Mastery vs Crit for ret

[Beastchief]

With as random as mastery is for ret pallies, would you guys say that crit would be better?

[Prentice]

EDIT: Deleted because it is way outdated and this post keeps getting bumped.

[Beastchief]

Haha, ok. That's what I was thinking, just wanted some other opinions.

[Prentice]

EDIT: Deleted because it is way outdated and this post keeps getting bumped.

[Beastchief]

Cool, thanks

[Hydramaster]

Strength>Hit>Haste>Crit>Expertise>........................................................ .................................................................Mastery

Last I checked, getting both hit/expertise capped was still above haste, since missing or getting dodged is a huge dps loss. so i doubt expertise is below both haste and crit

[DaGhostDS]

even arp was better then that.. lol

0.68 if i remember..

Already have a my own BiS pre raid done with 0 mastery on it, i will only need to juggle a bit with the reforging to get the numbers right but it seem ok.

[Iradain]

In Redcape's spreadsheet the general stat weightings are as follows:
Strength: 202
Hit: 152
Expertise: 111
Crit: 81
Haste: 76
Mastery: 38

[assilley]

hit cap is always number 1 priority for any dps. what is the point of being soft haste capped or crit capped if you miss half the time.

What i would like to know is if mastery does have some value when haste % is still a bit low, is mastery going to be of more value when there is haste/crit on your gear to be able to proc more holy light to fill gaps.. reforge the crit into mastery?

[Nillo]

1) hit cap is always number 1 priority for any dps. what is the point of being soft haste capped or crit capped if you miss half the time.
2) What i would like to know is if mastery does have some value when haste % is still a bit low, is mastery going to be of more value when there is haste/crit on your gear to be able to proc more holy light to fill gaps.. reforge the crit into mastery?

1) If you get a 2% damage increase for the amount of rating you need for 1% hit you just suck up not hitting every single time.
2) Mastery is always useless and doesn't get better at any point - ever.

[Fredzilla]

I miss having a 3 sec CS cd T_T

[Pigeon555]

hit cap is always number 1 priority for any dps. what is the point of being soft haste capped or crit capped if you miss half the time.

What i would like to know is if mastery does have some value when haste % is still a bit low, is mastery going to be of more value when there is haste/crit on your gear to be able to proc more holy light to fill gaps.. reforge the crit into mastery?

You wouldn't want to lose crit for mastery, looking at recount, I found I do most of my damage through Templars verdict with a reasonable gap ahead of melee being second, and I don't have much mastery yet, with more mastery comes more free Templars verdict hits and when it crits, it crits big, I'd like to hear others opinions on my theory of crit and mastery

[Phantomebb]

Not sure about Pve and what everyone else is saying. But point for point you just get more out of mastery then crit for example, 350 crit rating gives around 2% where 350 mastery is 3.5%. Now I am a Pvp ret but our dmg is so low as it is stacking mastery seems the only way to go. But for pve I would still think haste is better than crit.

[belfpala]

Not sure about Pve and what everyone else is saying. But point for point you just get more out of mastery then crit for example, 350 crit rating gives around 2% where 350 mastery is 3.5%. Now I am a Pvp ret but our dmg is so low as it is stacking mastery seems the only way to go. But for pve I would still think haste is better than crit.

No.

Especially not for PvP.

Mastery is the worst stat. Flat out. No questions.

[Phantomebb]

No.

Especially not for PvP.

Mastery is the worst stat. Flat out. No questions.

And your evidence is ???? And actually I think my % is wrong for Mastery but still I value it more then any stat in PVP.

[Hydramaster]

And your evidence is ???? And actually I think my % is wrong for Mastery but still I value it more then any stat in PVP.

How about the fact that our mastery is so terrible that blizzard is changing it? They already said what it would be changed to in a new post. let me see if I can give a more specific explanation though.

On any given proc, our mastery can actually be a dps loss. with inquisition up, exo is currently hitting harder than TV. even without it up, an exo crit hits harder than a non crit.

secondly, it can only proc from auto-attacks. in pvp, very little of your damage will come from auto-attacks since it is so difficult to stay in melee range against anyone who is worth their salt for pvp.

While it may be true that the same amount of rating may yield a higher % increase for mastery than for haste (using your example of 350 crit rating = 2% crit while 350 mastery rating = 3.5% mastery), that does not mean that mastery is a more valuable stat. all it means is that mastery has a different stat conversion than crit. nothing more, nothing less.

As it stands, our mastery is terrible. which is why it is being changed.

[Phantomebb]

How about the fact that our mastery is so terrible that blizzard is changing it? They already said what it would be changed to in a new post. let me see if I can give a more specific explanation though.

On any given proc, our mastery can actually be a dps loss. with inquisition up, exo is currently hitting harder than TV. even without it up, an exo crit hits harder than a non crit.

secondly, it can only proc from auto-attacks. in pvp, very little of your damage will come from auto-attacks since it is so difficult to stay in melee range against anyone who is worth their salt for pvp.

While it may be true that the same amount of rating may yield a higher % increase for mastery than for haste (using your example of 350 crit rating = 2% crit while 350 mastery rating = 3.5% mastery), that does not mean that mastery is a more valuable stat. all it means is that mastery has a different stat conversion than crit. nothing more, nothing less.

As it stands, our mastery is terrible. which is why it is being changed.

Saying its being changed though is misleading because they are still keeping it implemented in the game. His question was about crit vs haste and they are both bad in pve. I don't know what kind of PvP you do but its really not that hard to stay in melee range, unless its a frost mage or sv hunter. Honestly they like the Mastery they are just gonna buff the percentage a bit and give us damage a good amount more damage. I do just fine in Arenas stacking Mastery, in fact it has won me alot of close games.

[Requital]

With as random as mastery is for ret pallies, would you guys say that crit would be better?

Proper weights which have not been shown here are the following.

Stat Redcape 5.12 Exemplar 12-22
Str 1 1
AP .45 .45
Hit .42 .27
Exp .27 .18
Crit .20 .12
Haste .16 .11
Mastery .09 .06

It also depends if you are talking PvE or PvP as they are different for each and no specification was made.

---------- Post added 2010-12-29 at 01:45 PM ----------

No.

Especially not for PvP.

Mastery is the worst stat. Flat out. No questions.

Mastery is actually good for PvP in it's current form it helps a ton, PvP doesn't use sustained DPS PvP is random and random HoL procs are good.

[Agathon]

yeah for a few days now, the newest thing is that crit > haste, on ej. i cant reproduce it with simcraft though - thats making me nervous. any math behind that one?
and on trinkets : how can heart of rage be > crushing weight?

[Prentice]

Proper weights which have not been shown here are the following.

At the time the question was asked and I posted my reply, EJ was still not willing to post stat weight because the different results were wildly different. Thanks for updating this and clearing things up.

I likely just shuffled haste and expertise. Doesn't even look right.