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  1. #1

    A new vote-kick system that has a rating/reputation

    We all know that the current LFR and LFD systems aren't stellar and that's because of the people we encounter in them. I've heard LFR called a cesspool and after tanking in it I know why that is.

    The vote-kick system isn't really helping that much (with it's mysterious internal cooldowns that I've not found any official information on). And in LFD the kick is limited to one person, which sometimes gets replaced by an even worse person.

    AFK'rs, ninja looters, griefers and so on. We've all encountered them time and time again. And even if they do get kicked they just pop back in another instance to cause another group problems.

    I've read quite a few threads on the blizz forums about the problems with the system so here is my suggestion and my open invitation to other people that want to add in their 2 cents on the matter.

    Reputation points. You can downvote someone in your group. The more people downvote that person the lower their rating goes and they get paired up with people with the same rating. The ratings can be reset in a month or so to give those people a new chance.

    Same goes for people with good rating - they get groups with similar rating to theirs. This would work in LFR as well as LFD.

    Those ratings should be visible to the player as an encouragement.

    I'm sure my suggestion has a lot of flaws but that's why I made a forum post about it, to hear opinions and suggestions on it.

  2. #2
    It has one critical problem. It still requires people to vote, people come in groups of friends and can easily destroy the reputation of someone else just because they can.

    No system of popularity can ever be used to determine quality, just popularity.

  3. #3
    This has been suggested more than once... It's too open to abuse. Downvote people you don't like or douchebags upvoting other douchebags.
    "When you understand why you dismiss all the other gods people believe in, you will understand why I dismiss yours."

  4. #4
    Any reputation system you can think up for WoW can be gamed by gangs of assholes, I mean, "guilds."

    So, let's just not go there.

  5. #5
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Yeah, it's very easily abused. And it would be a problem for new players doing their best but still not yet quite there. Same problem with people who are simply not geared very well. People would downvote others purely based on numbers when the players may be getting everything out of their gear that they can. I would not wish to put some sort of numerical reputation rating in the hands and subject to the whims of other players.
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  6. #6
    Scarab Lord Wildberry's Avatar
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    Why not just get rid of the cooldown? That'd fix a lot of issues.
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    Seriously. Can this guy please be banned from the forums?
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    Could we just get this fucking clown a ban or something? Pretty please?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    It has one critical problem. It still requires people to vote, people come in groups of friends and can easily destroy the reputation of someone else just because they can.

    No system of popularity can ever be used to determine quality, just popularity.
    The odds of this happening so often to you that it tanks your reputation are very slim.

  8. #8
    High Overlord Sqeen's Avatar
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    Although those people are the main reason I refuse to do LFRs anymore I think you will run into some problems with your system.

    If the reputation points reset every month as you suggested you will have those douchebags in your raids again at the beginning of every new month until the points settle again. Some may even find a way to trick the system with doing one LFR the mediocore and the next they will afk their way through for example.

    Such a system will also increase the queue times by quite a lot. Either the system only pairs you with people close to your rating and you will have hour long queues at the end of a week when most people are done with their runs or you will be paired with the douches again to even get a group that late into the week.

    Last but not least, don't forget that some of those AFK'rs, ninja looters and griefers also have friends who may have even the same attitude. They will push their ratings for each other like they prevent LFR kicks nowadays or some may even downvote random people just for fun.

    I'd really love to see some improvements regarding the average LFR/LFD experience but I doubt a player handled system will work out,

  9. #9
    I can see how it would be open to abuse. Jeez you guys really have no faith in people. I think that the player base is mostly good people with 1 or 2 rotten apples per group (and about 4/5 per LFR). You guys seem to think the reverse.

    When running normals people who actually try and do their best, even in new gear rarely or almost never get abuse, since from what I've observed the group finder finds matches based on ilvl as well. So you rarely get a group of high ilvls if you're low ilvl. It's mostly the trolls, afk'ers and people who simply don't listen that get targeted.

    Getting rid of the cooldown would probably be an easier solution.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Epi Kass View Post
    The odds of this happening so often to you that it tanks your reputation are very slim.
    No. The odds are very HIGH. Compounding effect = accelerating demise.

