1. #1161
    Immortal Bombkirby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by verdamte View Post
    If i understand it right - bf on fof is more of a "clean profile" suggestion - focus the spec around fof`s, instead of having the feel of two different rotations going, one centered around dumping fof`s and another around proccing bf`s with bombs.
    Having more spells on fof gives a little bit of decision making, that is, if they are worth casting and not just a different colored instant. 2 spells on fof dosnt sound hugely different - but as a design direction ( fof charges as a currency, sort of) there could be something to get there.

    The suggestion with fof being a debuff on the target sounds to me like something they at least should try out for a build - it could be one of those simple to understand, easy to learn but hard to max out playstyles, if it mimics pvp/lesser mobs at least.
    Thats a good way to put it. I felt like I was fumbling between Bombs/Brain Freeze and dumping Ice Lance ASAP while testing it out in TotJS.

  2. #1162
    Bloodsail Admiral Nathyiel's Avatar
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    I have made some testing of BF proc with all bomb. Testing is limited because we can have addon like recount/skada to show up-time, damage, etc.

    Each bomb have a small chance to proc FoF.
    The secondary of the bomb don't proc BF nor FoF.
    Glyphed Fireblast is bugged : Frost Bomb don't proc anything if it explode early, spread Living Bomb don't seems to proc, etc.

    Proc chance:
    • Frost bomb - 100%, guaranteed but only 1 proc
    • Living bomb - ~25% per tick, chance to have more than one proc (2 or 3) or no proc at all
    • Nether Tempest - ~10% per tick, chance to have more than one proc (2 or 3) or no proc at all
    note: % isn't accurate because of limited testing and lack of addon to monitor it exactly.

    Haste effect:
    • Frost bomb scale perfectly with haste: at 15%, 1.3s cast and 8.7s cooldown. The explosion is always at 50% cooldown (4.35s with 15% haste)
    • Living Bomb and Nether Tempest seems to gain more tick with haste. I have tested for 12.5% and 17.5%.
    Last edited by Nathyiel; 2012-04-18 at 01:23 PM.

  3. #1163
    I'd imagine all three bombs have an average of 1 proc per cast unhasted to make them roughly equal, so LB should indeed be 25%, while NT should be around 8.333...%.

  4. #1164
    Bloodsail Admiral Nathyiel's Avatar
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    Globally, you have 100% (even more) proc's chance for each bomb. But there's always a lot of random in the proc's chance.

    Take Living Bomb, you have 4x 25% = 100% proc's chance but you can have a bomb without a proc and the following with 3 procs.

    If you want a proc every 10s, choose Frost Bomb. But with Hast, it will be difficult to use it correctly because of the more frequent refresh. It can be a problem in the futur.
    If you want a proc more random, choose Living Bomb or Nether Tempest

  5. #1165
    Warchief Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nathyiel View Post
    Testing is limited because we can have addon like recount/skada to show up-time, damage, etc.
    /combatlog and dump it on world of logs to dissect.

    Something I'm mildly curious about is BF proc chance on LB/NT. We know they're scaled at 25%/10% without haste, this was found by Lhiv as well. Will the proc chance scale downwards with more ticks to keep it somewhat constant with 1 proc/bomb or will it increase it?

  6. #1166
    Bloodsail Admiral Nathyiel's Avatar
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    It's clearly a proc's chance per tick so more tick means more chance to proc's but I can't confirm it before next week.

    And it's a pretty good idea to use world of log. we just have to make sure there's no incompatibility because of MoP (I think it will). But Excel is my friend if I have some time.

  7. #1167
    I really REALLY hope Frost becomes viable for PvE, I think it may very well have been my fave dps spec in Cata.

    Heres hoping!
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    [12:07:45] <+Radux> i think Bibi should post a super passive agressive message in there. like "OH NO LOVE FOR BIBI. I SEE HOW IT IS. YOU'RE WELCOME FOR CREATING THE SITE. CARRY ON."

    OH NO LOVE FOR BIBI. I SEE HOW IT IS. YOU'RE WELCOME FOR CREATING THE SITE. CARRY ON.

  8. #1168
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathyiel View Post
    Globally, you have 100% (even more) proc's chance for each bomb. But there's always a lot of random in the proc's chance.

    Take Living Bomb, you have 4x 25% = 100% proc's chance but you can have a bomb without a proc and the following with 3 procs.

    If you want a proc every 10s, choose Frost Bomb. But with Hast, it will be difficult to use it correctly because of the more frequent refresh. It can be a problem in the futur.
    If you want a proc more random, choose Living Bomb or Nether Tempest
    Er... yes? Not sure what you're trying to get at here. Though Frost Bomb is a proc every ~11.5 seconds, not every 10.

    I have to question your claim that the bombs can proc FoF though. I just spend some time casting nothing but Nether Tempest and didn't get a single FoF proc from it, which means either a) the proc chance is exceedingly low(so why bother adding one on a spell we cast once every 12 seconds) or b) it doesn't proc FoF and you gained your procs from a different source, like BF'd FFBs(which can proc FoF in MoP).


    If NT really has a 10% chance, that would mean it generates significantly more procs than the other two(a full 20% more, nothing to scoff at), which would make it the clearly superior choice for single target(which it already is best at, anyway), so i find that somewhat unlikely, and if it is indeed the case, probably needs to be changed.

