1. #1

    Slice and dice for pvp rogue?

    as a pvp rogue in arena do u use slice and dice?

  2. #2

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heky View Post
    yes.
    This.

    In an environment where damage and energy regeneration is key, you want Slice 'n' Dice.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heky View Post
    yes.
    No.

    depends on Situation, Setup and whatsoever.

    i didnt play arena very much yet (21 wins - 7 losses, mate's a holy pally), but i didnt need it yet, since my Styles are (because Mut Rogues are kited like hell) hitting more often than my standart Weapon Strikes. but If you can stick to your target to hit it more than twice in 5 seconds, it sure is viable. (Still, i wouldnt use it just now because i like 15-30k Envenoms much better to burst around.)

    @Bruin: if you arent combat specced (and i hope u are not) you gain no energy out of imped Speed. (SnD isnt counting as haste.)
    Last edited by Crystalchild; 2010-12-22 at 05:39 PM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Bruinn View Post
    This.

    In an environment where damage and energy regeneration is key, you want Slice 'n' Dice.
    Slice and Dice increases weapon speed only, so, it does not increase energy regen.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crystalchild View Post
    No.

    depends on Situation, Setup and whatsoever.

    i didnt play arena very much yet (21 wins - 7 losses, mate's a holy pally), but i didnt need it yet, since my Styles are (because Mut Rogues are kited like hell) hitting more often than my standart Weapon Strikes. but If you can stick to your target to hit it more than twice in 5 seconds, it sure is viable. (Still, i wouldnt use it just now because i like 15-30k Envenoms much better to burst around.)

    @Bruin: if you arent combat specced (and i hope u are not) you gain no energy out of imped Speed. (SnD isnt counting as haste.)
    I´ll have to agree with this. I haven´t played my Rogue in a long time but personally I would use it mainly depending on the situation. Against a Healer you will want high DMG output and that´s when I can see Slice and Dice be useful but otherwise there are alot of other cpt abilities that come firsthand.

    Easy go easy go easy go easy go easy go easy go easy go boy

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by sabrelime View Post
    Slice and Dice increases weapon speed only, so, it does not increase energy regen.
    Increase in weapon speed = more attacks = more regen

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swiftninja View Post
    Increase in weapon speed = more attacks = more regen
    i still believe that, if not combat specced, the speed doesnt mean anything to Energy. (teach me a better if i am wrong with that)
    Still, if a target is blinking away, an Envenom is making more sense than energy you would have also gained while catching up. :>

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swiftninja View Post
    Increase in weapon speed = more attacks = more regen
    Only if you're Combat. And if you are, you're doing it wrong.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Swiftninja View Post
    Increase in weapon speed = more attacks = more regen
    What if your combat? Do you play combat in PvP?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crystalchild View Post
    i still believe that, if not combat specced, the speed doesnt mean anything to Energy. (teach me a better if i am wrong with that)
    Still, if a target is blinking away, an Envenom is making more sense than energy you would have also gained while catching up. :>
    You're right about energy regen, my bad, however, for Shadowtep, where damage fucking sucks right now, excess points going into increased white damage is never a bad thing. If there's a time in arena where you DON'T want damage output, you're probably doing it wrong. Your main focus is still keeping recup up.

    As for Mutilate, if you're not keeping SnD up, you're fucking up, considering Envenom's refresh, and the fact that the spec is only good for high damage output and fail mobility.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruinn View Post
    You're right about energy regen, my bad, however, for Shadowtep, where damage fucking sucks right now, excess points going into increased white damage is never a bad thing. If there's a time in arena where you DON'T want damage output, you're probably doing it wrong. Your main focus is still keeping recup up.

    As for Mutilate, if you're not keeping SnD up, you're fucking up, considering Envenom's refresh, and the fact that the spec is only good for high damage output and fail mobility.
    i had it at first, but i respecced to let away SnD Completely, to focus on imped Mut damage and CP gained thru Fin's. And muti is hitting nice with glad wpnz. :3

    @Sub damage:

    the only problem are heavy armored classes, and yup - on them, the dmg is a sad laugh. but even if so, in the right comp and well prepared, Sub is still able to do 'something'. (Like shadowdancing an Arms Warrior for 40k+) .. but in the end, sub needs a buff to be kept alive, once everyone has its ass full of Resilence.

