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  1. #41
    Stood in the Fire Vaelyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuuuu Drengen View Post
    Great guide

    But haste is bad then? Im stacking haste because im tied of being back to heal slow. For me its important to heal fast even for a normal Healing Wave
    It's funny because back in WoTLK if you were under 800 haste rating, you were doing it wrong. I had easily over 1k and could outheal significantly better geared healers simply because Chain Heal was inb4 anything they could cast. What the OP said in his guide was haste is important if your below 916 rating (this is what gets you the extra proc on RT, EL, and HR).

    However once you hit 916, it immediately becomes the least desired stat. I would even go so far as to say 916 is the "soft cap" for haste for a resto sham. Does this mean you are fail if you have 1200 haste? no. But does it mean if you have 950 haste, does it make more sense to chant and gem for int, certainly so. I have tested the numbers out on my level 85 shaman in normal 85's and have found it true that haste is fairly useless once you hit that soft cap.

    Thanks for the very informative guide. I found a couple of things that I had intuitively figured out but couldn't put into words when explaining it to a guildie.

  2. #42
    Thanks Radux.
    SQUEAK.
    --(The Death of Rats, Terry Pratchett, Soul Music)

  3. #43

    re:

    Someone sell me on ELW Glyph.

    I've never been a huge fan of the HoT because I can't predict when it will come into play.

    Is it nice for topping people off? Yeah, I guess, but I tend to value the ability to emergency heal someone up with Riptide + HS/GHW over relying on a proc to bring my healing meters up.

    Water Shield, on the other hand, gives me a very consistent boost to mana regen - regen which allows me to have the mana to save people when necessary and perform triage.

    Also, I think Haste is garbage right now. When more haste becomes available it might be a better stat, but right now you're giving up regen/crit/mastery to cast a few tenths of a second faster (if that).

    Healing is something you can't define mathematically as easily as something like damage - at the end of the day it's about preventing people from dying, which in the current environment, is often about having the spare mana for emergency heals rather than being able to sit there and top people off after the danger zone has already passed by (and thus someone else did the saving).

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Merkicus View Post
    Someone sell me on ELW Glyph.

    I've never been a huge fan of the HoT because I can't predict when it will come into play.

    Is it nice for topping people off? Yeah, I guess, but I tend to value the ability to emergency heal someone up with Riptide + HS/GHW over relying on a proc to bring my healing meters up.

    Water Shield, on the other hand, gives me a very consistent boost to mana regen - regen which allows me to have the mana to save people when necessary and perform triage.

    Also, I think Haste is garbage right now. When more haste becomes available it might be a better stat, but right now you're giving up regen/crit/mastery to cast a few tenths of a second faster (if that).

    Healing is something you can't define mathematically as easily as something like damage - at the end of the day it's about preventing people from dying, which in the current environment, is often about having the spare mana for emergency heals rather than being able to sit there and top people off after the danger zone has already passed by (and thus someone else did the saving).
    IMO the best thing about ELW is that it hardly ever overheals. And especially if you consider BotE it is there when you need it most.

    If you think you don't need it, dont fuss about it. The glyphs are slightly up for grab. On the other hand water shield glyph is largely wasted if you don't actually run out of mana.

    In cataclysm i tend to hardly ever top anyone off. Mostly because it's often not needed due to their selfheals, or my hots (healing stream / ELW) and increasing the output of ELW in that case feels like a good move to me.

    It's funny that you mention triage by the way. Because I feel like the ELW is the perfect fit for a healer that likes to work on his triage. Because i can see when someone has ELW i can (knowing the encounter doesn't contain any life threatening attacks at that time) rely on the hot to partially heal someone up, allowing me to either downscale on the heal or move to the next victim needing healing.
    I personally like the dynamic healing enviroment that ELW gives; but that's a personal preference.