  9. #1169
    Warchief Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    If NT really has a 10% chance, that would mean it generates significantly more procs than the other two(a full 20% more, nothing to scoff at), which would make it the clearly superior choice for single target(which it already is best at, anyway), so i find that somewhat unlikely, and if it is indeed the case, probably needs to be changed.
    10% was the initial finding. Also remember it's balanced around frost bomb's 100%, yet 10 second cycle. NT without haste being 12 ticks for 12 seconds. 10% would give it on average the same proc rate in the long run per frost bomb duration. This also makes me question if BF can proc from LB's explosion specifically, to even out the proc rate. Or if LB is actually 30%/tick. When the shit going on over here is over and if no one's done it yet, I'll look into it.

    Also I seem to recall discussion about a bug with LB proccing FoF on some rare chance. This should be discounted as a bug, as I've only heard it reported from LB, and that's completely nonsensical.
    Last edited by Kuni Zyrekai; 2012-04-18 at 05:06 PM.

  10. #1170
    You're forgetting that Frost Bomb's CD doesn't start until after the cast is finished, so it's actually 11.5 seconds.

    I hope they just make it 12s CD and instant... it's just confusing the way it is now, not to mention that it's the only of the three spells you can't cast while moving for no good reason.

  11. #1171
    Field Marshal Bareback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuni zyrekai View Post
    i essentially one shot my friend for well over her max health, through the base 30% damage reduction without pvp power stat by having a frozen frost bomb, frostbolt, and fof ice lance land in the same millisecond.
    that was crap. ]:<

  12. #1172
    Warchief Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bareback View Post
    that was crap. ]:<
    /cookie

    Still got the screenshot?

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-18 at 12:10 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    You're forgetting that Frost Bomb's CD doesn't start until after the cast is finished, so it's actually 11.5 seconds.

    I hope they just make it 12s CD and instant... it's just confusing the way it is now, not to mention that it's the only of the three spells you can't cast while moving for no good reason.
    This is true, I didn't account for that. Hm.

  13. #1173
    Field Marshal Bareback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuni Zyrekai View Post
    /cookie

    Still got the screenshot?
    /grumble

    30k Overkill r u srs.

  14. #1174
    Epic!
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    I've reuploaded my shatter cap calculator on a new place for those who used it ;p
    http://toprealm.fr/Shatter.html
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  15. #1175
    Warchief Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
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    Thanks Zumzumzum, appreciate it.

    Edit: Water elemental sound fix, change .wav to .ogg
    Last edited by Kuni Zyrekai; 2012-04-20 at 06:31 AM.

  16. #1176
    Wow... those datamined notes for the new build got royally messed up.
    Not that i would mind the WE's water bolt and freeze getting an additional 150% of my SP. Or Ice Lance, for that matter. Though it would cheapen the 2717(what?!?) Mastery we get from Mage armour a little.

    *cough*

    On to the more serious points:
    Brain Freeze now also counts as a FFB specific FoF, Mastery was nerfed to 1.5% per point, but now also grants the same bonus as a pure damage bonus to WE damage and FoF procs 40% less from Frozen Orb, but now can also proc at a low chance(4%) from Blizzard.

    Sounds nice so far. Bit less burst, bit more... er... not-burst. Brain not feel right, need sleep.

  17. #1177
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post

    On to the more serious points:
    Brain Freeze now also counts as a FFB specific FoF, Mastery was nerfed to 1.5% per point, but now also grants the same bonus as a pure damage bonus to WE damage and FoF procs 40% less from Frozen Orb, but now can also proc at a low chance(4%) from Blizzard.

    .
    You called it
    Not sure i like the very passive pet dmg on mastery. Whats with the"down to" 1.5 sec ffb`, only for low lvl i guess?
    The 2717 mastery is prolly equal to that amount on gear.
    Last edited by verdamte; 2012-04-25 at 03:21 AM.

  18. #1178
    Warchief Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
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    Aye, 2717 works out around 540/point. So we're looking at the same type of power drop that 80-85 had, around 5x stats for 1 percent. Likely changed because of how mastery is worded, but whatever. Stupid in my eyes can be perfect in others.

    The FFB change is most welcome though. It makes the proc feel meaty, you know shit's going down when you get it. From a playstyle point of view, I'd say we're probably done at this point. Proc rate adjustments notwithstanding, anyway. Ice lance and FFB will hit hard enough and be satisfying enough to want to press. We have our choice of DoT. Our AOE procs FoF, which also cleaves.

    New orb graphic too. Looks sexy as hell.


    Last edited by Kuni Zyrekai; 2012-04-25 at 06:18 AM.

  19. #1179
    Immortal Bombkirby's Avatar
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    How on earth did you get the full LFR set? I try every other week to nab it for mogging, but I can't win them rolls! @_@ I lost by 1 last time.

    And I can't wait to see the new frozen orb in motion. Downloading the patch right now. ^_^

  20. #1180
    Warchief Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bombkirby View Post
    How on earth did you get the full LFR set? I try every other week to nab it for mogging, but I can't win them rolls! @_@ I lost by 1 last time.

    And I can't wait to see the new frozen orb in motion. Downloading the patch right now. ^_^
    Had it for ages now. My old guild had enough conq to gear out everyone with offspecs and the paladin's third spec with most of a fourth set for an entirely different healing setup. So we ran LFR groups to get vanq pieces.

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