So cats were FIXED right?

[fizikz]

Yes. Cats were fixed. Eventually there will be no more cat druids on the server because they will be unable to reproduce.

I was waiting for this lol.

@OP: Honestly, I think you'll be fine if you choose feral as your main pvper this expansion. the SR change along with instant root glyph and the interrupt were a huuuuge deal for feral. Damage is damage, utility is king IMO.

[tekoix]

Feral is OP in PvP at the moment. They rape you, if they get low they hot themselves and go bear, get full health while in bear still dps'ing you and then go back to raping you in cat again.

Don't forget they can insta root you, cyclone, and have 2 different interrupts / stuns. Also they can never be slowed / peeled.

Anyone who thinks they aren't "OP" is just kidding themselves or stupid. They have way more utility then any other class in the game, with the same damage as dps and overpowered heals + bear form.

Will they get nerfed? Probably.
Will it be soon? Who knows.

[ProBubble]

Yeah, some people, like you, might have to get used to the mindset that feral is not a free HK like it has been for the last 3 expansions.

What server?.. feral have NEVER been free Hk's.. you wanna roll a priest healer my man.. they are the cannon fodder fo cata.. pvp gear is gonna be mentlaly powered to allow us to pvp heal.. otherwise its the end.. the figths over before we can cast mroe than a g heal.. bye bye..

[Shawaam]

The bleeds are simply too strong. If a feral druid gets a full rip up I am dead. But I do not think that's the biggest issue. I have more problems with them being 100% immune to any snares and roots, immunity to most CCs (can't be polymorphed, they can dispell fears with berserk), 30% passive movement speed increase and a charge.

They are unstopable! That is what I have a problem with. Now when they also have an interrupt, it's impossible to do anything against them besides spamming instants, honestly.

[Deleted]

Get some resilience and try again.

[scorch109]

oh and a pvp geared druid is 45% movement speed not 30%

[Treebagged]

Dear Blizz,

People who know how to play their class better than I know how to play my class are roflstomping me in PvP. Please make it more fair to us casuals who dont want to take the time to learn the spell pen cap or what abilitys my opponent does. I shouldnt have to learn how to counter, I'm a casual an my forum QQ matters.


Sincerely,


Everyone.

[Phrakshun]

Thanks for all your replies guys. I agree that damage can always be nerfed, but to be good at feral druids, you have to be good yourself. To those that continue with the 'immune to cc/root/snare' I only have 1 thing to say: Mana. And feral druids WILL run out of mana, even with their innervate seeing as its only worth ~25% of their total mana.

So I'll give it a whirl, it'll be very different from my spriest, but I always did love questing in bird form

[Balduvian]

The fact pounce bleed, rake and rip can eat through my 100k health pool. That's a bit of the issue right now.

Resi is more of an issue though. Ferals have always been OP when there wasn't alot of Resi around, and since you got only 100k HP you probably wear green/blue gear without resi on it.

I agree bleeds are over the top though, but I wouldn't say other dots are ALOT worse. (Moonfire critting 4.5k per tick etc.) It's lower than the usual 7-9k Rake/Rip crits, but other dots are usually also alot easier to (re-)apply, ranged, and sometimes deal instant damage aswell. Not to mention that those classes mostly deal more damage with other abilities than Feral Druids while their dots are ticking. (Locks, Boomkins, Spriests etc.)

I'm not trying to protect Feral Druids, but lately people seem to exxagerate to get the spec nerfed asap...
Let us have our time, for once.

[Fojos]

Feral is OP in PvP at the moment. They rape you, if they get low they hot themselves and go bear, get full health while in bear still dps'ing you and then go back to raping you in cat again.

Don't forget they can insta root you, cyclone, and have 2 different interrupts / stuns. Also they can never be slowed / peeled.

Anyone who thinks they aren't "OP" is just kidding themselves or stupid. They have way more utility then any other class in the game, with the same damage as dps and overpowered heals + bear form.

Will they get nerfed? Probably.
Will it be soon? Who knows.

Is that why there are so many feral druids at top of competitive pvp? Just shut up.

Duels don't count.

[Pantelija]

Yeah, some people, like you, might have to get used to the mindset that feral is not a free HK like it has been for the last 3 expansions.

Feral being free hk for last 3 expansions ?

