Page 6 of 61 FirstFirst ...
4
5
6
7
8
16
56
... LastLast
  1. #101
    It might have been said, but I thought you need 34% crit because of the 2% crit suppression?

  2. #102
    Pandaren Monk
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    The Frozen North
    Posts
    1,987
    Quote Originally Posted by Tunapants View Post
    It might have been said, but I thought you need 34% crit because of the 2% crit suppression?
    Other than one post on EJ with no citations as to it being exactly 2%, I have yet to find hard numbers on the boss crit suppression. I have seen posted anywhere from 1.4% to 3% suppression but no one seems to agree. I personally haven't seen a crit suppression in relation to my own crits, but then I might be slightly above 33.34% with raid buffs and counteracting it without actually trying to.

    Until someone posts conclusive evidence as to an exact percentage, all I can say at the moment is 33.34%. I will add a note to the guide about this though.

  3. #103
    Considering jumping ship being that Affliction in 2s is horrible, and I'm fine in PvE mostly, but Destruction is whipping us by 2k dps. I love my Frost Mage in 2s with Dps, and I love the actual PvE Rotation. I find it smooth and fun with all of the procs as compared to clunky ass destru. So, just wondering if the gap between Fire/Frost is as big as between Affliction/Destro and if Frost is at least on par with Affliction? Thanks.

  4. #104
    Pandaren Monk
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    The Frozen North
    Posts
    1,987
    Quote Originally Posted by rap87 View Post
    Considering jumping ship being that Affliction in 2s is horrible, and I'm fine in PvE mostly, but Destruction is whipping us by 2k dps. I love my Frost Mage in 2s with Dps, and I love the actual PvE Rotation. I find it smooth and fun with all of the procs as compared to clunky ass destru. So, just wondering if the gap between Fire/Frost is as big as between Affliction/Destro and if Frost is at least on par with Affliction? Thanks.
    Last full raid simulation I saw, warlocks of all flavours were beating mages by a couple thousand DPS. Mages as a class need a buff to pull us out of the middle of the pack.

    On average, the difference between fire and frost is 1-2k, but it could swing in either direction really quickly if you have bad/good luck with RNG. Hot streaks, brain freezes, fingers procs, if you get a lucky run of any of them your DPS can jump quite high. Frost for example, over all the tests I've run, I had one specific run in a test of 10000 that hit 31k. I've never seen it again since. Fire's spread regularly goes from 18-29k.

    As to afflic vs frost, afflic is going to win. You can DoT up multiple targets if the need arises, and warlocks are just flat out better than mages currently. Skill and gear can change this to an extent, but mathematically warlocks are a fair bit better.

  5. #105
    Whelp that sucks. I noticed on stateofdps.com that Fire seemed to be beating out both destruction/affliction, but they had listed a pretty huge cap between fire/frost like 4k worth? I suppose I'm stuck with pve on lock and pvp 2s on frost mage....would have loved to been able to main the toon I like to play both in.

    If fire was truly beating locks in pve, I guess I could consider fire pve/frost pvp, even though I prefer frost over fire, fire is way better than destruction.

  6. #106
    Pandaren Monk
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    The Frozen North
    Posts
    1,987
    Quote Originally Posted by rap87 View Post
    Whelp that sucks. I noticed on stateofdps.com that Fire seemed to be beating out both destruction/affliction, but they had listed a pretty huge cap between fire/frost like 4k worth? I suppose I'm stuck with pve on lock and pvp 2s on frost mage....would have loved to been able to main the toon I like to play both in.

    If fire was truly beating locks in pve, I guess I could consider fire pve/frost pvp, even though I prefer frost over fire, fire is way better than destruction.
    Well the problem with that site is it's taking the average of the top. So you're getting a bunch of those tip of the bell curve results instead of the average. Especially an issue in that I've only ever seen frost's results break 30k once in how many millions of iterations of the tests I've done, vs at least 27k top end on fire the handful of times I've modelled it.

