Mastery vs Crit for ret

[Oursaviour]

Like all other dps class my wager would still be hit and expertise until capped is the big nr.1
After cap it's STR, haste, crit

I must have missed that they will change our mastery, got a link for that?

[Prentice]

Like all other dps class my wager would still be hit and expertise until capped is the big nr.1
After cap it's STR, haste, crit

I must have missed that they will change our mastery, got a link for that?

Not really. Strength is still worth so much more than Hit and Expertise. Enchant and gem for strength everywhere you can. If you can't do that, that's when you go for hit and expertise. The proper way to reach those caps is through reforging.

[Pigeon555]

Strength is still a pally's best stat and should be the only stat gemmed but hit and haste are also very important, as for the fight between crit, haste and mastery, Mastery is probably the more important stat following closely by haste, crit should be reforged if not for hit or exp then to haste or mastery, mastery = more chance to get rocs and haste means more auto attacks to get procs too, more procs, more dps

[Prentice]

Strength is still a pally's best stat and should be the only stat gemmed but hit and haste are also very important, as for the fight between crit, haste and mastery, Mastery is probably the more important stat following closely by haste, crit should be reforged if not for hit or exp then to haste or mastery, mastery = more chance to get rocs and haste means more auto attacks to get procs too, more procs, more dps

EJ couldn't disagree more. Mastery is currently the worst stat. Crit is higher than Haste. Instead of your Mastery>Haste>Crit suggestion, people should probably go Crit>Haste>Mastery as suggested by EJ.

[Jazzhands]

Mastery in its current form is terrible. Haste is by far the best thing to stack beyond STR and hit/exp cap. It lowers the cooldown of crusader strike, in addition to giving you more white swings. Once they change the mastery, that may change, seeing as most of our damage is holy, and it will work in tune with Inquisition. How soon they will change it, I have no idea. For now, avoid mastery like its the plague.

---------- Post added 2011-01-04 at 05:02 PM ----------

Strength is still a pally's best stat and should be the only stat gemmed but hit and haste are also very important, as for the fight between crit, haste and mastery, Mastery is probably the more important stat following closely by haste, crit should be reforged if not for hit or exp then to haste or mastery, mastery = more chance to get rocs and haste means more auto attacks to get procs too, more procs, more dps

This would hold up, if the proc chance was higher. Even blizzard said it would need to be rediculously high in order for the current mastery to not be bad. Its way to RNG, mastery as a stat doesn't increase the proc chance enough to be worth it.

[Prentice]

Mastery in its current form is terrible. Haste is by far the best thing to stack beyond STR and hit/exp cap. It lowers the cooldown of crusader strike, in addition to giving you more white swings. Once they change the mastery, that may change, seeing as most of our damage is holy, and it will work in tune with Inquisition. How soon they will change it, I have no idea. For now, avoid mastery like its the plague.

I don't wanna seem like I am trying to talk shit, but do you play a ret pally at all?? Crit > Haste. Period. It has been stated repeatedly.

[Jazzhands]

I don't wanna seem like I am trying to talk shit, but do you play a ret pally at all?? Crit > Haste. Period. It has been stated repeatedly.

I do. Not very hard core, I prefer holy, but I still look into it. Haste and crit are pretty close in most circumstances, and stat weights change from person to person depending on gear. Just because EJ states that crit is 2.0 and haste is 1.9 doesn't mean its end all be all like most people seem to believe. Like a lot of classes right now, try and keep them in decent balance, however so far haste seems to benefit me more. Maybe I'll run some sims on it, but overall I prefer to run dungeons and such, field tests always work better.

[Nonsensei]

I do. Not very hard core, I prefer holy, but I still look into it. Haste and crit are pretty close in most circumstances, and stat weights change from person to person depending on gear. Just because EJ states that crit is 2.0 and haste is 1.9 doesn't mean its end all be all like most people seem to believe. Like a lot of classes right now, try and keep them in decent balance, however so far haste seems to benefit me more. Maybe I'll run some sims on it, but overall I prefer to run dungeons and such, field tests always work better.

Sorry but stat weights really dont change from person to person depending on gear. The point of stat weights is to create a universal stat priority for a given spec.

If you have gear with a metric ton of haste and very little crit, it will be more beneficial for you to reforge as much of that haste into crit as you can.

DISCLAIMER: the above is a theoretical situation, obviously you need to be hit and expertise capped first and then you should be reforging mastery to crit before you reforge a single point of haste to crit. The point is that crit is clearly a better stat, no matter how small the margin of superiority is.