  13. #13
    at crystalchild

    i agree with the statement you make, depends on comp/setup etc
    imo for mut envenom
    but im playing sub, so im using SnD(+mastery increases it)

    so in the end you still use it, just depends when/setup^^

  14. #14
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    Hey there Heki,
    i am theorycrafting about it right now, i'll come up with my data soon. (may take some minutes)

    ---------- Post added 2010-12-22 at 07:58 PM ----------

    Okay, funny story.. i came up with the following results: (they WILL be different to any rogue out there, but the final meaning may be very similar)

    Slice n' Dice increases the DPS of my White Hits + Woundpoison by 28,5~%, which is 530dps in my case. (i have 16.22 Mastery, which means that my SND is giving 52% of Meleespeed in total) given that SND is up for 20 seconds, it makes up for almost 10,600 Damage.

    My Eviscerate ability is hitting for 8,5k and critting for 17k~ . My crittical Strike rate is 25% as Sub, and as such, we could say that the average damage of Evi is 12,75k...

    So, even if you were able to stick to your opponent the whole time while SnD is up, it should deal less damage than Eviscerate. Of course this could change with upcoming gear, but SnD is actually nothing more then a tool to keep Deadly Poison up in PvE.

    (As sub, you should use crippling to keep your enemy near to you, so deadly poison isnt a good choice, me thinks,)

  15. #15
    nice to see some numbers but you are taking an avarage dmge based on crit, doesnt that mean you should apply this aswell for white crits?
    also, SnD counts more towards weapon dps as evis counts more to AP?
    no idea tho, im not good with numbers like that

    also, just did some dps on a dummy, im getting more dps with SnD then with evis
    Last edited by Heky; 2010-12-22 at 07:06 PM.

  16. #16
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    let me tell you a little secret ~ recount isnt calculating right. it rates constant DPS increase (like snd) higher than those little outbursts, like eviscerate. funny thin -> use SnD twice, and then let it out for several minutes completely by just spamming Evi -> recount will still tell you that you are dealing hundreds of DPS more, even if youre not doing Slice anymore. so yeah, the things a bit broken.

    if you want to be 100% sure which way is the best, take a stopwatch, start fighting at 0:00 and quit it at.. well, the higher the better, but 5 minutes should be enough. once with Slice+Evi, and once with Evi only. And then compare the total damage made number.

    as i said, it will be an different outcome for many rogues due to different Eq and Playstyle - but even if Slice is increasing your overall DPS (what could be more than possible! the loss to me appears to be very small.. 10,6 vs. 12,x), you simply cant be at your enemy all the time, even if the enemy is just blinking away or slowing you to catch some breath, much time will be wasted.

    in addition: do you have trinkets that are proccing per hit? this is influencing your numbers and SnD's worth. Did you have bad luck on EVI crits? this may influence your numbers aswell. are you using other poisons than WP/CP ? this may affect your data also.

    (Sorry for my bad english^^)

    edit:

    Damn, i am sorry to tell that ive forgot one of the most important things - the 'DPS of Eviscerate'. the 'DPS' of Evi are hard to tell, but the easiest way is to take the time that is needed to build up 5 CP, and Subtrahend (is it called like this in english?) it with the damage dealt of the average Eviscerate. If you approach your enemy with a full energy bar, you should be able to do it in less than ten seconds, even if you build them up with Backstab. if you stick for a longer time, it becomes harder, because once the bar is empty, make a new round is much more time consuming. and in addition, can you be behind your target, or do you have to use (which is actuallythe easier way to build up 5cp ) Hemo?

    In the end, i stick to what ive said at the very beginning, it depends on the situation, but i stick to evi, since i am a.) used to it, b.) since i play with a healer as a mate, there isnt that much CC available to keep him away from harm, i have to run and switch targets a lot, and c.) i like the quick additional burst while dancing - its just more of a threat to deal more damage in a smaller time window... at least most of the time.
    Last edited by Crystalchild; 2010-12-22 at 07:50 PM.

  17. #17
    good to know i dont have to rely to much on recount.
    but yeh, im using myself evis most of the time, unless im gonna take a healer down or so.

    thanks alot for the info!

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