Haste: the reason why pre-WotLK healers are generally better

[Florentzia]

Thing is good healers think about why they go oom and what they can do:Reforge haste(imo bad stat if u go oom) to spirit.

[Gladiator2009]

It's the same as every other expansion. Haste starts out slow (or non existent) and slowly gets better and better.

And I know different players have different playstyles, etc, but most Shaman in top guilds are already putting haste over pretty much every stat other than int.

[etsumii]

Fast forward finally to Cataclysm, where mana IS an issue. Haste has all but bottomed out for healers as a stat choice.
Thoughts?

Resto druids would like to have a word with you

[Littlebruddy]

I've played both before and after haste was introduced to the game as a holy paladin. In WotLK I stacked it and int like it was my job, I'll admit. In Cataclysm, I've been stacking haste and spirit, I think it gives me a good balance without feeling like my heals take 10 sec to cast. I don't sit around spamming my largest heal every second, but I want to be able to if the incoming damage suddenly spikes. With uncertain tanks who haven't learned how to stack avoidance, being able to heal through spikes is what causes PuGs to consistently compliment my healing. I've actually reached a point where I'm not certain where to invest; I'm comfortable with my spirit at ~2500 mp5 while casting and 20% haste (including my nifty 9% self-buff). I've written off pally mastery as near-useless, but I may play around with it soon. Crit seems like my most solid reforging option at the moment, though.

[smashzu]

I actually wrote the post in a hurry, after not getting any sleep last night. Re-reading it, there are a lot of things I could have clarified. Allow me to do so.

I was a progression raider in Vanilla. Saw every boss die up to 5/15 Naxx 40, when my guild hit the pre-expansion apathy wall. I was the healing officer for that guild from AQ to SSC in TBC, when I quit raiding until Ulduar. I've been raiding pretty casually ever since. As to your comment about what I've done in the game, my Armory page is in my signature, so you're welcome to look that up. I've raided one night, cleared three bosses in BWD, so that's about the extent of my Cataclysm raid experience.

Let me start by saying that I don't care about your experience pre-bc, because vanilla raiding (esp 40 mans) was not a representation of singular skill or group cohesion. All it was, was finding 40 people who could resist dripping drool on the keys long enough to down the boss. (Sadly, most 25m fights in reg wotlk dungeons follow this same pattern).

As for cataclysm, the three bosses that you killed were killed in quest greens about 9 hours after cataclysm was launched, so forgive me if I'm not overwhelmed.

I like to think I have a great understanding of healing, considering how long I've been doing it. That's kind of my point. I've been topping HPS numbers compared to our other healers while using a low haste build, but seeing as HPS in reality is very fight, class, and role dependent, it's kind of moot. The stat priority I'm going for right now is Int > Spi > Crit > Haste > Mastery (as a shaman). I can do this because I'm used to the healing model of Vanilla. I'm more reactive, I make the right spell decisions, instead of relying on Haste as a timing buffer. Whether that playstyle becomes obsolete in future tiers is not the question. I'm talking about right now. I did overlook Disc priests, but seeing as Holy is the new cool kid on the block, who cares about them?

So, in your great understanding of healing, you've chosen crit over haste, with or without acknowledging that haste is a linear hps increase, whereas crit is a random spiky hps increase. I'm sure you also realize that crit is responsible for large amounts of overhealing, and the only way that crit is reliable is at near 0% or near 100% so you can predetermine the amount of heals that will be done to the target, without overhealing or underhealing (when you expect a heal to crit, but it doesn't).

Haste made healing boring, imo. There is very little "skill" involved when healing at haste soft cap. It turns healing into nothing more than a snipe battle for higher HPS. I never once argued against haste being a bad stat overall. Again I said, at this point in time, it is a bad stat for several specs. The reason they never had to worry about mana and overheals is because of the nature of Haste at WotLK gear levels. With 333 and 346 gear, there is not enough regen to sustain a high haste build yet. In fact, I'm not even sure you can get enough haste rating to even matter, which is why crit comes out on top anyways, at least for shaman. It serves as regen through Improved Water Shield, as well as extra throughput from Ancestral Awakening. Compared to general throughput from haste, at current gear levels, it's not even close.

I currently have 16% haste self buffed, which while not overwhelming, certainly outperforms 16% crit (see above).

I hit 80 on this shaman right as 3.3 came out. The moment I hit 80, I went through all of the new ICC heroic 5-mans. Skipped the normals. So all of those that whined about how hard Heroic Halls of Reflection was, I healed it in greens/blues. It was easy, and anyone that says otherwise is bad. There's really no argument. Wrath heroics were a goddamn joke, no matter what gear level you were in. Cataclysm heroics are quickly becoming a joke, but at least the learning curve was much steeper this time around.

I healed heroic HoR within 2 hours of hitting 80 on one of my healers as well, so this isn't something to write home about. Skilled players take less and deal more damage, making the job of healer a joke at any gear levels. I don't think cataclysm is that hard either, but just because you run with groups that take next to no damage doesn't give you Carte Blanche to use a build that is inconsistent and poorly itemized.

TL;DR: Haste rocks, cata is easy, stop pining for vanilla, and go play the new Final Fantasy before crying about Cataclysm.

[lil pink pwny]

OP no understand game mechanics. OP look at generalizations and come to horrible conclusions.

