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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuni Zyrekai View Post
    I don't PVP worth crap, sorry.
    Made my day! : )

    ---------- Post added 2011-04-03 at 11:05 PM ----------

    Did they remove the Frostbolt buff?

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/2356431

    Or why is this line in black?

  2. #182
    I have a random question I thought I'd throw in here.

    Given that after reaching the crit soft cap we're gearing mostly towards haste and not mastery now, coupled with furthur buffs to icelance+FOF.. I will give you a scenario and I'm interested to see your response:

    Assume DF on CD. You have a BF proc and a single FOF proc. Do you believe you'd have higher DPS by (A) utilising each individually (throw an icelance then use FFB) or (B) by straight away using FFB to benefit and use up both procs then continue Frostbolting?

    I am interested because they are furthur buffing the damage of Icelance+FOF so wondered maybe if it's actually more beneficial to use BF procs on their own and save all delicious FOF procs for icelance and DF only.

  3. #183
    I'm a lvl 83 mage , i have dual talents, frost and fire.
    My question is ther a simple way to play and have fun and do nothing but questing
    I'm not interested in raids and dungeons.I play wow to have fun and relax not to make it a job, hell i retired 10 years ago. I was hopeing to get some sort of rotation to play. I know a mage is more complicated than death knight or other bashers. I need a little help to go in the right direction.

  4. #184

    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by zackkaufen View Post
    I have a random question I thought I'd throw in here.

    Given that after reaching the crit soft cap we're gearing mostly towards haste and not mastery now, coupled with furthur buffs to icelance+FOF.. I will give you a scenario and I'm interested to see your response:

    Assume DF on CD. You have a BF proc and a single FOF proc. Do you believe you'd have higher DPS by (A) utilising each individually (throw an icelance then use FFB) or (B) by straight away using FFB to benefit and use up both procs then continue Frostbolting?

    I am interested because they are furthur buffing the damage of Icelance+FOF so wondered maybe if it's actually more beneficial to use BF procs on their own and save all delicious FOF procs for icelance and DF only.
    I was just meaning to ask this same question. Even having 2 FoF and BF, would you want to cast 2 IL and then the BF.

  5. #185
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    If you have a FoF and BF procc, you cast both, because BF then benefits from FoF and Mastery in addition it triples your critical strike chance.

    I´m sorry 4 my unexercised english.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by citizenpete View Post
    If you have a FoF and BF procc, you cast both, because BF then benefits from FoF and Mastery in addition it triples your critical strike chance.

    I´m sorry 4 my unexercised english.
    I was just unsure if the FoFBF did more damage than a single IL and BF

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by citizenpete View Post
    Did they remove the Frostbolt buff?

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/2356431

    Or why is this line in black?
    The code seems to show someone just missed putting a colour value in as there's no strike through. The frostbolt set is 0,0,0 and any other changes are 255,0,0. It just seems they missed it.

    Quote Originally Posted by FYSthunderskeet View Post
    I was just unsure if the FoFBF did more damage than a single IL and BF
    It is a good question actually. My gut feeling says BF with or without FoF will beat out saving it for when you have no FoF charges, but I'll check.

    ---------- Post added 2011-04-04 at 12:18 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by nightstakar View Post
    I'm a lvl 83 mage , i have dual talents, frost and fire.
    My question is ther a simple way to play and have fun and do nothing but questing
    I'm not interested in raids and dungeons.I play wow to have fun and relax not to make it a job, hell i retired 10 years ago. I was hopeing to get some sort of rotation to play. I know a mage is more complicated than death knight or other bashers. I need a little help to go in the right direction.
    You've gotten to 83 without much issue, there's not much we can say if you're just going to quest as mobs don't hit that hard and you can usually survive pulling a few of them. Freeze the mob as much as possible, get as many shatters into it and you can kill most things. Specifics will always change based on what cooldowns you have available to you at the current time, how far the mob is, if you screwed up and pulled something else, if it's an elite, if it can be stunned, the list goes on. There's no real rotation for soloing. Whatever can kill the mob while you take the least amount of damage is usually best.

    ---------- Post added 2011-04-04 at 12:23 PM ----------



    Having simulated BF always alone or BF regardless of procs, BF alone is worse by about 300 DPS with PTR changes. Continue to use it whenever it pops up, regardless of FoF.
    Last edited by Kuni Zyrekai; 2011-04-04 at 07:23 PM.