    Considering the majority of people who play mage to do top DPS go fire, you've not got the same number of highly geared/highly skilled people playing frost. So you're looking at high skill/gear top end fire and average-to-high skill/gear on frost. Fire's RNG swing is much wider than frost's.
    Last edited by Kuni Zyrekai; 2011-02-25 at 07:04 PM.

  7. #107
    I defiantly appreciate the quick replies Kuni. So, in your opinion even if I went Fire Dps PvE, currently even Affliction beats that out?

    And lastly other than stateofdps.com whats the best place to get my info regarding current dps trends?

  8. #108
    Pandaren Monk
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    The Frozen North
    Posts
    1,987
    Quote Originally Posted by rap87 View Post
    I defiantly appreciate the quick replies Kuni. So, in your opinion even if I went Fire Dps PvE, currently even Affliction beats that out?

    And lastly other than stateofdps.com whats the best place to get my info regarding current dps trends?
    Equal skill and gear, yeah, afflic should win. Honestly though, play what you enjoy.

    Your best bet for determining actual DPS averages for every spec is sadly to rely on someone simulating every spec at once, using simcraft or the like. I'd opt to do this myself but sadly at the moment my computer is not up to to challenge without taking multiple days.

    Edit: On quick replies and the not-so-quick this time, I just check the thread every couple of days and answer what I can for a while.

  9. #109
    Well about the hit cap, even though stat weighs will stay the same, I can't even think about missing a DF while raiding as frost. Other than that, only issue left seems to be the mentality of raiders and mathmaticians, AKA Guild masters or raid leaders.

    Freakin' sick of being forced to Fire to raid, and even sicker of the guild rep being so high and thus my hesitation of leaving. Why would no one want to understand that Frost is viable is beyond me, not like my raid group of the guild does any heroic modes so the DPS gain of fire is not significant enough in my eyes.

    Freakin' hate raiding as Fire with 22% crit rate. At least shatter makes up for the lack of crit a bit. On the other hand, I'm losing my hair over not getting any Pyro procs. 5 instant pyros over the course of a 25 man Argaloth is maddening.
    "So, he sent a succubus to seduce you, and lure you down to his side. And yet, first thing you do is to check her ass? Ah, kid, you've got much to learn.."

  10. #110
    Great thread, made some spec and rotion changes and gained about 1k dps. I do have a question: if you take 2 points in Frostfire Orb (+20% slow from FFB), and use the Frostfire glyph (lose slowing affect of FFB), do you get any slow or is it 20% of zero? Thanks in advance.

  11. #111
    Glyphing Frostfire Bolt means no snare at all even with 2/2 Frostfire Orb talent.

  12. #112
    Pandaren Monk
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    The Frozen North
    Posts
    1,987
    Quote Originally Posted by dandolf View Post
    Glyphing Frostfire Bolt means no snare at all even with 2/2 Frostfire Orb talent.
    This. You take 2/2 for the chill on the orb itself to allow for fingers procs off the orb.

  13. #113
    i have just started a Mage for the first time and really really enjoying it

    levelling as frost with fire off spec

    i intend to do as many quests as possible in an effort to get muchos achi points........however..........just what can you solo as frost?

    my hunter and warlock walked through 95% of group quests solo, and my paladin, druid and dk did pretty much the same.

    what is my Mage going to be able to cope with? im guessing he will have an easy time 1-60 on the revamped content but in Boreland and Borerend with the elite quests there im guessing im going to struggle soloing them?

  14. #114
    Pandaren Monk
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    The Frozen North
    Posts
    1,987
    Quote Originally Posted by UberVoltage View Post
    i have just started a Mage for the first time and really really enjoying it

    levelling as frost with fire off spec

    i intend to do as many quests as possible in an effort to get muchos achi points........however..........just what can you solo as frost?

    my hunter and warlock walked through 95% of group quests solo, and my paladin, druid and dk did pretty much the same.

    what is my Mage going to be able to cope with? im guessing he will have an easy time 1-60 on the revamped content but in Boreland and Borerend with the elite quests there im guessing im going to struggle soloing them?
    Deep freeze is your friend, as is the lower level mirror images. If you can stun an elite mob, you can probably kill it fairly quickly. If not, it still does a massive amount of damage, usually enough to take something down before mirror images die. If something can be slowed by any of your spells, just kite it to death.

