Kuni's Frost Mage PVE Guide (Cataclysm)

[Deleted]

Yeah the 35yrds thing is a pain in the ass sometimes, but AC is my boss in bot. I really love to benefit from the Frost Mage mobility. Hope they "fix" the 35yrds stupidity.

[nemex]

I'll have better results from BWD next week hopefully.

Logs:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/gncqzd5nia44mgw1/
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-bq5mydh3zmsvlk0m/

H Magmaw: Frost seems like it's competitive. Sadly due to our melee being terrible we never had an exposed head after 60% and therefore we never used bloodlust. Didn't really get to maximize anything I had planned on.

H Omnotron: Again, it seems competitive, but I died a minute into the encounter from a missed interrupt on Arcanotron. Hopefully better results next week.

H Maloriak: If I had to pick one fight where frost was weak on it would be this. No real AoE for the green phases, dark phases are painful; Arcane can at least do an abx4 AE spam if they want, Frost doesn't really have a good AoE option here. I guess it would be beneficial for the Dark phases to have more than 1 point in piercing chill. We haven't explored more optimal strategies with abberations, so we generally have to stop DPS and stand around for a good 45 seconds so we get 2 green phases.

H Atramedes: We had a ninja pull so my opener sucked. Otherwise I think it's pretty competitive in a normal situation. I like Frost's mobility in regards to small adjustments from disc movements. I finally got to DPS during the air phase and not be the kiting bitch, so that was nice at least.

H Chimaeron: Seems competitive. I got hit with more Caustic Slimes than any other DPS, so I probably have a strongly biased initial opinion of its effect on Frost DPS.

H Nefarian: I feel that Arcane has better burst to use in conjunction with Stolen Power timings, but Frost isn't far off. I wasn't able to test anything above a 90 stack sadly, as we didn't have much for snares in our raid comp. Pet management is also a pain during platform transitions, but bareable. Better results next week hopefully.

[Karshda]

Is it better to cast two instants in a row when you have 2 FoF charges or fit in a frostbolt between them?

[Kuni Zyrekai]

Is it better to cast two instants in a row when you have 2 FoF charges or fit in a frostbolt between them?

If you're going the route of using FoF as it comes, then both back to back if possible. In reality it shouldn't matter too much because as long as you're using all of them eventually without munching them, it'll be the same overall damage.

[Deleted]

Might be a bit early but I thought I might aswell ask.
Is there anyone who is planning to make a frost BiS list for 4.2? I've seen one for fire and arcane but none for frost. Maybe there is one already that I've missed? In that case, a link would be wonderful!

[Antueater]

@Equim
AFAIK, 4.2 Frost BiS is pretty much the same as Arcane BiS, maybe switch out SoW. But thats just an unproven thought of me.


I've got a question for the more skilled frost mages out there.
After a long period of fire raiding, with the usual switch to arcane after 4.1 hit, I now want to try Frost being my main spec. I always hear people saying, Frost > Arcane > Fire single target if you don't have SoW or full 372. As I'm sitting around 363 (armory in my sig) I wanted to ask you guys, if Frost is indeed better with my gear or should I stick with Arcane?


Additional Info:

10-mans, only mage, only one delivering 3% dmg buff

[takolin]

If you don't need replenishment, it's probably a bigger rDPS increase to stay arcane to bring the 3% damage buff.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

Might be a bit early but I thought I might aswell ask.
Is there anyone who is planning to make a frost BiS list for 4.2? I've seen one for fire and arcane but none for frost. Maybe there is one already that I've missed? In that case, a link would be wonderful!

I personally am staying out of the gear comparison department for the moment as stated earlier in the thread. My computer is fairly old and even just single spec simulations take a long time for me. Testing multiple gear sets would quite literally take forever. If someone else takes it upon themselves to at least get a starting point, I'll start digging around through the gear if I have a gut feeling something else might be better. Until then, I'm pretty sure we don't have a 4.2 BiS list yet.

10-mans, only mage, only one delivering 3% dmg buff

This is pretty much the dealbreaker. 3% damage buff will benefit the raid more than your spec will. Having said that, give it a try on a non-progression night. You might find you play it a lot better than arcane, or you might find arcane is easier for you. At which point it's a personal choice for you and a guild choice to see if you can get someone else to provide 3% damage buff. Or just go without but again, if you're in progression, you'll likely want it.

[Swizzle]

We do, since all the gear is out and there isn't much choice as to what to get. The Frost BiS list is identical to the Fire BiS list, and Arcane keeps SoW.

[Deleted]

We do, since all the gear is out and there isn't much choice as to what to get. The Frost BiS list is identical to the Fire BiS list, and Arcane keeps SoW.

Any idea about BIS trinkets then in 4.2?

