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  1. #601
    Quote Originally Posted by Swizzle View Post
    I'll run a sim of it using full BiS T12 gear. Perhaps the 4-piece bonus puts it ahead of 2% Haste, who knows?

    Firepower: 38,065 DPS
    NWP: 38,259 DPS

    You lose 4 FrB per fight with Firepower and your FFB/FFO deal about 600 more damage (less than 100 more damage per FFO tick). Though, SimCraft might be bugged since I saw no FFO explosions from the second part of the Firepower talent, so the results might not be 100% accurate until I get some form of confirmation that FFO is not meant to explode with Firepower.

    Confirmed that SimCraft has FFO exploding with 3/3 Firepower but not exploding at 2/3 Firepower with 50,000 iterations. Seems like either the worst luck in the planet or a coding bug?
    So it might actually be viable? Needs real testing.

  2. #602
    Quote Originally Posted by Howdyho View Post
    So it might actually be viable? Needs real testing.
    I am interested in this too. If Fire Power also increases FFBs damage it might be worth something?
    Last edited by zackkaufen; 2011-07-23 at 04:14 PM.

  3. #603
    Warchief Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zackkaufen View Post
    I am interested in this too. If Fire Power also increases FFBs damage it might be worth something?
    It does increase FFB. My computer refuses to launch SimC of any version these days, so I'll wait on someone else to check. I still don't think it's enough of an increase to trump netherwind presence, but it could be a decent alternative. My issue is, the explosion is fairly damned weak. If you were attempting it for AOE increase, I'm not sure it would be worth it.

  4. #604
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuni Zyrekai View Post
    It does increase FFB. My computer refuses to launch SimC of any version these days, so I'll wait on someone else to check. I still don't think it's enough of an increase to trump netherwind presence, but it could be a decent alternative. My issue is, the explosion is fairly damned weak. If you were attempting it for AOE increase, I'm not sure it would be worth it.
    Would the explosion proc fingers of frost as well by the way? My conserns are that elitist jerks don't really mention the talent and I've never seen it mentioned in any calculations at all.
    Last edited by Clubsoda; 2011-07-23 at 10:40 PM.

  5. #605
    Warchief Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howdyho View Post
    Would the explosion proc fingers of frost as well by the way?
    No, the explosion is purely fire damage.

  6. #606
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuni Zyrekai View Post
    It does increase FFB. My computer refuses to launch SimC of any version these days, so I'll wait on someone else to check. I still don't think it's enough of an increase to trump netherwind presence, but it could be a decent alternative. My issue is, the explosion is fairly damned weak. If you were attempting it for AOE increase, I'm not sure it would be worth it.
    Well, my problem is that an Arcane spec with 2/3 Firepower has at least 4 explosions over the course of a fight using 25,000 iterations yet a Frost spec with 2/3 Firepower has 0. It may be terrible luck but it might be a coding bug with SimCraft to not register the explosion for Frost unless 3/3 Firepower is present. As you can see above, the difference is 194 DPS and it might be possible for Firepower to make that up if the explosion was simming properly.

  7. #607
    Warchief Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swizzle View Post
    Well, my problem is that an Arcane spec with 2/3 Firepower has at least 4 explosions over the course of a fight using 25,000 iterations yet a Frost spec with 2/3 Firepower has 0. It may be terrible luck but it might be a coding bug with SimCraft to not register the explosion for Frost unless 3/3 Firepower is present. As you can see above, the difference is 194 DPS and it might be possible for Firepower to make that up if the explosion was simming properly.
    Can you not just add a third point in SimC to firepower while testing with 3/3 ignite? I don't recall it having a total talent point check. Admittedly it would be skewed a bit, but it would give an approximation.

  8. #608
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuni Zyrekai View Post
    Can you not just add a third point in SimC to firepower while testing with 3/3 ignite? I don't recall it having a total talent point check. Admittedly it would be skewed a bit, but it would give an approximation.
    I don't think so, or at least I'm not sure. I know it looks for talent builds from the Import materials be it CharDev, Armory, RAWR, or its own BiS set-ups using CharDev. Although, that being said, it would still skew results since it would also increase FFB and FFO damage by an additional 1%.

  9. #609
    Warchief Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swizzle View Post
    I don't think so, or at least I'm not sure. I know it looks for talent builds from the Import materials be it CharDev, Armory, RAWR, or its own BiS set-ups using CharDev. Although, that being said, it would still skew results since it would also increase FFB and FFO damage by an additional 1%.
    True enough, I hadn't considered the damage increase portion for that type of test. I guess we'll have to wait until they fix it. Anyone sent in a ticket yet?

  10. #610
    So I fooled around with the latest simcraft version and I couldn't get evocation as a dps increase over armor switching. Switching was a 168 dps increase over casting evocation while running 25k iterations.

    It'll probably be easier in a real raiding situation if you glyph evocation and use it as a heal which allows for 100% molten armor uptime.
    It's the internet. You never know if people are either sarcastic or just bad.

  11. #611
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    Quote Originally Posted by takolin View Post
    So I fooled around with the latest simcraft version and I couldn't get evocation as a dps increase over armor switching. Switching was a 168 dps increase over casting evocation while running 25k iterations.

    It'll probably be easier in a real raiding situation if you glyph evocation and use it as a heal which allows for 100% molten armor uptime.
    Are you using the officially released version? Or are you using the root/dev version? Since the last official release is still showing a July 9th release date and doesn't have the evocation change associated with that.

