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  1. #381
    That's because you're at the "virtual" cap. 98% is damn close to 100%, so your chance of not critting is low, but it is still possible to not crit on a boss level mob.

  2. #382
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    Yes 2%, but with Int procs during the fight, i think the suppression is hardly worth mentioning.

  3. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by citizenpete View Post
    Yes 2%, but with Int procs during the fight, i think the suppression is hardly worth mentioning.
    It is since Int procs have a below 50% uptime even when combined. Never base math or functionality around procs. Hell, look at next tier as an example: no int procs on any trinkets.

  4. #384
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    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/s55xv...?s=1578&e=1843

    Fight duration: 260.7s
    All Int Procs (accumulated with 2x pots): 287.7s (110.36% uptime)
    Last edited by citizenpete; 2011-05-06 at 05:25 AM.

  5. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by citizenpete View Post
    I can't understand the whole suppression discussion.
    To put it simply boss level mobs come with a -X% chance to crit built into them.

    so if you were to come to the fight with 100% crit on paper and spam ya spells you wouldnt get 100% crit on the boss. more often you would get 97-98% (making numbers as i go along here) why blizzard has done this dont know, but talents like shatter prove this were we would expect to critically hit but in fact dont.
    Having a small crit suppression means its hard to spot.

    as for proof of what X% is? I can remember something in wrath where we had stupidly high levels of stats where it was said that melee had to get 104.8% crit and casters 102.5% how accurate that is i dont know. it was something i read once and for the life of me can not find it. i dont even know if i remember it correctly. but it seems to fit in with what others have said about suppression. Its even possible that once we move to T12 suppression will increase. ill be downloading PTR when i get home to test stuff

  6. #386
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    Wow that was pretty out of content! Please read my full post. I do understand what suppression is, but I don´t understand the discussion about it. And if you want to no why, read my whole post : )

  7. #387
    Quote Originally Posted by citizenpete View Post
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/s55xv...?s=1578&e=1843

    Fight duration: 260.7s
    All Int Procs (accumulated with 2x pots): 287.7s (110.36% uptime)
    If only they were additive...also, unless I'm mistaken: 50+60+60+72=242, not 287.7. So if you were simply chaining procs one after the other (yeah okay) you still don't have the suppression covered for the fight.

  8. #388
    Quote Originally Posted by citizenpete View Post
    Wow that was pretty out of content! Please read my full post. I do understand what suppression is, but I don´t understand the discussion about it. And if you want to no why, read my whole post : )
    I read the whole thing. I just chose to talk about what I quoted. Im not here to say you dont get it. I said what i said in regards to the discussion. that is that suppression is there. it effects the value of crit and imo based on older xpacs it could grow to more than 2-3% meaning we would need adjustments for the next Tier. With a talent like shatter its worthy of discussion.

  9. #389
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    You´ve right. Mistaken Dire Magic with an Int proc. I`m sorry. Of course I can´t chain all procs, but what I want to say is: With 33.34% I never missed a crit.

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by citizenpete View Post
    You´ve right. Mistaken Dire Magic with an Int proc. I`m sorry. Of course I can´t chain all procs, but what I want to say is: With 33.34% I never missed a crit.
    Right, I understand, but I'm just saying the chance to NOT crit at 33.34% exists and getting 34% crit, or an additional .66% alleviates any lingering doubts.

  11. #391
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    Okay, okay I surrender : ) There may be a chance to not crit at 33.34% But, if 34% really necessary, is an another matter altogether. I´m even not sure if I´m right with my "cap 33.34% with 4.1" theory.

  12. #392
    Warchief Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
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    I personally can't find any gear that produces better results. The trade-off just isn't worth it at this level of gear. T12 is likely a different story, but T11 can't do it with the available gear.

  13. #393
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuni Zyrekai View Post
    I personally can't find any gear that produces better results. The trade-off just isn't worth it at this level of gear. T12 is likely a different story, but T11 can't do it with the available gear.
    May-haps thou can get a FM, or are you already factoring it in?