    Whatever glyph you take is up to you. If i would come in mana troubles for 5 mans, i might be more inclined to drop riptide glyph for example. Purely because the riptides that go onto the tank are often refreshed before it runs its 15 sec duration, making the glyph less valuable. Although it's nice for healing a dps (for afore mentioned reasons of not healing someone to max with direct heals)

  5. #45
    The Patient RyanRetnolds's Avatar
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    I noticed you didn't link a spec. While not a huge deal (because you did last talents worth getting), it's still a bit of a turn-off

  6. #46
    Warchief Whisperawr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carighan View Post
    For PvP Frost Shock and Stoneclaw Totem add to the pool of useful glyphs, while Totemic Recall is rarely of use there (totems get killed by other people, not yourself).
    I wouldn't say Frost Shock is a very useful glyph because we already have 2 seconds more on the duration than the cooldown. More benefical glyphs are Glyph of Hex & Healing Stream, but I do agree with your decision on Stoneclaw glyph. It's very needed ^_^
    Last edited by Whisperawr; 2011-01-04 at 12:52 AM.

  7. #47
    Very nice guide 9,5/10 :P

  8. #48
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    I'm a big fan of Crit for Resto Shamans, but it is in no way equivalent to Int "point for point" as you say in your guide. Int gives us increased Healing Power, along with increased Mana and a small amount of Crit rating. More Int also increases your regen through Replenishment, Hymn of Hope, etc. There's really no comparison, which is why you gem for Int whenever possible, or Int/Spirit, Int/Haste, Int/Crit.

  9. #49
    One very important pointer. In heroics, unless you're doing something horridly wrong, you're not going to be hitcapped, and therefore, your CC is going to be unreliable at best. if push comes to shove you might beable to pull it off, but it's really the roll of the dice as to how long it will stay contained (if you manage to CC in the first place.)

    TC is great in 5mans, I can switch entirely to healing surge and weave in lightning bolts when everything controlled to regain the burned mana. I haven't played with it in raids, as i find most of the RP yells bosses do will proc water shield for some reason (though it could be the aggro pulse)

  10. #50
    The Patient Madhoof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eijnar View Post
    Really ? Be my guest and show me since it is more or less the other way around - atleast if you look at guilds who push +10/12.
    I'm really looking forward to get convinced, but as I said: it's the first time I even hear about someone using WS glyph. No matter if pre-raiding, 10/12 or even HC modes. All "better" guides I know suggest ES,RT,ELW; every "better" Shaman I know (personally, virtually or just "knowing" his armory entry) uses this combo, so it is indeed a big surprise for me, that someone suggests to use WS.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackblade View Post
    TC is great in 5mans, I can switch entirely to healing surge and weave in lightning bolts when everything controlled to regain the burned mana. I haven't played with it in raids, as i find most of the RP yells bosses do will proc water shield for some reason (though it could be the aggro pulse)
    If you need TC in 5 mans to come along with mana either you or your group is doing something terribly wrong.
    Last edited by Madhoof; 2011-01-04 at 07:23 AM.
    R.A.I.D - Resto at its destiny


  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Madhoof View Post
    I'm really looking forward to get convinced, but as I said: it's the first time I even hear about someone using WS glyph. No matter if pre-raiding, 10/12 or even HC modes. All "better" guides I know suggest ES,RT,ELW; every "better" Shaman I know (personally, virtually or just "knowing" his armory entry) uses this combo, so it is indeed a big surprise for me, that someone suggests to use WS.
    Could you give me a definition of a "better" shaman ? Since that does not include shamans from Ensidia, Paragon or Method - Not suggesting that they all are "amazing zomg", however, they are raiding content where they have to push there mana to the maximum and thereby a 177 mp5 increase is fucking amazing no matter how you spin it.

    What you keep forgetting is that a lot of guides only focus on pure HPS - Which is fucking retarded since you cannot calculate how to heal and heal most efficient. Healing isn't about being #1 on recount, healing is about keeping tanks, yourself, fellow healers, dps and maybe pets alive and you will get different assignments in regards to that. Sure, if you stand at 50% mana after each fight then you maybe can switch it, but then take a look: Did anyone die ? If so could you have saved him by using e.g. HS despite the fact it burns your mana? Do you use 8 healers for a fight which does not require more than 6 top 7 healers?
    Herp derp.

  12. #52
    The Patient Madhoof's Avatar
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    So if world top ~3 do X then, world top ~4 to ~50, are all retards? Or world top ~100 to ~1000, that also make decisions based on facts and personal expierience, are all wrong? As we both know that this point doesn't lead to anything, I just want to mention, that wasn't the point I wanted to discuss with you.