  11. #11
    Scarab Lord Zka's Avatar
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    They won't do this. 1) it's already been suggested several times and they said no 2) they want people to group with friends anyway, so it's unlikely that they will put effort into improving the pug experience.

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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Sqeen View Post
    If the reputation points reset every month as you suggested you will have those douchebags in your raids again at the beginning of every new month until the points settle again. Some may even find a way to trick the system with doing one LFR the mediocore and the next they will afk their way through for example.
    Perhaps a longer reset time for them?

    Such a system will also increase the queue times by quite a lot. Either the system only pairs you with people close to your rating and you will have hour long queues at the end of a week when most people are done with their runs or you will be paired with the douches again to even get a group that late into the week.
    Very true. It would add to the queue times. Didn't think of that.

    Last but not least, don't forget that some of those AFK'rs, ninja looters and griefers also have friends who may have even the same attitude. They will push their ratings for each other like they prevent LFR kicks nowadays or some may even downvote random people just for fun.
    True. Perhaps you can't vote on people in your guild/friendslist?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zka View Post
    They won't do this. 1) it's already been suggested several times and they said no
    I didn't know it was suggested several times. Should have researched it more.

    2) they want people to group with friends anyway, so it's unlikely that they will put effort into improving the pug experience.
    I will look into this a bit but I have a feeling pugs are the most run type of dungeons and raids at this point. Guild runs come in second to Pug runs. But maybe the new system in WoD that's based off OpenRaid and oQueue will fix this.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    It has one critical problem. It still requires people to vote, people come in groups of friends and can easily destroy the reputation of someone else just because they can.

    No system of popularity can ever be used to determine quality, just popularity.
    FFXIV just makes it so friends and premade party members cant recommend each other to stop commendation trading. If SE can do it Blizzard can.

  14. #14
    Not sure if this would work, but what if blizz could set some kind of basic thresholds for performance. When they are tuning they roughly know the level of DPS expected, so if they could put a basic flatline standard, there could be some kind of auto-rating system in place, although I am sure many would object to this. And they would probably find work arounds too, but maybe its a start?

  15. #15
    Dreadlord Cinnamohn's Avatar
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    'A limit of once per account' and 'only when in a group containing X% random players' would need to be applied regardless of the rating method. The second part would prevent you from voting on others, but others could still vote on you.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Amerissis View Post
    This has been suggested more than once... It's too open to abuse. Downvote people you don't like or douchebags upvoting other douchebags.
    Any system is open to abuse, including the current one. The real question is what is the behavior of the system when scaled up. You can't make that determination just by pointing at some random ways to abuse the system, because those abuses might in reality have a trivial impact on the overall behavior of the system.

    Personally I'd start by matching people with similar ilvls. I was briefly back in MoP, and the heroic dungeon experience through LFG was just running behind some guy oneshotting everything. Instead they should've matched me with people with the same ilvl gear so that I could've experienced the dungeon in a meaningful way. I think this would also fix some of the social issues, since when you realize that you can't count on someone to just carry you through the dungeons you need to actually start trying to play together with the other people, and the highly geared people don't feel like they're superior or just being exploited by Blizzard to carry bads, making them less likely to act like dicks towards the other people.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by kingbrab View Post
    Personally I'd start by matching people with similar ilvls.
    I think it already works like this. When I dinged 90 on an alt I rarely got really high ilvls in the groups I was in, on the other hand when I logged on my main I usally got very high ilvl groups.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    FFXIV just makes it so friends and premade party members cant recommend each other to stop commendation trading. If SE can do it Blizzard can.
    Yup this.....

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Azuraos View Post
    I think it already works like this. When I dinged 90 on an alt I rarely got really high ilvls in the groups I was in, on the other hand when I logged on my main I usally got very high ilvl groups.
    I don't know if ilvl has some impact, but it would be very easy to find out with statistical analysis if someone berthed to collect the data. In any case, I mean that you should never be grouped with someone with significantly higher or lower ilvl than yourself, which definitely does happen. I also think this should be applied to LFR as well to bring back at least some illusion of actually having to play the game to get rewards.

  20. #20
    The most annoying thing about the VTK system is, when you join a dungeon where the other 4 people are from the same guild and at some point they just decide to kick you out of no reason and you get the deserter buff and you are fucked.

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