  14. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swizzle View Post
    May-haps thou can get a FM, or are you already factoring it in?
    I'm factoring FM, but not DI seeing as it's near pointless to the warlock to put it on us.

  15. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuni Zyrekai View Post
    I'm factoring FM, but not DI seeing as it's near pointless to the warlock to put it on us.
    Well yeah, it also doesn't increase our cri...oh you were putting it on to get rid of some haste from gear eh? Odd that you can get to 33.34% crit without FM but not 34% crit with it.

  16. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swizzle View Post
    Well yeah, it also doesn't increase our cri...oh you were putting it on to get rid of some haste from gear eh? Odd that you can get to 33.34% crit without FM but not 34% crit with it.
    I was testing out Citizenpete's idea of hard capping all shatter related spells at 34%, not just ice lance, to see if there was a DPS gain. But the problem is that you lose too many stat points out of haste and mastery to make it work properly for this level of gear. I should have been more clear as to what I was testing in the first place.

    I'm in agreement with 34%, you're not the first to have brought this up and I managed a non-crit lance at 33.35% on a boss dummy, so I have no argument against this having seen it myself. BiS gear set was sitting around 19% anyway, so this wasn't showing up in simulations to begin with.
    Last edited by Kuni Zyrekai; 2011-05-06 at 10:11 PM.

  17. #397
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    Well, I really have a problem with the debuff especially in 10 men raids. I´ve recognized some encounters, where our warlock was fighting an another targert. In this situations I would only have 23.34% crit (28.34% with IL). If I´m going to reforge everthing like simcraft recommends to me its a ~50 DPS gain compared to my 33.34% (with molton) . It feels a little bit weird playing with 28.34%, yes I am casting faster, having slightly higher crits because of some more mastery points but, incredible as it sounds, I have more Mana with 33.34% and if I have to switch to mage armor i still have 30.34%.

    On Sunday I´ll going to raid with 28.34% (31.34% with molton) as a final test for myself. Maybe it supports my opinion or let me rethink. We´ll see.
    Last edited by citizenpete; 2011-05-07 at 10:24 AM.

  18. #398
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    A question!

    Why go with 3/3 Permafrost instead of 3/3 Enduring Winter?
    Wouldn't it be more beneficial for the whole group to get the mana back and also get to save some mana yourself?

  19. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogueparagon View Post
    A question!

    Why go with 3/3 Permafrost instead of 3/3 Enduring Winter?
    Wouldn't it be more beneficial for the whole group to get the mana back and also get to save some mana yourself?
    I'm personally going with...
    - 2/3 Enduring Winter
    - 1/3 Permafrost - I haven't noticed my pet dying in ways that would've been prevented if I had more points here, but the little bit of healing 1 point gives does no harm either
    - 1/2 Ice Shards - the FoFs and BFs you gain from it aren't bad at all when returning back to single target after AoEing.

  20. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogueparagon View Post
    A question!

    Why go with 3/3 Permafrost instead of 3/3 Enduring Winter?
    Wouldn't it be more beneficial for the whole group to get the mana back and also get to save some mana yourself?
    I'm personally the kiter for my raid group usually and we have replenishment elsewhere. The extra chills is the only reason I'm running it these days. Another decent use for it is that in 5 mans, no one will ever heal your elemental so the 15% healing is quite nice.

    The "final" set I showed was just putting the two floating points into permafrost. The base before it shows the skeleton you need (should have) in the frost tree, you'll need to spend 2 more points to grab DF and then go for ignite/NP. The guide was originally also geared towards using mage armour, thus making the mana reduction talents more or less useless. I've mixed my spec up from what is posted in the guide based on my own specific needs during raids.
    Last edited by Kuni Zyrekai; 2011-05-07 at 03:21 PM.

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