  8. #188
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    I`ve tested it tonight and the result really surprised me. Now I´m ranked #1 (Frost Mages) by using BF whenever its ready Oo

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/5z9rw...d/?s=731&e=982

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by FYSthunderskeet View Post
    I was just unsure if the FoFBF did more damage than a single IL and BF
    FoFBF does less damage than IL + BF, but it only requires 1 global as opposed to 2. When you factor in the opportunity cost of that second global it's a DPS increase to cast the FoFBF and resume your rotation.

  10. #190
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    I think the discussion is about "waiting for FoF if you have a BF procc, or not". If you have FoF and BF up, then enjoy casting FBFoFBF ^^

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by citizenpete View Post
    I think the discussion is about "waiting for FoF if you have a BF procc, or not". If you have FoF and BF up, then enjoy casting FBFoFBF ^^
    Personally, I wasn't wondering about saving BF and waiting for FoF...I hate seeing BF refresh and go unused while waiting for FoF. I was just wondering about the scenario of having either 1/2 FoF and BF up, and if I should use up all FoF with IL and then cast FFB.

    Garganchewin's statement of "FoFBF does less damage than IL + BF" is what I was thinking and why I thought IL + BF was better than FoFBF, but I failed to realize that it does only require 1 GCD. I am by no means an expert on theroycrafting, but I suppose it makes sense that the extra GCD along with possibly criting FFB and leaving an Ignite DOT would be a DPS increase.

    Any more thoughts on this or is the above the consensus?
    Last edited by FYSthunderskeet; 2011-04-05 at 12:28 AM.

  12. #192
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    Well i don´t understand why do you call it "wasting". For example

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/5z9rw...?s=3268&e=3597

    Avg. FFB Hit: 12339.5
    Avg. FFB Crit: 32241.0

    In my case 30.61% Crit Raidbuffed 91.83% when casting with FoF is up.

    Lets take my numbers for an another example:

    Avg Crit FFB 32241.0 IL 25538.1 FB 24440.8 = 82219.9 dmg with 1 cooldown!

    So i think FBFoFBF does more dmg with less cooldowns.

    I think I will still wait for an FoF procc in future, but only waiting 4 - 5 seconds for it.
    Last edited by citizenpete; 2011-04-05 at 01:37 AM.

  13. #193
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    Hey Kuni, i need your advice. My boss pull looks as follows:

    According to directions of your guide, i cast mirrors and pre-potion on the pull.

    Then,

    Frostfire orb
    Elemental's freeze
    Icy veins
    Deep freeze
    Cold snap
    Deep freeze
    Frostfire orb
    Frostbolt (Early Frost)
    Berserking

    Starting Rotation

    Now here is my problem. Haste raid buffed: 15.55% + 10% T114p bonus + 20 % Icy veins + 20% Berserking = around 65% haste during 10 seconds at the beginning. 20 seconds during bloodlust by using icy veins and another potion with about 75% haste (early frost not included). Is that a waste of 15 resp. 25% haste due to 50% global cooldown?

    I´m pretty confused : ) Thanks in advance!

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by citizenpete View Post
    Now here is my problem. Haste raid buffed: 15.55% + 10% T114p bonus + 20 % Icy veins + 20% Berserking = around 65% haste during 10 seconds at the beginning. 20 seconds during bloodlust by using icy veins and another potion with about 75% haste (early frost not included). Is that a waste of 15 resp. 25% haste due to 50% global cooldown?

    I´m pretty confused : ) Thanks in advance!
    Realize that the haste soft cap of 50% for GCD only effects the things that use the GCD as a cast restriction, instant cast spells. Frostbolt still benefits far past the GCD's haste limit. I've played with staggering cooldowns and stacking them in the simulator, it's something I've been pretty interested in. Pushing it to stack them is usually a very very slight DPS loss in BiS gear but it seems about equal in my gear. The DPS loss at BiS is under 70 on average though. So I personally think it's a design choice, do you want frostbolt exceedingly fast for short time, or moderately fast for longer.

  15. #195
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    Thank you for your quick reply. I really thought only Early Frost is able to pass the 50% border. Something else that I've learned. : )
    Well, the idea was to take full advantage of both 1600 Int potions with 2 Frostfire orbs and hopefully a lot of FoF and BF proccs. The higher my Gear (360 atm), the more haste i stack, because Simcraft told me to do. I really thought "Hum, lets get some more mastery to fix those burst situations" but the overall DPS lost was to high (according to simcarft).
    To be honest i really like those bursts and watching my recount with 40k+ DPS for a few seconds. If I understand aright there is not much DPS loss, so everything will remain unaffected for me.