What game have u been playing for the last 5 years? o.O

[juzalol]

What are you smoking?

Honestly, here goes constructive conversation...

In what way is feral OP? Please list out ways.
I may sound defensive because feral is my main, but I don't agree at all. The rake change was needed and was a fix, ferals are on level with every other class right now as far as I can tell.
Feral dots aren't any stronger than shadow priest or locks, if that is what you are talking about.

Actually they crit about twice what caster dots do
You can't get rid of them without a bop which makes them extremely hard to deal with

2 buttons, 100k damage doesnt sound too good in pvp.

Most likely Bleed damage will be reduced and cat mangle/shred damage buffed.

[Zetapuppy]

2 buttons, 100k damage doesnt sound too good in pvp.

I believe you've mistaken this for the Mage forum. (I can make generalizations and hyperboles too.) It takes more than two buttons to get off a good bleed setup on a target in PvE, much more a PvP target that's fighting back.

[juzalol]

I believe you've mistaken this for the Mage forum. (I can make generalizations and hyperboles too.) It takes more than two buttons to get off a good bleed setup on a target in PvE, much more a PvP target that's fighting back.

Ok ok, maybe that's a bit inaccurate...

But really, Pounce -> Rake -> Mangle -> Rip and you are dead 100% if you are not a healer.
Stuff you can't dispel and is instant cast shouldn't do as much damage as bleeds currently do.

And note that i dont want feral damage output to be nerfed. I want a portion of the damage to moved from Bleeds to Shred and / or Mangle. That way feral damage output will stay the same but the pressure doesn't remain so immense as it is now when you just hit 2 bleeds up and go AFK.

I mean really, the difference between feral sitting on you and feral sitting on polymorph is non existent if you get the bleeds on you.

[Koen]

Feral kitties are fine. Especially with people getting more and more resilience every day now the QQ will stop. And it already has reduced by a significant amount.

[deneweth]

Feral druids are still annoyingly OP in 1v1 pvp. I know the game isn't balanced around it, but its almost like they went out of their way to create the perfect storm of grief. Most classes will have to use cooldowns to even hope to counter the basic pounce mangle rake rip combo and the druid can in most cases root/cyclone/dash to heal up/instant flight form/restealth and return at their leisure to attack a wounded target with cooldowns used. Feral dps might not be OP in pve and group pvp but it is a tad too front loaded and passive. I used to play feral and really liked the model in BC when shreds were the bread and butter but bleeds were used as they were energy efficient dps. IMO mastery should have had something to do with energy regen, or chance to generate extra combo points.

I'm all for pvp, and that's why I'm on a pvp server but when one class has all of the tools that feral has to dictate the terms of the battle its just too one sided. I will admit that this problem has more to do with my faction being greatly out numbered and refusing to help out and usually mocking people that ask for help or "QQ" about gankers/campers in general chat.

I'm aware that QQ MOAR ITS PVP SERVAR but camping 5+ times is just being a dick. Picking off 83s that are questing mid battle at half health doesn't take skill. Striking from stealth to put up insane bleed ticks and then rooting, dashing off and healing isn't pvp.

[Zetapuppy]

Ok ok, maybe that's a bit inaccurate...

But really, Pounce -> Rake -> Mangle -> Rip and you are dead 100% if you are not a healer.
Stuff you can't dispel and is instant cast shouldn't do as much damage as bleeds currently do.

And note that i dont want feral damage output to be nerfed. I want a portion of the damage to moved from Bleeds to Shred and / or Mangle. That way feral damage output will stay the same but the pressure doesn't remain so immense as it is now when you just hit 2 bleeds up and go AFK.

I mean really, the difference between feral sitting on you and feral sitting on polymorph is non existent if you get the bleeds on you.

Maybe, but it'd be easier to make bleeds heal-dispellable (think LK's Infest) or some such rather than redistributing our damage at this point. Our mastery has been mechanically the same since the Beta, and if our primary damage source were to suddenly switch to physical damage instead of bleed damage, this would make it effectively worthless, going against Blizzard's design intentions of having mastery being attractive and scaling with gear. A change like this now would likely require our mastery to be entirely redone, which I don't think anybody could realistically expect to be balanced for a while at least.

