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  1. #1141
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Frost Bomb does not give FoF at all, nor do the other Bombs. That's BF.
    I guess he meant the guaranteed proc from Frozen Orb by reaching the target.

  2. #1142
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Frost Bomb does not give FoF at all, nor do the other Bombs. That's BF.

    But i think we got a little to many procs at times in the previous version which made rather hard or even impossible to get rid of them fast enough, even glyphed. It was a little to frantic at times. Also, we're now guaranteed at least 5 charges per minute, up from 4.
    Haven't really had a chance to futz around with the changes since Mekkatorque doesn't seem to like staying up, so can't say much about what it's like now.
    Yep... my mistake. I meant to say Brain Freeze proc with Frost Bomb. Not sure what I was thinking there.

    EDIT: I was thinking of what citizenpete wrote.
    Last edited by Max Rebo; 2012-04-12 at 04:47 PM.

  3. #1143
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    I had another long night with the Beta and the last changes. A lot of things came into my mind, but one thing lasts on top of all thougts:
    Do we still need the 2 charges from pet freeze? Interaction with BF gone, Deep Freeze as a damge spell also gone, so why do we need it? Now you really can use pet freeze on cooldown and release charges as soon as possible (unless you have to move).
    Another thing is the BF proc caused by frost bomb. It feels like we have two rotations. We spam 3 frostbolts together with ice lance procs and cast frost bomb together with FFB proc. Then we repeat it over and over again - feels a little bit weird.

  4. #1144
    So is Frostfire Orb code for Frostfire Bolt cause I'm not seeing a spell of Frostfire Orb and I'm sorry for being a mage newb this is my first mage and I used the SoR to make it.

  5. #1145
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    Quote Originally Posted by citizenpete View Post
    I had another long night with the Beta and the last changes. A lot of things came into my mind, but one thing lasts on top of all thougts:
    Do we still need the 2 charges from pet freeze? Interaction with BF gone, Deep Freeze as a damge spell also gone, so why do we need it? Now you really can use pet freeze on cooldown and release charges as soon as possible (unless you have to move).
    Another thing is the BF proc caused by frost bomb. It feels like we have two rotations. We spam 3 frostbolts together with ice lance procs and cast frost bomb together with FFB proc. Then we repeat it over and over again - feels a little bit weird.
    If no further changes were to be made to Frost as it stands on the current beta build, then we really would need the 2 FoF charges from Pet Freeze. Otherwise, even more priority will be put on Frostbolt, and we'd be even more starved for FoF procs.

    Even though number tuning isn't even close to happening yet, someone on the WoW beta classes forum did the math to compare Frost dps on live vs. beta. Amazingly enough, with the current beta patch they're almost the same, which is a good start.

    I don't know how I'd feel about losing the 2 procs with Pet Freeze since I'm used to it being there. If they made up for that loss somewhere else, say with increased FoF procs on Frostbolt, then it might be okay. On the other hand, it would give us one less thing to think about during an already not-so-difficult spell "rotation."

    They also need to do more with FFB. Sure, the increased damage is nice -- no, necessary -- but it's otherwise empty spell. Blizzard needs to add *something* to BF-FFB casts. Maybe a freezing DoT, or some other type of secondary effect. Heck, make FFB interact with FoF again. That would be fantastic. I'm sure someone else already mentioned this idea as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by BraiNSlobbeR View Post
    So is Frostfire Orb code for Frostfire Bolt cause I'm not seeing a spell of Frostfire Orb and I'm sorry for being a mage newb this is my first mage and I used the SoR to make it.
    Frostfire Orb is gone for MoP. Frostfire Bolt is a separate spell and carries over from live. In the place of Frostfire Orb, we get Nether Tempest, Frost Bomb, and Living Bomb. Flame Orb is also gone, which is fair, as it was a rather empty spell. You would just cast it on cooldown and then forget about it. It's more useful for Arcane on live due to the constant AM procs which allow mana regen to occur while still doing mediocre dps.
    Last edited by Max Rebo; 2012-04-13 at 02:15 PM.