    I soloed a good majority of the outland and northrend group quests at level when they were new. Now MI is a level 50-someodd skill and things should be a lot easier because of it.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuni Zyrekai View Post
    Deep freeze is your friend, as is the lower level mirror images. If you can stun an elite mob, you can probably kill it fairly quickly. If not, it still does a massive amount of damage, usually enough to take something down before mirror images die. If something can be slowed by any of your spells, just kite it to death.

    I soloed a good majority of the outland and northrend group quests at level when they were new. Now MI is a level 50-someodd skill and things should be a lot easier because of it.
    Seconding this, was nice to solo the Nesingwary chain in Nagrand, or other similar "kill this though sob" type of quests. Didn't try my luck at the Gronn though, he has massive amounts of HP.

    I'd say after LVL 50, you won't have any problems soloing 3 man quests.
    "So, he sent a succubus to seduce you, and lure you down to his side. And yet, first thing you do is to check her ass? Ah, kid, you've got much to learn.."

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorage View Post
    Seconding this, was nice to solo the Nesingwary chain in Nagrand, or other similar "kill this though sob" type of quests. Didn't try my luck at the Gronn though, he has massive amounts of HP.

    I'd say after LVL 50, you won't have any problems soloing 3 man quests.
    I tried Gronn but he slapped me around. He had 121k HP and I only managed to take like, 20% of it. I almost died on the 56k HP bosses of Camp of Hate/Wrath, the group quests of Nagrand too, but managed to kite them after my HP was low. On hindsight I forgot to use mana shield which would have made kitting needless. Two extra points for the pet healing would have helped too, as the elites focus on him first before going for the mirror images. The longer he lives thanks to the heals the longer the boss ignores us.

    All other group quests had bosses with 20-30k HP and they went down in flames.

    Regarding Iceblock disappearing early as someone said earlier in this thread. Iceblock's second cast cancels the effect, there is no longer a need for a cancelaura macro. So don't spam it

  17. #117
    I have a few questions since I'm a noobling mage.

    The advice given in this guide, that Frostfire Bolt is no longer something to be used when Fingers of Frost is active. How does that affect Ignite? Considering Ignite only triggers with a fire crit and that as frost our only fire crits come from FFB and Frostfire Orb doesn't the weight of Ignite go down if we no longer get automatic crits from FFB procs and rely instead on a 33% chance?

  18. #118
    Pandaren Monk
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    The Frozen North
    Posts
    1,987
    Quote Originally Posted by CedricDur View Post
    I have a few questions since I'm a noobling mage.

    The advice given in this guide, that Frostfire Bolt is no longer something to be used when Fingers of Frost is active. How does that affect Ignite? Considering Ignite only triggers with a fire crit and that as frost our only fire crits come from FFB and Frostfire Orb doesn't the weight of Ignite go down if we no longer get automatic crits from FFB procs and rely instead on a 33% chance?
    It's still the best place for points. Even just casting it as it comes, you're still getting 50-60% crit rate on it because fingers CAN be up, it's just that you don't care if it is or not.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuni Zyrekai View Post
    It's still the best place for points. Even just casting it as it comes, you're still getting 50-60% crit rate on it because fingers CAN be up, it's just that you don't care if it is or not.
    How does Ignite compare with Fire Power with the change? Since Ignite is very RNG based now, but Fire Power would be consistent, I was just curious.

  20. #120
    Pandaren Monk
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    The Frozen North
    Posts
    1,987
    Quote Originally Posted by yjmark View Post
    How does Ignite compare with Fire Power with the change? Since Ignite is very RNG based now, but Fire Power would be consistent, I was just curious.
    I've tried modeling that, it's just awful. The points are better spent in fleshing out netherwind presence. 3/3 ignite and 2/3 netherwind is still the best despite the change in brain freeze usage.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •