"Vote to Kick" A questionable dynamic during 5 man heroic raiding

[Sinterz]

Allow me to explain this dynamic in question:

During a 5 man heroic run I was met with an interesting situation. I and another guild member qued for a random heroic (both DPS) we were paired with two other people who were members of another guild (tank and dps) and a random healer not affiliated with either of our guilds. During the last boss the healer wiped us several times due to a lack of understanding of boss mechanics and was kind enough to leave and allow us to find another healer. The last time we wiped (the 5th time) I asked if I could get a rezz because I needed to bio. The tank and the dps from the other guild started giving me a hard time about not running back and they eventually started the name calling. I took offense to this and said that it was "bull sh**" At this point another healer came in and I ran back. As I got there to start the fight my guildy on vents says that the tank is trying to kick me because I was being rude. This is where the dynamic comes into play. The vote doesn't pass because the healer doesn't have a clue to the prior situation and doesn't want to kick me for a reason they are not aware of. After the vote doesn’t pass the tank announces that he will not tank until I am removed from the party. The tank has just taken us all hostage and will not do his job. I immediately put in a VTK against the tank for "not doing his job" and it doesn't pass because the healer won’t vote to kick him because they don’t want to wait on a new tank and he has his other guild member backing him up. Eventually the healer whispers me and says "I'm sorry :{" and bang, I’m ejected from the group. This, to me, is a perfect example of how the VTK mechanic is used incorrectly and even maliciously to hurt someone or for personal gain. Has anyone had a similar experience to this or have a story of how VTK has been used against you in a way that it was not intended?

[Janaa]

To survive the first vote kick puts you in a select group of lucky people. While the situation you've described is unfortunate, you're right - the tank was holding the group hostage, so there's not much else the healer could do. It was a stalemate, and so he had to decide to replace a DPS or replace a tank and in that situation, he made the right call. The very definition of a dilemma - two choices, neither of which are good, but you have to make one or the other. He wasn't taking sides, just looking at it objectively.

It sucks to be on the receiving end of an unfair kick, but it's part of the random pugging game, unfortunately.

[Xeikai]

I dont know why people are afraid to kick tanks. your going to get the next solo tank who ques, which is probably 5 mins At the most. I run with 3 dps buddies, and if we think a tank is a little too big for his britches, we either kick him, or just make fun of him till he decides to leave on his own. If a boss hasn't been down yet. It's always nice to give an asshat another 30 mins to wait.

It's quite alright if a healer leaves too, you just reque, you go right to the front of the que, and bam, replacements in the next 1 min to 5 mins.

[kjohnson06150]

As a DPS, you're effectively lower class, lower priority, in short, no one cares about you. Your spot is instantly filled with someone of equal value.

Tanks and healers are middle class. The lower class will get booted if the middle class don't like you.

Really good tanks are upper class. If they don't like two people at the start, the other two will get rid of them. If they don't like the healer, everyone agrees when they suggest a boot.

In short, roll a tank. It's not fair, neither is life.

[Atrea]

I know there will be a plethora of "get a guild" posts, and while I understand that it is not always an option for some, and for others, they play at times when their guild is relatively inactive, it is still worth noting that there is that option on the table.

Your situation is unfortunate, and I sympathize, but it is the price one must pay if you want to operate within the LFG system.

[Deleted]

Tanks being tanks have a certain amount of control over the group, where the group goes, how they do a boss, or who is in the group. A tank can sit and throw his toys out of the pram til eventually DPS/Healers will just co-operate. Obviously if a dps acts like a moron it's easy to kick them, dps are disposable. On my battlegroup you might be waiting for a tank for upwards of 15 minutes so it's best to just shut up and get on with it unfortunately.

[Fenzha]

I was playing on my fury warrior and got put in a dungeon group with 4 randoms.
Each of the first few trash pulls the tank couldnt hold agro off any of the dps and i ended up dieing a couple times. I said "wtb tank" as a joke and within seconds i was out of the group.
I had a half an hour wait queue but i think it would have taken them alot longer then that to progress through the dungeon if they could even manage at all.