  6. #1146
    Still i don't understand why this good piece of a guide (and the discussion that follows) is not yet a sticky as defo has all that it takes and then some...

  7. #1147
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    Now we have only two charges for the charge sake. Why do I need a pet AoE to get another 2 charges in a single target rotation? If Blizzard really don´t want any further interaction with FoF, then why pet freeze? Give our beloved pet another spell or ability to... maybe interact with BF? I don´t know. But at current state, Frost feels ambivalent.

  8. #1148
    Quote Originally Posted by Max Rebo View Post
    Frostfire Orb is gone for MoP. Frostfire Bolt is a separate spell and carries over from live. In the place of Frostfire Orb, we get Nether Tempest, Frost Bomb, and Living Bomb. Flame Orb is also gone, which is fair, as it was a rather empty spell. You would just cast it on cooldown and then forget about it. It's more useful for Arcane on live due to the constant AM procs which allow mana regen to occur while still doing mediocre dps.
    You're forgetting Frozen Orb. Frost is the only spec to keep an Orb spell.
    Quote Originally Posted by galopim View Post
    Still i don't understand why this good piece of a guide (and the discussion that follows) is not yet a sticky as defo has all that it takes and then some...
    All three guides were unstickied a while ago to clean up the stickies. There's a referral thread stickied that links to them.

  9. #1149
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    You're forgetting Frozen Orb. Frost is the only spec to keep an Orb spell.
    Blah... I'm never going to get these correct when posting! :P

    Yes, I forgot Frozen Orb.

    I should probably get more sleep...

  10. #1150
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    Quote Originally Posted by citizenpete View Post
    Now we have only two charges for the charge sake. Why do I need a pet AoE to get another 2 charges in a single target rotation? If Blizzard really don´t want any further interaction with FoF, then why pet freeze? Give our beloved pet another spell or ability to... maybe interact with BF? I don´t know. But at current state, Frost feels ambivalent.
    Its for the "drought" period between Orb casts that people are debating about on the beta forums. You supposedly barely get any procs while the orb is not up, so pet Freeze helps make it more bearable.

  11. #1151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bombkirby View Post
    Its for the "drought" period between Orb casts
    I know that, but they could simply increase procrate from FB, FFB, and Scorch. We don´t need 2 charges 2x in a minute (Deep Freeze) anymore. What about a Frostfirebolt performed by the WE? Or a "Boiling Waterbolt"? and you´re able to command it every 30 seconds for expample, so we get rid of that odd AoE in single target fights?

    In which forums they are debating? The german forums (frost mage in particular) are dead.
    Last edited by citizenpete; 2012-04-13 at 10:04 PM.

  12. #1152
    The thing is they are guaranteed charges. Increasing the proc rate would still be subject to RNG.

    It's a tool to control the amount of RNG the spec is subject to.

  13. #1153
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    Quote Originally Posted by citizenpete View Post
    Do we still need the 2 charges from pet freeze?
    To prevent RNG from entirely fucking us over, that's all.

    Quote Originally Posted by BraiNSlobbeR View Post
    So is Frostfire Orb code for Frostfire Bolt cause I'm not seeing a spell of Frostfire Orb and I'm sorry for being a mage newb this is my first mage and I used the SoR to make it.
    Orb is obtained at 81, and morphs to frostfire orb when specced into it in frost.

    Quote Originally Posted by Max Rebo View Post
    They also need to do more with FFB. Sure, the increased damage is nice -- no, necessary -- but it's otherwise empty spell. Blizzard needs to add *something* to BF-FFB casts. Maybe a freezing DoT, or some other type of secondary effect. Heck, make FFB interact with FoF again. That would be fantastic. I'm sure someone else already mentioned this idea as well.
    Agreed, but they won't put it back on FoF. The interaction between both was apparently confusing.

    Quote Originally Posted by citizenpete View Post
    I know that, but they could simply increase procrate from FB, FFB, and Scorch. We don´t need 2 charges 2x in a minute (Deep Freeze) anymore. What about a Frostfirebolt performed by the WE? Or a "Boiling Waterbolt"? and you´re able to command it every 30 seconds for expample, so we get rid of that odd AoE in single target fights?

