If he has pathetic uptime on his DoT's (lets say 70% uptime) and only 15% crit, this drops again to 65% uptime.


    Rankings by spec for uptime
    Affliction (35% Crit): 99.3% Uptime (8.937% DPS)
    Demonology (27% Crit): 90.8% Uptime (8.171% DPS)
    Destruction (26% Crit): 90.0% Uptime (8.097% DPS)



    ------------------------------------------------------------



    You can do this in simcraft now, which is how I obtained these numbers. Instructions forthcoming.
    Last edited by gherkin; 2011-05-20 at 08:06 PM.

    R.I.P. YARG

  2. #2
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    252
    Thank you for your hard work. Not just as a Shadow Priest gaining invaluable information convincing others that we should receive this buff, but also as a friend who you help out a lot with more than just theory-crafting

  3. #3
    First of all thank you for providing a guide for this. I'm really glad to have some well-presented maths to refer to when picking targets for dark intent.

    I have 1 small question and I promise not to follow it up. What is being classified as a Frostfire mage?
    A. Fire mage using the glyph of Frostfire and Frostfire bolt as their main nuke.
    B. Frost mage using the glyph of Frostfire and Frostfire bolt as their main nuke.
    C. Something else.

    I'm not arguing with the results, just confused as I thought (assuming it's A) that they would gain more from dark intent than a fire mage or a frost mage.

    Thanks in advance.

    Doomhammer EU

  4. #4
    Legendary! gherkin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts
    6,003
    Frostfire mage is a primarily Frost spec using Frostfire bolt instead of Frostbolt.

    ---------- Post added 2010-12-16 at 02:24 PM ----------

    One thing I'd like to add - if you pick a target with less than 66% uptime on the warlock (basically Combat Rogue and lower) you run an increased risk of just never hitting 3 stacks of the buff, and therefore getting a lot less dps than listed.

    Probability sucks sometimes.

    R.I.P. YARG

  5. #5
    Praise be to the mighty Gherkin!

    Even if I do curse your brethren when I find them in my burger >_<

  6. #6
    Bloodsail Admiral
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    1,248
    Taking an approach of looking just at the uptime of the buff and at dps classes.

    In current gear (considering BiS gear is weeks/months away for many people) I have found Shadow Priests with the low crit rating not providing good uptime of the buff. I put it on one of our Survival Hunters atm and have found a far greater lvl of uptime.

  7. #7
    awesome post man. you deserve +5 internets!

  8. #8
    Legendary! gherkin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts
    6,003
    Quote Originally Posted by Geomatician View Post
    Taking an approach of looking just at the uptime of the buff and at dps classes.

    In current gear (considering BiS gear is weeks/months away for many people) I have found Shadow Priests with the low crit rating not providing good uptime of the buff. I put it on one of our Survival Hunters atm and have found a far greater lvl of uptime.
    Two things:
    1) Make sure this priest is putting up all his dots - remember that as affliction you don't use all your dots on a trash mob, Shadow Priests do the same (Survival hunters just blow everything). I will try to come up with a "5 man friendly" version of this, but it won't be anything close to 100% accurate.

    2) Crit Rate makes all the difference in the world. Low crit = lower than expected numbers. Basically, you want to look at how much crit someone has - if its 24% or more, the above numbers apply. If it's sub-20%, you might want to consider the next person in the list. Just remember that while you may not get as much of a benefit, the Shadow Priest is getting a crap ton.

    R.I.P. YARG

  9. #9
    Awesome post. Thank you.

  10. #10
    dont mean to be a nay sayer... but why didn't the list include other warlocks?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Glnger View Post
    dont mean to be a nay sayer... but why didn't the list include other warlocks?
    The 3% haste stacks when 2 warlocks cast it on each other.
    The DoT / HoT debuff does not stack, meaning you will get 9% increased DoT / HoT time and not the 18% we'd like. If it did stack, we'd only cast it on other Warlocks.

    Doomhammer EU

  12. #12
    Mechagnome Galdur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Þrúðheimr
    Posts
    504
    you left out sub rogues wich im preaty sure they rank even higher than spriest for YOUR buff uptime

    Edit: Also combat rogues?
    Combat has gone back to the good ol days of keep snd up and evis your head of with a marginal dps loss than keeping rupt and and rs in the rotation so I wouldnt rank em as high
    Last edited by Galdur; 2010-12-17 at 12:49 PM.

  13. #13
    Bloodsail Admiral
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    1,248
    Quote Originally Posted by gherkin View Post
    Two things:
    1) Make sure this priest is putting up all his dots - remember that as affliction you don't use all your dots on a trash mob, Shadow Priests do the same (Survival hunters just blow everything). I will try to come up with a "5 man friendly" version of this, but it won't be anything close to 100% accurate.

    2) Crit Rate makes all the difference in the world. Low crit = lower than expected numbers. Basically, you want to look at how much crit someone has - if its 24% or more, the above numbers apply. If it's sub-20%, you might want to consider the next person in the list. Just remember that while you may not get as much of a benefit, the Shadow Priest is getting a crap ton.
    I was talking purely raiding nothing to do with 5 mans. In blue gear shadow priests do/will have less than 20% crit raid buffed unless they stack it which isnt a good idea. The priest has had great uptime of his own dots so yes i'm sure he has been applying them (3 dots and mind flay I thought would have been great uptime for DI). I have been testing these purely as destro, sorry for not specifying. It varies from raid group, but I have found it more beneficial on the Surv Hunter (with current numbers) than the Shadow Priest. Current gear is a indirect statement of low caster crit rating, with BiS gear crit rating rises a massive amount. This was my point in my first post, people shouldnt just see your numbers and instantly apply DI to SP's because thats the thing to do at BiS. You have to remember, for some people BiS isn't that easy to get.