    I just wanted to know what your reason is to tell that everyone should use WS glyph. I don't question the facts you wrote about optimizing manapool but I question the fact, that something that is necessary for a handfull of hardcore players, is automatically the best for the rest of us. Do you tell people to spec into elemental precision just because some high end shamies use it in specific situations? I guess not, at least if I followed your posts correctly. So why then doing it with WS glyph?
    R.A.I.D - Resto at its destiny


  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Wugan View Post
    I'm a big fan of Crit for Resto Shamans, but it is in no way equivalent to Int "point for point" as you say in your guide. Int gives us increased Healing Power, along with increased Mana and a small amount of Crit rating. More Int also increases your regen through Replenishment, Hymn of Hope, etc. There's really no comparison, which is why you gem for Int whenever possible, or Int/Spirit, Int/Haste, Int/Crit.
    Like I say in the guide, until you're happy with your AF-uptime, you very much want to value Crit highly. An often overlooked fact is how much "effective" healing you lose if you can't reliably supply a tank with AF, as he now takes ~11% more physical damage compared to having the buff.
    In other words you could exchange crit for int - the factor is minor anyway as it's the gems - but you may end up effectively doing less healing on a tank compared to the damage he takes. This is even more important in raids where out of 2-7 healers supplying the odd healing effect on the tank, you could be the sole one supplying the AF buff. If you can't keep it up to a point where you're satisfied, all healers are affected and you'd cause a ripple-effect with less healing on the raid as a result of more twitchy healing on the tank.

    So yeah, for healing power Int > Crit. That's not a discussion. Still it can be that Crit is very much up near the top of your priority because the AF effect is important, not because of it's effect on your healing output.

    I reckon this is a perspective not everyone will share ofc. If you raid with say... 1 Resto Shaman + 2 Priests, you'll rarely if ever have any issue keeping AF at all. OTOH if you raid with 1 Shammy + 2 Druids, it's all your doing and you either need more crit or need to often use HS to get better chances for a proc. Especially if you then also struggle for mana Crit becomes a very good stat as it does both.

    But again, you're right, for healing power Int is definitely better. However, this is a very real case where healing isn't everything.
    SQUEAK.
    --(The Death of Rats, Terry Pratchett, Soul Music)

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Madhoof View Post
    So if world top ~3 do X then, world top ~4 to ~50, are all retards? Or world top ~100 to ~1000, that also make decisions based on facts and personal expierience, are all wrong? As we both know that this point doesn't lead to anything, I just want to mention, that wasn't the point I wanted to discuss with you.
    Firstly, I pointed the three guilds out due to everyone is familiar with them and it undermined your "better shaman" theory and if you had done a minimum of research you would find that 95% of every restoration shaman playing in a top 100 guild has one glyph in common and only one = WS.

    But I agree this leads nowhere - However, as another poster pointed out it isn't clear if this is a "I've just started raiding and does not really know that much about my class and how to gem / spec / prioritize my stats" or a "Mildly experienced guide".

    My reason for strongly encourage people to use WS glyph is because it is the best we got currently since mana alfa omega these days. Sure, they are hardcore, however, the main differences is a) They spend more time (and is usually better players), b) they "undergear" the content they currently is raiding and most of us will have 5-10ilvl gear when we see the content they defeated. However, does this mean that we will take less damage ? Hardly, tanks could perhaps, but I am going on a line and saying that you will need to heal more due to whoring damage dealers / sloppy reaction time. However, with the logic that WS is the "worst" why isn't people reforging spirit into something else since mana clearly not is an issue for them ?
    Herp derp.

  15. #55
    Lovely guide, well written and excellent pointers. Helped quiet alot with my healing^^.

    What shockwave? Wanna know!

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by KxB View Post
    Could you explain gemming? I've heard multiple people saying that we still stack Haste, but others claim that we should stack Spirit. T_T
    Neither of those. Gem intellect for red sockets, int+spirit for blue socket and int+haste into yellow socket.

    Also, in the discussion above I´ve seen few really bad suggestions. So, it really depends on what role you are assigned in the raid. Whether you are tank healer or raid healer. If you are tank healer, stats priorities are INT > SPI (as long as you can go oom) > Mastery > Haste > Crit, when yíoua re assigned for raid healing, it is INT > Spi (as long as you can go oom) > Haste > Mastery > Crit.