Haste is still an important stat for many healers. This is masked by the fact that mana is a huge issue at current gear levels(and will possibly stay that way?) and hence most healers on the cusp of true understanding(but not quite there) assume that haste makes waste. The reality is players aren't going oom cause of casting too quickly, they are going oom because of casting the expensive heals when they have little choice otherwise. As another poster mentioned, they get caught in the weeds and eventually the only option is wasting copious amounts of mana on fast but low hp/mana ratio heals.

With appreciable amounts of haste those expensive heals don't need to be used as often, and the cheap stuff with good mana efficiency can be cast fast enough to cover most damage. If you look at the theory crafting numbers, haste is still the number one HPS stat for many classes. People are just afraid of it because having to drink between trash pulls is messing with their comfort zone. Crit may make for more slightly more efficient heals, but haste makes for more throughput and allows you to maintain chain casting super efficient spells. And if you think significant levels of haste aren't attainable at current gear levels you're sorely mistaken. Several best in slot healer items have only spirit and haste as secondary stats. Mix that with reforging and int/haste gems plus the myriad of haste enchants, and throw on top the various haste buffs several classes now have, and you can achieve levels significant enough to shave tenths of seconds off a heal, which is more significant than some people want to admit.

[Varabently]

Why are you trying to make it a reason or put a name to the difference in playstyles?

[Tehfred]

The only arguments against crit > haste is overheal. I'm sorry, but with Cataclysm health pools, if you're overhealing it's not because crit is unpredictable. It's because you're bad at healing.

[Device]

The problem is also that most healers want to have the dps at 100% even if that includes overhealing or giving me (warlock) heals after a pull after I life tap.

[ContentsMayVary]

OP doesn't play a priest, I assume.

(I've been healing with my priest since 2007 btw)

[Om1]

don't tell me think you can just flip a switch and suddenly go back to your vanilla style healing mode...

all I read here ea:
I AM BETTER THAN YOU
I AM BETTER THAN YOU
I AM BETTER THAN YOU
BECAUCE....nothing

[Hendrixstorm]

The only arguments against crit > haste is overheal. I'm sorry, but with Cataclysm health pools, if you're overhealing it's not because crit is unpredictable. It's because you're bad at healing.

Yeah, that's the only argument against crit. You're clueless.

[Deviante]

I agree fully with OP.

Healing in Cata is so much like Vanilla and TBC. Especially with Priest Using Heal reminds me of downranking Greater Heal, and it's awesome. Although they buffed Priest regen already, which imho was a mistake... There wasn't anything wrong with it to begin with, now I see myself having still 50% of mana left at the end of raid bosses still not having to blow my shadowfiend cooldown, lame. And yes, I still manage to top the meters, everytime.

[dancm]

Haste was abruptly introduced sometime in TBC (it was either during BT or Sunwell I believe).

Actually haste existed in Vanilla as a direct percentage stat. With patch 2 it was converted into a rating stat.

[Aran]

I didn't agree with "wrath=bad". Only thing I said is that the people who didn't heal anything except 30% buff normal ICC and overgeared everything else will HAVE to learn. People who played longer than that will have no problems.



There is not enough ilvl to get your haste and crit anywhere serious.

^^ This. I reforged all my gear to haste, and went from 2.39 to 2.28 or something. Can't say that i noticed it. Therefore i reforged all my haste to mastery. Yes, you heard me, mastery for a resto shaman. At Magmaw, u have no idea how good Healing Rain heals

[suleria]

Haste should currently be your 2nd or 3rd priority stat for a resto shaman depending on your mana situation. Mastery is pretty much a pure throughput stat that provides much less throughput than haste. Crit is a mixed throughput/regen stat. It is decent, but combining haste and spirit in the correct ratios provides both better throughput and mana regeneration.

[GhostShaman]

of course he was good in vanilla better in tbc and great in wrath! why wouldnt he be.. HE STARTED IN VANILLA! i mean cmon thats a insta " im better then you " badge I sure wish i could have one!!! NOT just saying all that post reply did was prove his point GJ!

---------- Post added 2010-12-19 at 06:53 AM ----------


ALSO for the record for the ima a vanilla player so im just better dudes out there. i never saw a complain to blizzard that wrath was to easy and not fun. i wonder why? and now when cata is harder ( but imo still fun) all you guys jump on the band wagon.

Taking things out of context is no way to troll a forum or try to prove a manipulated point. plus I was simply responding to this comment:

"
Some people who were amazing in Vanilla sucked in TBC. Some who were amazing in both sucked in Wrath. Some who were amazing right through Wrath will suck in Cataclysm. Each and every one of them will probably say the game's got easier and use this as an excuse to not participate in end-game. They'll either rage quit or otherwise sit on the sidelines doing dailies and whining to anyone who'll listen about the good ol' days."

[Seriss]

Haste has all but bottomed out for healers as a stat choice. Second only to mastery for resto shaman as the most useless stat.

Ah, I still remember stop-casting on Maulgar and Gruul back then when I had just respecced to Resto from Enhance <3

I was so awfully mistrustful of haste when it was introduced too... only you needed it in Sunwell. When you design encounters around your healers having a certain amount of haste, there you go, Blizz.

You still need a minimum of haste in Cataclysm if you want to play to the best of your abilities. A measly 7.38% haste (about 946 haste rating, if I'm not mistaken) is enough to grant you an extra tick on your earthliving. That is VERY important. Any time that I fall below that threshold, I reforge some crit to haste. That extra tick saves lives on heavy AoE encounters.