10 vs 25

[Mongoose19]

I know Blizz said they will be the same dificulty but 25 raids are still harder. You breeze thru the 10 man while you are dazing your progress in 25 mans. Is the goal to totally kill off 25 man raids?

PS. Don't know what you think but for me 10 man world/server firsts arent the true "firsts" just a practice run before 25 world/server first.

[Ultima]

I've always considered 25 man raids to be easier. You have more freedom to pick classes while in 10 man you have to try your best to pick a "BiS" buff set up, and not only buffs, CC/Snares/Abilities/Bloodlust.

For example, on 10m if you were to fight Magmaw or Maloriak. Without a couple of your 5 DPS being a Hunter or Mage, you will find slight difficulty with the add kiting. On 25, you can just pile DPS wildly into the raid. You can bring the top players who lack required utility as you already have two Mages, Hand de Guldan Lock and a Hunter or five.

On Atramedes, in a 25 man raid you can just have a player (or two, if you must) sit out and focus on gong duty. On 10m, you will get a slap for trying to nearly 9 man a boss from start to finish, so you have players running in and out or standing a bit further back. At a wild guess, I'd probably send a healer to do gongs on 25 so they can swing back and just keep themselves up during the random AoE and any disc failures.

Apart from the "logistics" of gathering 25 decent players, I see advantage after advantage from a difficulty perspective.

[Deleted]

I've always loved the 25 man raiding, but 10 man is more fun for me, it's less chaotic and thus for me more fun.

[Yourtoy]

I like the classic raiding 40 man groups lol but lots of people would just die on purpose of going afk.

25 Mans were a little more challenging on wotlk indeed compared to 10 mans, my 10 man group did all wotlk content on week release.

Nowadays, I'd say 25 mans are easier then 10s.. Just like Ultima pointed out, you have the freedom of picking whoever you want, you can lose a dps to add another tank for fights like Maloriak. But if you do that on a 10 man grp he will enrage...

10 mans are cooler imho.

[Deleted]

I think they both are about the same but still in 10 man it's less people so if someone does something wrong it will hurt more... on 25 the hardest thing must be to find 25 good people.

[suleria]

25 man is much more difficult. There are alot of positioning mechanics in 25 man that are trivial in 10 man. It is alot easier for 10 people to have perfect execution than 25 people. On hard fights, if one person screws up your done, even if it is 25 man. I also notice the health multipliers make 10 man content die slightly faster than 25 man.The only problems with 10 mans is group comp matters somewhat more. There is so much overlap in terms of buffs and capabilities that group comp is fairly flexible. it is much easier to maintain a 10 man guild with appropriate group comp than a 25 man one.

[frijoles]

I'd disagree with the previous poster.

25m gave alot more room for a couple bad apples, and 10m really focuses on the individual. 25 we were able to carry one healer through most of the attempts, and in 10m the same healer somehow got a raid spot, and it REALLY REALLY hurt the raid.

Raid comp is much more important in 10's.


There are advantages and disadvantages of both, but if you have 25 good and competent players, I'd go 25. Unfortunately we don't have enough for 25 right now, so we've been rolling with 10.

[Bethink]

I have compiled some statistics regarding 25-man and 10-man raiding:
http://track.wow-klickers.org/encounters.lua

Let me say clearly that the klickers tracker is not 100% accurate in separating 10-man and 25-man raiding. However, it is close enough to note the following trends:

• 25-man guilds are generally further ahead in the progression than 10-man guilds. For example, 31% of 25-man guilds have defeated Cho'gal whereas only 6% of 10-man guilds have defeated this encounter.
• 10-man guilds dominate 25-man guilds at a ratio close to 1:10. There are ~600 25-man guilds vs. ~6000 10-man guilds. This shows that the 10-man format is hugely popular.

The reason that 25-man guilds are further ahead in the progression is mostly due to the fact that top tier guilds generally prefer the 25-man format. It will be interesting to see how these statistics evolve as more guilds move to the instance end bosses and heroic encounters over the next few weeks.

[suleria]

I'd disagree with the previous poster.

25m gave alot more room for a couple bad apples, and 10m really focuses on the individual. 25 we were able to carry one healer through most of the attempts, and in 10m the same healer somehow got a raid spot, and it REALLY REALLY hurt the raid.

Raid comp is much more important in 10's.


There are advantages and disadvantages of both, but if you have 25 good and competent players, I'd go 25. Unfortunately we don't have enough for 25 right now, so we've been rolling with 10.

On a hard fight, one bad player will wipe the group, even in 25 man. There are 2.5x the opportunities to have that player in 25 man. Getting 10 people that form a decent raid comp is much easier than finding 25 competent players period, especially when forming the 10 man out of a former 25 man guild (as most 10 mans do).

[Chingylol]

imo 10 man content is harder and I'll give a reason.

As a prot warrior, if I was in a 25man guild I could reach unhittable/near unhittable right now by reforging all my gear to dodge/parry/mastery.

However, in my 10m guild there are fights where it is only me, or maybe me and a rogue on interrupts. I MUST reforge pretty much all my gear to hit to be capped. Missing a shield bash on a ice lance on Twlight Ascendants or Arcanotrons electrical charges or Maloriaks electric storm can easily cause a wipe especially when progressing.

Because of this I will take more damage then a 25man tank in equal gear. Because I take more damage it costs healers more mana, mana that could have been used to heal a dps or themselves causing more room for error. In a 25man you most likely have 1-3 rogues, 1-3 dps wars, 1-3 DK's, multiple shaman, etc etc who are hit capped due to their dps role who can handle it. You dont have that luxury in 10mans with certain groups.

[Vlaria]

imo 10 man content is harder and I'll give a reason.

As a prot warrior, if I was in a 25man guild I could reach unhittable/near unhittable right now by reforging all my gear to dodge/parry/mastery.

However, in my 10m guild there are fights where it is only me, or maybe me and a rogue on interrupts. I MUST reforge pretty much all my gear to hit to be capped. Missing a shield bash on a ice lance on Twlight Ascendants or Arcanotrons electrical charges or Maloriaks electric storm can easily cause a wipe.

Because of this I will take more damage then a 25man tank in equal gear. In a 25man you most likely have 1-3 rogues, 1-3 dps wars, 1-3 DK's, multiple shaman, etc etc who are hit capped due to their dps role who can handle it. You dont have that luxury in 10mans with certain groups.

Pretty much this. 25man gives you the luxury of always having someone to do any given role. In 10man, not everyone is able to do everything. And while you can say "Oh but 10 GOOD PEOPLE ARE EASIER 2 FIND!" That's not a difficulty issue of content, that's your guild being full of bad apples. The contents difficulty is unaffected by bad apples. if you treat this situation like a simulator and assume everyone plays spot on etc, you will find that 25man is much more forgiving and gives more freedom.

However. I believe that some fights are easier on 25, while others are easier on 10man. 10man throne of winds is much harder than 25 I would say. I can't think of an example where 10man is easier off the top of my head as it's 4:30am. But I'm sure I will.