  17. #57
    The Patient Madhoof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzenal View Post
    So, it really depends on what role you are assigned in the raid. Whether you are tank healer or raid healer. If you are tank healer, stats priorities are INT > SPI (as long as you can go oom) > Mastery > Haste > Crit, when yíoua re assigned for raid healing, it is INT > Spi (as long as you can go oom) > Haste > Mastery > Crit.
    You can't generalize that either.

    @Tank Healing: that might be true for some people, but as Eijnar stated above, there is a good reason why a shaman could stack crit as tnak healer for some reason. So your recommendations can be true, but the need not

    @Raid healing: same thing here; you can't say this is the only way to go
    R.A.I.D - Resto at its destiny


  18. #58
    I currently stack Haste and I absolutely love it.

    What you should never forget is that something that sounds amazing in theory may not actually be practical. Many of you are stuck in these very weird healing stigmas where an ENTIRE healing model is simply HPS or HPM, or some weird variant. A healing strategy is circumstantial, specific to boss fights, not necessarily an entire expansion.

    The argument that Haste has an inverse effect on mana regeneration is incredibly lacking, and this is apparently the primary reason people dislike Haste. I think the issue is that people are still thinking from a WOTLK mentality where Haste doesn't work unless you're literally casting a spell every single second. You also need to remember that spell doesn't necessarily need to be a Healing Surge or a Healing Rains or a Chain Heal. It could be our incredibly efficient Healing Wave, which is nearly mana neutral, even at high Haste levels. Haste allows me to more liberally use Healing Wave and save my other tools for more demanding situations, and it also allows me to use Lightning Bolts faster, allowing me to re-enter the healing forefront sooner, and giving me a direct mana gain.

    Also, whether I have 0 Haste or whether I have 2000 Haste, specific boss mechanics require specific tools to properly heal them, and I'm going to use that tool regardless of what Haste I have. This allows me to cast an entire two or three more Chain Heals than you normally would, which means 8+ more opportunities for a crit, and thus also an IWS proc, and an ELW proc. This does also mean I lose a little more mana than you, but when HPS is necessary to overcome specific circumstances in a boss fight, I will gladly spend my mana to accomplish it. Which regarding mana, I have yet to have my mana be seriously tested, and Telluric Currents has thus far been literally cheating the entire system on obvious bossfights.

    While the Haste scaling is certainly a tragedy in terms of HoTs, I absolutely love having faster HoT ticks. Also, both Mastery and Crit both have a DR similar to Haste, so it's unfounded to accuse Haste of being horrible to stack. The higher your Crit gets, the less results you'll notice from further stacking it. Also, remember that Crit is riddled with theory, and until you reach a very respectable level, it will always have it's share of consequential and favorable results. I still have moments where my RT>HS>HS rotation doesn't produce a single crit. Also remember that Mastery is an analog to Crit, so to maintain favorable stats, you have to balance Mastery, Crit, and Spirit, whereas I just focus on Haste and Spirit, picking up Crit where I can't find those two.

    This does not mean I ignore Crit, I absolutely love it as well, it's just not something I would sacrifice Haste for. As I mentioned, mana has yet to be a serious problem, so I'm already considering dropping Spirit in favor of more Crit, and when I obtain the T11 4-piece, I will most certainly be dropping more Spirit for Crit.

    In regards to the Water Shield Glyph, if you are having mana issues, then this glyph is necessary. Mana Regen scales in terms of providing high Effective Mana per each point, so this isn't necessarily static, but it is dependent on your current gear. I encourage you to absolutely always have the ELW/ES glyph in sight for replacing WS as soon as you can, though. It is irrational to raid with only 2 Prime Glyphs, which is the assumption you are not going OOM. Remember that your best mana regeneration is good DPS, so from the perspective of hardcore raiding shamans who probably have hardcore DPSers, this glyph does appear to be an obvious misfire.

  19. #59
    Keyboard Turner pandaeyes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzenal View Post
    Gem intellect for red sockets, int+spirit for blue socket and int+haste into yellow socket.
    What about for PVP then? My friends want me to heal them in BGS and I got my 4 set, just unsure of what to gem. =/

  20. #60
    Cookie Monster Radux's Avatar
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    Well PvP is a whole different monster. You've got to make sure you're hit capped and have at least 200 spell penetration. However, in BG's you'll end up probably going Int or Spirit. Depends what you need more: throughput or longevity (or find a good balance!).

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