  12. #612
    Quote Originally Posted by Hinalover View Post
    Are you using the officially released version? Or are you using the root/dev version? Since the last official release is still showing a July 9th release date and doesn't have the evocation change associated with that.
    I see, well then you can ignore my previous statement.
    It's the internet. You never know if people are either sarcastic or just bad.

  13. #613
    I'M DOING IT! Going frost for at least next week, will probably stay as it for the rest of this tier if it works with my 10m group well (Rag was getting annoying as Arcane). But Rawr is telling me to use the Moonwell Chalice and DMC:V over reg TM/BoER/HoI. Don't think BoER or HoI are that good, but wondering MWC vs reg TM... Alas, I will SimCraft it later, time for some Borderlands

    EDIT: Just simmed it on my toon in my current gear, with the stat weightings it provided: TM comes out to about 1627.9 dps and MWC is about 1554.3 dps if I did the math right, so I guess TM it is for me. I'll run another sim tomorrow with MWC equipped and compare the dps to the TM sim (24957 DPSe) too.
    Last edited by Potato Bus; 2011-07-25 at 09:39 AM.

  14. #614
    Warchief Hinalover's Avatar
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    Just as quick heads up. I'm testing out the latest SimC with the evocation change and a few things to point out while I continue my work.
    a) Evocation IS a better option than just switching to Mage Armor. Initial testing is showing to evo between 25-30%. Trying to nail down the numbers
    b) Molten Armor glyph is NOT recommended. FrB, FFB, and Deep Freeze are still your top glyphs.

  15. #615
    SimCraft is still not allowing me to have FFO explode unless I put 3 points into the talent. Judging by the fact that it grants Arcane approx. 100 DPS and the gap between 2/3 Firepower and 2/3 NWP is approx. 200 DPS without the explosion, I'd say it's safe to assume that Firepower is worse than NWP for Frost.

  16. #616
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    Hey Hinalover! I´m using pot + mana gem + 1 tick manacake on the pull, evo with 2 - 4 ticks 60 - 90 seconds later. Mana gems on cooldown (second gem if I´m getting full benefit). Second evo is ready at 300 - 350 seconds. At this juncture, evo ticks depends on expected remaining fight duration. On Ragnaros I´m switching to mage armor (running and transiton phases) and using evo right before the burn/execution phase and switch back to molton.

    Is there any way to implement my personal mana managment behavior? Do you have any suggestions?

  17. #617
    Warchief Hinalover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by citizenpete View Post
    Hey Hinalover! I´m using pot + mana gem + 1 tick manacake on the pull, evo with 2 - 4 ticks 60 - 90 seconds later. Mana gems on cooldown (second gem if I´m getting full benefit). Second evo is ready at 300 - 350 seconds. At this juncture, evo ticks depends on expected remaining fight duration. On Ragnaros I´m switching to mage armor (running and transiton phases) and using evo right before the burn/execution phase and switch back to molton.

    Is there any way to implement my personal mana managment behavior? Do you have any suggestions?
    Um...I'm not 100% sure how. I would have to spend some time figuring out the priority system your using. But yea the evocation bit greatly depends on how long the fight is. I know they recently updated the SimC priority system to use Evocation but only during Heroism or Icy Veins.

    Just as a side note, yes Frost does competitive damage. In mostly Arcane reforging (our guild getting Heroic Shannox and I was on Rageface/Riplimb slowing bitch duty so I had to go Arcane), I pulled 27.4k dps as frost with T11 and T12 Valor/Molten Front gear for off-pieces (still working on getting 4-piece and at the rate I'm going it's going to be another 2 weeks).

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/4...=3018#Delritha

    I say not too bad at all

    Later tonight, I got a 4th place overall ranking on Occu'thar 25 as frost with nearly 29k dps.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=9816#Delritha

    Man was I on cloud 9 when I saw those parses

  18. #618
    Quote Originally Posted by Hinalover View Post
    Later tonight, I got a 4th place overall ranking on Occu'thar 25 as frost with nearly 29k dps.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=9816#Delritha

    Man was I on cloud 9 when I saw those parses
    Very nice. I am currently ranked 10th on Occu'thar, without Cold Snap usage as .. I kinda overaggroed on our first attempt and breathed the raid .. :<

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...5N/Frost_Mage/

  19. #619
    Nice parses guys. Just thought I'd update since I switched to frost for this week: Ranked on all 5 fights I was frost (Fire for Alys, working Rag tomorrow)

    Not my best performance but... what are you 10m frost mages doing lol? Still surprised I ranked with these numbers...

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-yyk2y4imb7jde1hm/

    EDIT: If you wanna see something funny, check our Alys parse... Half the raid died during 2nd air phase so the Spriest and I got all serious, popped CDs and owned that bitch before the 2nd tornado phase. By the skin of our teeth got a new meaning tonight

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=7763&e=8210
    Last edited by Potato Bus; 2011-07-27 at 09:53 AM.

  20. #620
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    My mage is my 4th alt...he's in full 359, but i enjoy playing him. Problem is i never liked fire, hate arcane, but love frost. Is it viable for me to switch back to frost?

    I'm gonna link my armory. Please remember its my fourth alt and hadn't until this point really given a flying fuck about making sure i've min-maxed anything. I'd like to start now.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...drinath/simple

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