    *Edit* Found something interessting on simulationcraft.org: Action Priority F: berserking,if=buff.icy_veins.down&buff.bloodlust.down

    Seems like Simcraft doesn´t share my preference/your opinion. Any thoughts?
    Last edited by citizenpete; 2011-04-13 at 12:28 AM.

  16. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by citizenpete View Post
    Thank you for your quick reply. I really thought only Early Frost is able to pass the 50% border. Something else that I've learned. : )
    Well, the idea was to take full advantage of both 1600 Int potions with 2 Frostfire orbs and hopefully a lot of FoF and BF proccs. The higher my Gear (360 atm), the more haste i stack, because Simcraft told me to do. I really thought "Hum, lets get some more mastery to fix those burst situations" but the overall DPS lost was to high (according to simcarft).
    To be honest i really like those bursts and watching my recount with 40k+ DPS for a few seconds. If I understand aright there is not much DPS loss, so everything will remain unaffected for me.

    *Edit* Found something interessting on simulationcraft.org: Action Priority F: berserking,if=buff.icy_veins.down&buff.bloodlust.down

    Seems like Simcraft doesn´t share my preference/your opinion. Any thoughts?
    Early frost lets frostbolt dip to a 0.8s GCD but 50% haste on frostbolt isn't 1.0s cast. 50% limit is only for 1.5 second casts or GCD, if you've got a longer cast time then 50% is a different gain.

    The reason it dips that low is if you somehow manage enough haste cooldowns and such, while early frost is active, and while you have some instant you want to cast after, it doesn't let you cast in 0.8 seconds but force you to wait 0.2s and not able to precast the instant. It just lets you precast the instant regardless of haste.

    Remove &buff.bloodlust.down to test it without for your own gear. You'll have to do the same to bloodlust, remove icy veins.down as well. It's a fairly small loss as I said, but for my gear personally, it works out about the same when running the rest of my modified set.

    ... Which I should really find and move to the new build...

    Edit: For information, 50% haste on frostbolt without EF up is 1.33s. EF drops that to 0.933. As if I recall it was applied before haste, not after.
    Last edited by Kuni Zyrekai; 2011-04-13 at 02:03 AM.

  17. #197
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    Well i always knew gcd = 1 sec and early frost is lowering gcd to 0.8 seconds. Haste is calculated after the early frost reduction, wich means for me "the more haste, the less benefit from early frost". Every haste on Frostbolt (without early frost) beyond 1 second is devalued (as you`ve mentioned before).
    And now the biggest news for me 50% on Frostbolt aren´t 50% in a mathematical world : D Just installed "Quartz Castbar Addon" and i don´t believe in the gods of azeroth anymore : D From the beginning i really thought 25% on 2 seconds = 0.5 second casttime reduction. My whole calculations are wrong and worth crap : / Damn!

    Do you have any numbers from blizzard or established wording to share? I really want to start a proper calculation : )

  18. #198
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    Spell Haste %=(Haste Rating/128.125)

    Casting Time= Base Casting Time/(1+(Spell Haste%/100))

    So for your example of 25%:

    2 / (1 + (25 / 100)) = 1.6s on frostbolt's default 2 seconds
    1.5 / (1 + (25 / 100)) = 1.2 on the GCD.

  19. #199
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    That`s why your thread is my first shelter. Just a small additional question.

    In your first line you`ve stated Spell Haste %=(Haste Rating/128.125). So my actual casting time without any cooldowns like icy veins must be:

    2 / (1 + (25.55 / 128.125) = 1.668s on frostbolt`s default and 1.251s GCD, right?

    But "Quartz" shows me 1.56s casting time with 15,55% raid buffed + 10% T11 4pb

  20. #200
    I'm just curious if you've ever had SimCraft give you back simulations where it's basically having you chain cast FFB? I'm not exactly sure why this happened. I haven't been tinkering around with the settings or anything, but since I got DMC: Volcano and now my 2 piece T11, it often gives me parses where ~40% of my damage is FFB instead of FB.

    If someone wants to check out my armory link in case someone wants to test it and see if it's just me, my character is Kylnor on Alleria. Unfortunately MMO won't let me post links yet

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