    In which forums they are debating? The german forums (frost mage in particular) are dead.
    It's likely a matter of balance and keeping the playstyle somewhat the same. They're debating on the US beta class forums.

  14. #1154
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    If they don't want to change the beta gameplay, they can make BF-FFB available for mastery without having to use FOF and having is the guaranteed crit. It's make both mastery and crit rating more interesting than actually.

    For the WE, they can give it a DF like spell (not so huge) with a 1 minutes charge up.

  15. #1155
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    Quote Originally Posted by citizenpete View Post
    We don´t need 2 charges 2x in a minute (Deep Freeze) anymore.
    If you want to chose when to unleash 2 large bursts of damage, I would imagine you'd like 2 charges. Probably practical for certain adds but way more practical in a PvP environment.

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-14 at 07:31 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nathyiel View Post
    For the WE, they can give it a DF like spell (not so huge) with a 1 minutes charge up.
    Some one also suggested on the US forums to give the WE a move that shares a cooldown with Freeze, that grants 2 charges of FoF, but its for single target use. No having to click the ground to cast it.

  16. #1156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bombkirby View Post
    Some one also suggested on the US forums to give the WE a move that shares a cooldown with Freeze, that grants 2 charges of FoF, but its for single target use. No having to click the ground to cast it.
    Gonna have to go look for that post, I'll support that.

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-14 at 04:09 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nathyiel View Post
    If they don't want to change the beta gameplay, they can make BF-FFB available for mastery without having to use FOF and having is the guaranteed crit. It's make both mastery and crit rating more interesting than actually.

    For the WE, they can give it a DF like spell (not so huge) with a 1 minutes charge up.
    Well BF-FFB on mastery would fix a PVP implication I'm seeing, but not having it crit actually makes crit more valuable for us, since we don't have a crit cap on so many spells. It becomes more useful past that shatter cap for more spells.

  17. #1157
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuni Zyrekai View Post
    Gonna have to go look for that post, I'll support that.
    Even just giving two charges with no other effect could work, the damage of Freeze is rather incosequential anyway.

    On that note, i'd like for the WE to get a OOC self heal ability, mostly just so i don't have to run around with a half dead WE that isn't worth resummoning at the time.

  18. #1158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bombkirby View Post
    If you want to chose when to unleash 2 large bursts of damage, I would imagine you'd like 2 charges. Probably practical for certain adds but way more practical in a PvP environment.
    I´m just missing the mechanic of a spell like Deep Freeze and a Brainfreeze related to Fingers of Frost. Both seem to be gone and pet freeze just looks like a severed trunk.

    Maybe its the language barrier, I don´t know : / I like changes, but those feel like "Okay we have a new expansion and we´re trying to start from the scratch. Let´s change a lot of things".

    The community made a lot of improvement suggestions, but they implemented another AoE for the single target rotation. They ripped two very popular and beloved spells an mechanics.

    I`ve just expected more

  19. #1159
    They did? Which ones?
    Deep Freeze was just a crutch mechanic to make Frost stronger in PvE while not to strong in PvP, and BF not benefitting from FoF really isn't that big a deal.

  20. #1160
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    They did? Which ones?
    Deep Freeze was just a crutch mechanic to make Frost stronger in PvE while not to strong in PvP, and BF not benefitting from FoF really isn't that big a deal.
    If i understand it right - bf on fof is more of a "clean profile" suggestion - focus the spec around fof`s, instead of having the feel of two different rotations going, one centered around dumping fof`s and another around proccing bf`s with bombs.
    Having more spells on fof gives a little bit of decision making, that is, if they are worth casting and not just a different colored instant. 2 spells on fof dosnt sound hugely different - but as a design direction ( fof charges as a currency, sort of) there could be something to get there.

    The suggestion with fof being a debuff on the target sounds to me like something they at least should try out for a build - it could be one of those simple to understand, easy to learn but hard to max out playstyles, if it mimics pvp/lesser mobs at least.
    Last edited by verdamte; 2012-04-14 at 03:03 PM.

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