    Edit: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=5645&e=6061

    Silvia - Survival hunter
    Ninneh - Shadow Priest

    I had DI on SH other lock had DI on SP
    Last edited by Geomatician; 2010-12-17 at 01:13 PM.

  14. #14
    Field Marshal
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Leeds, England
    Posts
    81
    Excellent work here - Many thanks to you for your hard work

  15. #15
    just from my own experiences, survival hunters should be much higher on that list. Maybe the one I run with has a crazy high crit rate, but I get a near 100% uptown, higher than our shadowpriest even (though he could be bad..lol)

  16. #16
    Bloodsail Admiral
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    1,248
    The numbers in the OP are based on BiS T11 gear for everyone, the numbers would be very different right now in greens/blues/purple.

  17. #17
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    252
    The issue of who provides the Warlock the best benefit is a valid concern and warrants some debate and discussion as everyone should be knowledgeable of their class mechanics, how they work, and what ways can you maximize your DPS output. However, as the OP says, you should be concerned with the betterment of the raid's overall DPS and less concerned with your personal best. I realize this is a tough pill to swallow, but I think any Warlock who chooses to ignore the simple fact that the highest overall raid DPS increase is a Shadow Priest, should attempt to explain to their raid leader why they are sacrificing this potential gain for what will be a marginal increase on their own behalf. I just don't see a convincing argument being able to be made here. This should be especially true on lesser progressed guilds who are fighting enrage-timers and whatnot, and also true in higher-level guilds who have intelligent discussions about this very matter.

    If a re-run of the information shows different class results at entry level gear then that is all well in good and I will stick by those numbers and not stick fingers in my ears to ignore them. However, I think its a better idea to run for future results because as gear levels progress beyond the T11 BIS point, the results will not change greatly over-time. This is my assumption based purely off of simple stat modifying through simcraft and is not 100% accurate, but I feel it has validity and will stand up to the test of time.

  18. #18
    Bloodsail Admiral
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    1,248
    Running numbers for the future is awesome except that its the present that matters. By the time BiS gear is obtained by the vast majority of people everything should be on farm except maybe Nefarian heroic. Its progression raiding where enrage timers etc. are an issue therefore the progression of any content is where the information is most vital and progressing in BiS gear will almost never ever be done. So what use is that information aside from giving direction for T12 content.

    I think it was a fantastic post and is something people should really consider. However, if you do something like this and then say to people "you should be using this even when not in BiS gear" its not going to give them the max rdps increase (or atleast I very much doubt).

    I dont really want to put Gherkin's work down because its an excellent piece of information, but it would be much more helpful to offer the equivalent numbers in BiS pre-raiding gear for pure progression aid. Whether he wants to do it or not its up to him, but warlocks reading this information might be mislead and actually end up nerfing rdps in progress raids (I really dont mind if i'm wrong but it would be nice to see these numbers nonetheless). It might be too much work for Gherkin to do so I fully understand you not wanting to.

    TL;DR very well done but it would be more beneficial if the numbers are different to offer pre-raiding BiS numbers aswell.

  19. #19
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    252
    Quote Originally Posted by Geomatician View Post
    Running numbers for the future is awesome except that its the present that matters. By the time BiS gear is obtained by the vast majority of people everything should be on farm except maybe Nefarian heroic. Its progression raiding where enrage timers etc. are an issue therefore the progression of any content is where the information is most vital and progressing in BiS gear will almost never ever be done. So what use is that information aside from giving direction for T12 content.

    I think it was a fantastic post and is something people should really consider. However, if you do something like this and then say to people "you should be using this even when not in BiS gear" its not going to give them the max rdps increase (or atleast I very much doubt).

    I dont really want to put Gherkin's work down because its an excellent piece of information, but it would be much more helpful to offer the equivalent numbers in BiS pre-raiding gear for pure progression aid. Whether he wants to do it or not its up to him, but warlocks reading this information might be mislead and actually end up nerfing rdps in progress raids (I really dont mind if i'm wrong but it would be nice to see these numbers nonetheless). It might be too much work for Gherkin to do so I fully understand you not wanting to.

    TL;DR very well done but it would be more beneficial if the numbers are different to offer pre-raiding BiS numbers aswell.
    That is a fair assessment, I will give you that. However, I feel the not only the math is proven here, but it is also based on solid logic as well. The end results are a factor of probability so it is safe to say we will not see these results 100% of the time but are a damn good best estimate for most situations. However, when you have a class whose DOTs make up 74% of their DPS, even with a variable up-time on the Warlock for the time being, I cannot see how a consistent 9% increase to one warlock's DOTs could outweigh the gain seen on giving it to a Shadow Priest versus a Hunter or perhaps another potential 100% up-time class (for now). Simple math could show it, but the true probability outcomes would be the important results.

    Unfortunately, the mathematics behind calculating such outcomes becomes very difficult as they are based in large part by probability. However, the logic is sound enough that I think you can make that inference from the data presented, and the knowledge of the class mechanics out there. Again, you are right about how maybe its not to be 100% trusted at the time being due to low crit chances around the board. I just don't agree with the overall position you have.

  20. #20

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •