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  1. #1

    Elemental Shaman vs. Rogue. Is there a point?

    This post is just a rage. Feel free to tell me I am bad or doing something wrong, as I welcome all criticism in this post.

    I'm curious, how to you elemental shaman do against the typical rogue backstab 1v1 situation while questing?

    Over the course of playing my elemental shaman, I have all but given up when they get the drop on me. I've heard plenty of people say something like "If a rogue can't stun lock you 100% of the time while killing you he is horrible"

    Elemental shamans have no stuns, no stun breakers and no defensive cooldowns. Yes we have other stuff but none of those. Is that where the big difference is?

    I almost never have a pvp trinket on while doing my dailies. Is that as bad as it sounds? Or should I be able to handle them half or most of the time without one?

    Right now I got a rogue in TB who loves me. He spends all day in there. It's not secret rogues are good for pvp, and I'm not calling for a nerf on them, I'm just curious how a "good" elemental shaman should do against a good rogue. Am I expected to lose 90% of the time when they backstab me? Am I retarded for going out into the world without a pvp trinket being the dranei shaman that I am? Or should I still have a fighting chance all the time w/o a trinket if I am doing everything properly?

    As it stands, I get stunned. I thunderstorm. He has more than enough time to get back before I get out. When I get out I either hex, healing surge, frost shock, or gift of naaru. It seems no matter what strategy I use it's not good enough. And if at any point I get a healing spell or lightning bolt interrupted, I am completely fucked. Idk enough about boomkins and shadow priests to compare. I've never had a problem with boomkins though.

    Last night, he got me while I was typing in the TB outpost. I was more or less ready to defend, but I didn't. I didn't want to give him the satisfaction. I just pretended to be afk so he wouldn't feel as good when he eventually killed me.

    Any suggestions? I am about ready to reroll dwarf atm, but I'd rather figure out what I am doing wrong, if anything.

  2. #2
    Carry a pvp trinket and let them use all their stuns on you. Pop the trinket, heal, thundershock, unleash elements, lava burst, that one slowing totem thingy.

  3. #3
    you can thunderstorm while stunned. you should glyph stoneclaw, trinket, hex, stoneclaw, keep FS on him, pwn, pwn, pwn, with all the rogue nerfs i RARELY get killed by one as enhance, ferals on the other hand....

  4. #4
    it's a tough matchup for sure. if you're getting ganked a lot, best carry a pvp trinket.

  5. #5
    More like "Elemental Shaman vs. Anyone Else. Is there a point?"

    Ele's burst is down, goes OOM fast, and is still squishy as ever. Go Enhance and only have troubles with feral druids, frost mages, and DKs at times.
    1. Search feature never works for me 2. No, there isn't a thread answering exactly what I'm asking for

  6. #6
    need more resil imo

  7. #7
    You gotta swing your weight around, burst is what we have, use it. if he opens use the roots first, ghost wolf so just so he cant melee you/flame shock on the move, then you gotta burst the sucker with a bolt/instant bolt and lava use frost shock and proceed to run away, ghostwolf if hes got crippling on you and try t avoid him till it wears off with wolf and unleash frost/shock and earthbind, soon as its off start up in spiritwalkers and hit im as hard as you can.

    We dont have great mana anymore, so healing as ele is meh, which basically means dont even go defensive, you will die, just slower

    Use glyphed stoneclaw and hex on cd, you should have em glyphed for pve and they work wonders in pvp
    Last edited by USMValor; 2010-12-22 at 07:48 PM. Reason: forgot

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by cmilla View Post
    This post is just a rage. Feel free to tell me I am bad or doing something wrong, as I welcome all criticism in this post.

    I'm curious, how to you elemental shaman do against the typical rogue backstab 1v1 situation while questing?

    Over the course of playing my elemental shaman, I have all but given up when they get the drop on me. I've heard plenty of people say something like "If a rogue can't stun lock you 100% of the time while killing you he is horrible"

    Elemental shamans have no stuns, no stun breakers and no defensive cooldowns. Yes we have other stuff but none of those. Is that where the big difference is?

    I almost never have a pvp trinket on while doing my dailies. Is that as bad as it sounds? Or should I be able to handle them half or most of the time without one?

    Right now I got a rogue in TB who loves me. He spends all day in there. It's not secret rogues are good for pvp, and I'm not calling for a nerf on them, I'm just curious how a "good" elemental shaman should do against a good rogue. Am I expected to lose 90% of the time when they backstab me? Am I retarded for going out into the world without a pvp trinket being the dranei shaman that I am? Or should I still have a fighting chance all the time w/o a trinket if I am doing everything properly?

    As it stands, I get stunned. I thunderstorm. He has more than enough time to get back before I get out. When I get out I either hex, healing surge, frost shock, or gift of naaru. It seems no matter what strategy I use it's not good enough. And if at any point I get a healing spell or lightning bolt interrupted, I am completely fucked. Idk enough about boomkins and shadow priests to compare. I've never had a problem with boomkins though.

    Last night, he got me while I was typing in the TB outpost. I was more or less ready to defend, but I didn't. I didn't want to give him the satisfaction. I just pretended to be afk so he wouldn't feel as good when he eventually killed me.

    Any suggestions? I am about ready to reroll dwarf atm, but I'd rather figure out what I am doing wrong, if anything.
    isn't spiritwalker a stun/snare breaker as well as allowing you to cast on the move?

    could be wrong, i play enhance and hardly ever pvp so i dont really know what im talking about.
    Last edited by serif; 2010-12-22 at 07:49 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by fatalaeon View Post
    you can thunderstorm while stunned. you should glyph stoneclaw, trinket, hex, stoneclaw, keep FS on him, pwn, pwn, pwn, with all the rogue nerfs i RARELY get killed by one as enhance, ferals on the other hand....
    That's good to know, but OP isn't asking about enhance.

  10. #10
    First post here just because the OP might check back. I haven't played ele in awhile because i have liked enhance so much.

    I would love for anyone to give some detailed information here on this match up. Its a very very hard fight as i have seen it. You can't just TS and then hex. If you are in melee range of a rogue and cast you are just asking to be interrupted and locked out. If the rogue doesn't interrupt you then they are bad. Bad rogues are not nearly as hard as really really good rogues.

    I would say that YES you need to carry your pvp trinket for dailies. Dailies are not hard enough you need raiding gear anyway.

    If they open with CS stun then wait until there is 2 seconds left on the timer and then TS. That should give you the time you need to do something before they get back to you. If you can also always have earth bind down when questing so that hopefully it and searing totem are already up. I have heard that at this point you can either frost shock or hex. If you can frost shock you can try to kite them a bit with ghost wolf. If you hex them you can try and get an empowered lava burst off.

    I have heard you need to keep flame shock on them and searing totem down and basically play defensive and heal as much as you can and let them be worn down only going for lava bursts when you know you can get them off. Have hex glyphed and have stone claw glyphed and always be juggling between earth bind roots and stone claw shield on them. Watch for COS and don't waste a shock on it. Make sure to get a flame shock on asap after it is down unless them also vanish at the same time. If they do you can try to get them out with magma and nova but don't do it in the time when they are immune to being popped out.

    Are you in a guild? If so an easier strategy (as this is not an arena thread) is to get a friend who has stealth to come and shadow you and when this rogue starts in on you then you 2v1 them.

    You can also roll or transfer to a pve server. You can also build an enhance gear set.

    Good rogues 1v1 against just about anyone are hard. Maybe someone will give a better strat.

  11. #11
    You're fucked. Rogue opens with garrote pops shadow dance and gets you down to 50% even though you're wearing 2700 resi and then he cloaks and vanishes and does whatever he pleases with you :>

  12. #12
    Warchief coldbear's Avatar
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    pvp trinket always while questing or level in instances or BGs, if not you're free meat

    learn what to trinket and what not to trinket

    play a rogue alt to learn how they work, then you'll have an idea about how to counter them

  13. #13
    Brewmaster Salech's Avatar
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    Trinket, Earthbind totem, insta Ghostwold, Glpyhed Stoneclaw, hex, thunderstorm, you have to try and kite the rogue so he does not hit you to much, which can be hard when he gets the opener.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobzor View Post
    You're fucked. Rogue opens with garrote pops shadow dance and gets you down to 50% even though you're wearing 2700 resi and then he cloaks and vanishes and does whatever he pleases with you :>
    i agree, i am a pain in the ass right now. a thing you could do: specc heal, cast earthshield and laugh while watching how every 1k whitehit replenishes 3,5k of your health. :>

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobzor View Post
    You're fucked. Rogue opens with garrote pops shadow dance and gets you down to 50% even though you're wearing 2700 resi and then he cloaks and vanishes and does whatever he pleases with you :>
    I rerolled a rogue for Cata. I'm only at 74 but if I get the opener against pretty much anyone there's a real good chance I'll win. With all the CDs and abilities it's hard to combat. Especially at lower levels when most aren't running around in resil gear or level 85 HP values.