[Swizzle]

Any idea about BIS trinkets then in 4.2?

Variable Pulse Lightning Capacitor and Necromantic Focus for Fire/Frost.
Variable Pulse Lightning Capacitor and Shard of Woe for Arcane.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

We do, since all the gear is out and there isn't much choice as to what to get. The Frost BiS list is identical to the Fire BiS list, and Arcane keeps SoW.

Fair enough. I had kinda figured that was the case but I hadn't actually seen anyone list it. Interesting that for once we keep all five tier pieces.

[takolin]

Fair enough. I had kinda figured that was the case but I hadn't actually seen anyone list it. Interesting that for once we keep all five tier pieces.

Ragnaros drops higher ilvl gloves so you'll gain some extra int by using those over the tier gloves which makes me think they're the better option.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

Ragnaros drops higher ilvl gloves so you'll gain some extra int by using those over the tier gloves which makes me think they're the better option.

Possible but the tier gloves are one of the few pieces with hit on them. That might beat them out.

[takolin]

Well I'm playing around with rawr a bit and at this moment I can reach 16.66% hit without the tier gloves and I haven't been optimizing fully yet.

[Brother]

I have a question regarding Firelands.
Does Frost outdps Arcane due to the nerf of AB?
And for example, if I'm the only mage in my group who brings the 3% dmg, how much dmg do I need as frost to compensate this?
I'm a little bored of arcane right now, and I feel that Frost suits my playstyle more

[Antueater]

Does Frost outdps Arcane due to the nerf of AB?

As long as we don't have any reliable sources about T12 or trinket procs, we can't make any biased decision yet. If you take the 4.2 spell changes, but use 372 gear (the BiS nowadays), arcane will still be roughly 1.5k DPS in front of frost, but still - these are only sims with Build 14288.

And for example, if I'm the only mage in my group who brings the 3% dmg, how much dmg do I need as frost to compensate this?

Let me answer this with Kuni's Words: This is pretty much the dealbreaker. 3% damage buff will benefit the raid more than your spec will. Having said that, give it a try on a non-progression night. You might find you play it a lot better than arcane, or you might find arcane is easier for you. At which point it's a personal choice for you and a guild choice to see if you can get someone else to provide 3% damage buff. Or just go without but again, if you're in progression, you'll likely want it.
Take a look at your raids DPS. If 3% of that damage is greater than your gain while playing frost, stick to arcane. Otherwise go frost, but that seems very unlikely to me.


However, noone can force you to play a spec you don't like. But keep in mind, that if you are raiding with a more serious attitude than just "LOL LETS HAVE A LOOK AT THAT BADASS WORM IN BWD AND SEE HOW WE ARE DOING", you most likely want to play the spec which benefits the raid most.

[Magicochon]

very interesting post. I didn't know that we casting FFB upon proc without FoF was a dps gain (good to know... much easier).
I have a question.
When I pop icy vein. Does it reduce my global cooldown ?
Why I'm asking this is. half of our spells are instant. So 1.5sec cast. It's quite easy to bust the "haste cap for instant" during heroisme. Just wondering if it does the same with icy vein.

If it does. Should we still stack haste over mastery when we'll reach 33.34% haste ?

[Brother]

Thanks for the answer, I think I have to force our hunter to go BM
Sadly I'am a progress raider and I want to perform as good as posible, but I don't feel that I'm doing so well with Arcane.
You might say Arcane is easy, but I almost played 4 years restodrood, jumping around and spamming HoT's, so standing still and minimizing my movement is very hard for me. Well I just have to try harder.

[Swizzle]

As long as we don't have any reliable sources about T12 or trinket procs, we can't make any biased decision yet. If you take the 4.2 spell changes, but use 372 gear (the BiS nowadays), arcane will still be roughly 1.5k DPS in front of frost, but still - these are only sims with Build 14288.




Let me answer this with Kuni's Words: This is pretty much the dealbreaker. 3% damage buff will benefit the raid more than your spec will. Having said that, give it a try on a non-progression night. You might find you play it a lot better than arcane, or you might find arcane is easier for you. At which point it's a personal choice for you and a guild choice to see if you can get someone else to provide 3% damage buff. Or just go without but again, if you're in progression, you'll likely want it.
Take a look at your raids DPS. If 3% of that damage is greater than your gain while playing frost, stick to arcane. Otherwise go frost, but that seems very unlikely to me.


However, noone can force you to play a spec you don't like. But keep in mind, that if you are raiding with a more serious attitude than just "LOL LETS HAVE A LOOK AT THAT BADASS WORM IN BWD AND SEE HOW WE ARE DOING", you most likely want to play the spec which benefits the raid most.

SimCraft actually has the trinkets modeled now. Let me run a quick comparison.