[Jazzhands]

Sorry but stat weights really dont change from person to person depending on gear. The point of stat weights is to create a universal stat priority for a given spec.

If you have gear with a metric ton of haste and very little crit, it will be more beneficial for you to reforge as much of that haste into crit as you can.

DISCLAIMER: the above is a theoretical situation, obviously you need to be hit and expertise capped first and then you should be reforging mastery to crit before you reforge a single point of haste to crit. The point is that crit is clearly a better stat, no matter how small the margin of superiority is.

Stat weights do change. Arp became more valuable the more you had, each point was worth more then the one that came before it. Once the cap of arp is reached, its no longer worth it. Currently, for priests or mages, haste is important until 12.5%, after that its value then drops significantly until you can reach like, 30%. I've run sims on my characters, and stat weights turn out differently. You should ALWAYS theorycraft your own stat weights. The one on EJ are mainly a rough estimate.

[Deleted]

Stat weights do change. Arp become more valuable the more you had, each point was worth more then the one that came before it. Once the cap of arp is reached, its no longer worth it. Currently, for priests or mages, haste is important until 12.5%, after that its value then drops significantly until you can reach like, 30%. I've run sims on my characters, and stat weights turn out differently. You should ALWAYS theorycraft your own stat weights. The one on EJ are mainly a rough estimate.

EJ makes wrongs maths, that's why even Blizzard said their maths were cra- Oh wait. Blizzard said that even community (therefore, EJ) do better theorycraft than Blizzard themself do, so making your own maths can only lead to a value much less valuable than the one from the community that do better maths than Blizzard.

[Jazzhands]

EJ makes wrongs maths, that's why even Blizzard said their maths were cra- Oh wait. Blizzard said that even community (therefore, EJ) do better theorycraft than Blizzard themself do, so making your own maths can only lead to a value much less valuable than the one from the community that do better maths than Blizzard.

I use sims recomended by EJ.

[Badpaladin]

Stat weights do change. Arp became more valuable the more you had, each point was worth more then the one that came before it. Once the cap of arp is reached, its no longer worth it. Currently, for priests or mages, haste is important until 12.5%, after that its value then drops significantly until you can reach like, 30%. I've run sims on my characters, and stat weights turn out differently. You should ALWAYS theorycraft your own stat weights. The one on EJ are mainly a rough estimate.

What sims are you running when Exemplar hasn't released his up-to-date spreadsheet? Your analogy to ARP was incorrect, because it acted a reverse bell curve(not to be confused with exponential, as it had end points, although you could probably take the derivative at a point and certainly make that conclusion somewhere). Haste and Crit are linear in value, it just so happens that crit turns out a little better. You have to keep in mind, that when aiming for ~12% haste you've given up a solid percentage crit increase, and the difference is negative according to "the mathz".

Both are so close to each other that to simply mark one as clearly superior without further explanation would be asinine though, so I also think it's good to have a fair balance of the two stats. However, I'm always going to lean more towards crit and let that 12% come naturally with gear. I haven't seen any math put out to suggest doing otherwise is superior, so I'm going by stat weights.

[Jazzhands]

What sims are you running when Exemplar hasn't released his up-to-date spreadsheet? Your analogy to ARP was incorrect, because it acted a reverse bell curve(not to be confused with exponential, as it had end points, although you could probably take the derivative at a point and certainly make that conclusion somewhere). Haste and Crit are linear in value, it just so happens that crit turns out a little better. You have to keep in mind, that when aiming for ~12% haste you've given up a solid percentage crit increase, and the difference is negative according to "the mathz".

Both are so close to each other that to simply mark one as clearly superior without further explanation would be asinine though, so I also think it's good to have a fair balance of the two stats. However, I'm always going to lean more towards crit and let that 12% come naturally with gear. I haven't seen any math put out to suggest doing otherwise is superior, so I'm going by stat weights.

I haven't ran any sims for my pally, its an alt and I mainly do holy. The sims I run are for my rogue, and mostly using Simcraft, and my values generally don't completely match EJ. The point of my post there was mainly just to show how stat weights can change based on gear. My earlier post about saying how haste is better by far may have been a little hastily put together. I'll elaborate a bit on why I like leaning towards haste.

I find that haste works out better, even if crit has a higher value. Maybe its just due to the fight, bad luck, or my gear. Sims are nice for getting a good base on things, like when mastery is .6 and crit is 1.9, its obvious that mastery is worse. When things are fairly close though, I think it more depends on the situation to determine which is better. Once I get a bit better gear, I'll mess around more, try out reforging crit, ect. and if I find that I'm doing more DPS, I'll stick with that.