    Also I do as many people do on PvP realms. I quest in whatever PvP gear I have, trinket and all. And am always spec'd for PvP when I quest. You always gotta be ready on a PvP realm. :-)

  16. #16
    to counter the rogue in 1v1 you need to thunderstorm when he cheap shots / stuns and use trink on kidney shot (never on sap/cheap shot) At this point its a dps race to make the other person go defensive. Hit Flame Shock, unleash weapon, elemental mastery , lava burst, and kite his rogue ass with earthbind and spiritwalkers grace. Possibly the damage reduction on elemental mastery glyph would be helpful ( 20% damage reduction from all sources for 15 seconds.) Now the hard part is when they go defensive....aka vanish/cloak of shadows. Thunderstorm if its up when they restun ( cd reduction glyph). Could possibly switch to rockbiter weapon imbue for a 5% damage reduction and stone skin. Basically burst the rogue down. They may use smoke bomb anywhere inbetween the fight...GO INTO THE CLOUD and smash his face in or thunderstorm him out. It is a tough fight but its doable.

  17. #17
    Thanks for all the help guys. I've have also just been reminded that using frostbrand weapon instead of flametongue can be helpful to. this turn yous UE into another frost shock basically, so i should be able to kite even better. We''ll see though. Thanks again.

  18. #18
    Epic! Spectrez's Avatar
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    I've actually seen a huge increase in survivability with ele shams vs rogues. In Wrath it was like rogue vs ele sham YEAH GOOD LUCK SHAMAN. But now... I've killed so many rogues 1v1. Just make sure you don't thunderstorm when they have Cloak of Shadows on, and trinket on the kidney and instant gohst wolf and run away while you use earthbind to root.

  19. #19
    Yeah, sub rogues are OP for pvp against ele shaman.

    B4 you think I'm just saying that cause i'm bad hear me out.

    Really good sub rogues can kill any ele shaman no matter what you do.

    Think about it, really good ele shaman kill really good rogue? Never.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-10 at 09:46 PM ----------

    It sounds good in theory, but /no, that only works against bad or undergeared rogues. They have utility to deal with everything you said. A good full cata geared rogue is going to get your life to 50% b4 it's time to thunderstorm. There is nothing you can do to win. Yeah you might prolong your death but that's it.

    Their stuns and interrupts are way to aggresive towards eleshaman who are soft and also we need to cast to cc, heal, or do big damage. Most of our totems are complete crap, and the glyph for the damage absorning totem absorbs a crappy 16K damage at most, that's crap, he'll burn through that in an instant. Don't tell about elemantal mastery ONE instant lava burst isn't going to do crap but tickle him. W/E, I hate fricken rogues can't wait till mop nerf bat that bastards.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-10 at 09:49 PM ----------

    meh, I hate rogues, if you are an elemental shaman and you encounter a good geared rogue, you are screwed. You can theory about, "bla bla just do this and that" /no you're dead.

  20. #20
    You can't win. This is one of the most one sided matchups in the game. Worse than frost mage v warrior.

    Rogues don't stun lock anymore. Whoever is telling you that is misinformed.

    But regardless, between gouge, kick, cloak, vanish, blind and sap, a good rogue will never let you get a single cast off.

    You can't peel them, you can't kite them, you can't cast on them.
    The only damage you will do is FS > EM > LvB, and then maybe an ES after you generate a few more lightning orbs.

    Unless you're rolling with 5k resil, and they're in 5man pve gear or worse, you will not win.

    edit:
    he steps the thunderstorm, cloaks earthbind, and you're dead. Doesn't matter if you're running frostbrand, because you're slowed 70% too. Doesn't matter if you open a gap with ghostwolf, because he just sprints back onto you. Keeping in mind that you're stunned/gouged half the time anyway. EVEN IF you somehow get an upperhand on him after all that (which you won't, because you're out of tricks) he just vanishes and reopens on you.
    Last edited by asharia; 2012-07-11 at 07:42 AM.

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