There are also other ramifications from doing this, one being that to remain equally competitive we'd need to see a huge buff in Mangle's damage or energy efficiency (since you're less likely to be behind the target for long to get off more than a few Shreds,) a removal of Shred's positional requirement with some damage reduction, or maybe even a buff to our auto-attack damage. None of those are really very good ideas because they muck up the spec pretty quick; if Mangle and Shred do similar damage, this waters down our list of abilities plus it's going to be easier to just spam Mangle (a PvE consequence primarily, not that PvP would be unaffected,) and boosting white damage enough would probably put Savage Roar in danger of being too powerful.

So yeah, I won't argue bleeds aren't imbalanced with how Feral is at the moment... But the mechanic itself or maybe resilience, rather than the spec, is what should be addressed first if anything.

Feral druids are still annoyingly OP in 1v1 pvp

I'm aware that QQ MOAR ITS PVP SERVAR but camping 5+ times is just being a dick. Picking off 83s that are questing mid battle at half health doesn't take skill. Striking from stealth to put up insane bleed ticks and then rooting, dashing off and healing isn't pvp.

Much as it pains me to say the same tired line, PvP isn't balanced around the fight being a 1-on-1. Cats as a spec are innocent when it comes to who you got ganked by, though... Any class could have just as easily camped your corpse and killed you, which IS a dickish thing to do for sure. You just got unlucky enough to be camped by one with stealth.

[Jeffyjimbob]

I switched from feral to restoration for PvP personally. If I'm not busy being an idiot, and I have people with me (part of not being an idiot) ferals never present a problem, only an inconvenience. I can heal through their damage for a long time 1v1, me vs them. If I'm not alone and they're trying to take out the healer (me) I can certainly heal through it until my team stomps them. And that's with no more than about 3% reduced damage. I can't wait until I have full resil gear.

As for being OP 1v1, from what I've been told, cataclysms PvP is being built around (rated) battlegrounds, or at the very least, larger groups. Things aren't meant to be balanced 1v1.

[juzalol]

if our primary damage source were to suddenly switch to physical damage instead of bleed damage, this would make it effectively worthless, going against Blizzard's design intentions of having mastery being attractive and scaling with gear.

This argument would be stronger if mastery would not be the worst stat ie. for resto and moonkin.

And i'm not talking about like 50% bleed damage reduction, just enough to make people not die to just bleeds. They might as well just make the bleed durations shorter and offer a talent, glyph or just integrate it to the ability itself to let shred and mangle add another 2 or 3 seconds on the bleed duration(max of Xseconds).

That would obviously make the PvE rotation more complex which i have zero problem with myself as the feral rotation has been simplified quite a lot from wotlk. (just save up some energy before you apply rake)

I just believe that bleeds will get hit by a nerfbat in the near future but we'll see.

[mrwingtipshoes]

Ok ok, maybe that's a bit inaccurate...

But really, Pounce -> Rake -> Mangle -> Rip and you are dead 100% if you are not a healer.
Stuff you can't dispel and is instant cast shouldn't do as much damage as bleeds currently do.

That is terribly incorrect, a 3CP rip is NOT going to kill you unless you have 0 resilience and PVP is NOT balanced around having 0 of THE pvp stat....YES a 5cp rip + rake +mangle debuff is going to hurt if not kill you. Also i noticed you mentioned the fact that they are instant cast. When Spriests and locks have to use 5 globals to put up 2 dots well talk. By the time my dots are up Spriests will have VT, SW:P and DP on me and should be mindflaying me, thats 4 dots ticking in 3 globals + 1 cast time (Which with haste should be insanely quick) IF they have all 4 on me, I'm dead So clearly also nerf Spriest dots as well because if they spend time they can get up as much dot damage as ferals and hey theirs all heal them too!

And note that i dont want feral damage output to be nerfed. I want a portion of the damage to moved from Bleeds to Shred and / or Mangle. That way feral damage output will stay the same but the pressure doesn't remain so immense as it is now when you just hit 2 bleeds up and go AFK.

I mean really, the difference between feral sitting on you and feral sitting on polymorph is non existent if you get the bleeds on you.

So what then? people are going to get 1shot crit from a Shred with 0 resil and QQ on the forums because they got 1 shot and will be crying to have the damage moved back to bleeds.