[Coldtooth]

Had a similar situation, four guildies and me. First pull, the paladin tank AoE pulls and after a couple seconds I spread pestilence and begin to DPS skull. However, the tank hasn't generated shit for threat after his initial avengers shield and possible consecration. Anyways, one mob attacks me (from two diseases......really) and another randomly casts corrupted flames Start taking dmg so I switch and cast mind freeze......die anyways.

Then the tank and healer both blame me like I was actively attacking triangle or something and don't rez me. I almost left there but after a 35 minute que I didn't want to. We down the first boss and right before throngus I accidentally spread pestilence to 1 MOB beccause of glyphed pest (which I should remove) and we kill it easily. I apologize and say I didnt change my old glyph and they go...."dont worry we'll kick your old ass).

So in summary, the 2nd highest dps on umbriss next to me is the tank, I get blamed for a lack of necessary group heals and poor tank threat gen (random target cast and holding no threat on an aoe pull......2 nerfed diseases after 5 seconds of fighting). Somewhat frustrating but it is the cost as some say. The kicker.....I got annoyed enough to jump on their realm an tell the healer all the ways their guild group was terrible and right when I whispered they wiped on the next boss......such scrubs.

[Sinterz]

After reading what happend to you, I thik I feel a little better! Thanks for your post Coldtooth!

[Arlee]

I dont know why people are afraid to kick tanks. your going to get the next solo tank who ques, which is probably 5 mins At the most. I run with 3 dps buddies, and if we think a tank is a little too big for his britches, we either kick him, or just make fun of him till he decides to leave on his own. If a boss hasn't been down yet. It's always nice to give an asshat another 30 mins to wait.

It's quite alright if a healer leaves too, you just reque, you go right to the front of the que, and bam, replacements in the next 1 min to 5 mins.

This... I have never had to wait more than a couple of minutes to get replacement tanks or healers. Really shouldn't let people get away with this immature behavior.

[Deleted]

so you slacked and got kicked... whats so bad about it?

[Holytoast]

This is why I keep quiet and to myself while in a pug.. people are strange.

[Sting]

As a tank, I find it very frustrating that I can only vote kick people once. There are so many terrible players around that somehow still do 5k and don't move from ANYTHING.
Questionable dynamic sure, but it goes both ways.

[Airlick]

You should have made a ticket, tickets like that, if they contain the right words, are responded to very fast, sometimes it's a matter of a few minutes. A player who does something like that may even get banned, though it's not very likely. And anyway, tanks are easily found if your group loses one while dungeon is in progress.

[Elanale]

I'm sorry, but people have been bitching about tanks and DPS and healers and their relative worth and how this all impacts the LFG experience ever since LFG came, and I've never seen a tenth of what I should in actual gameplay to judge by the volume of complaints and discussion. And I've done all three roles, in LFG at least.

[Deleted]

so you slacked and got kicked... whats so bad about it?

some people actually do go to the bathroom..

[Deleted]

some people actually do go to the bathroom..

HF on raid then... every 5 minutes some going brb toilet. You should do this stuff during break or before or after dungeon since they are pretty short.

[Taelynn]

Its a tool. And like any tool there will be some A** to come alone and abuse the hell out of it. Namely, sorry good tanks, any bad tank not confidant enough to actually hold agro and a group together. So much easier to Kick then explain, ask questions, or remember this is new content to a lot of folks and not everyone gets it there first time or even second time running it.

[Rennadrel]

I am rude to people all the time in heroics and rarely get booted. If they want to be bad and not take constructive criticism when they screw up, they can remove me from the group, I don't care. I play this game to get through things, not sit around and twiddle my thumbs while people die to stupid stuff and are incapable of playing their characters the way Blizzard wants them to, like tanks who think they can pull a large mob with a few cleaves in there and let melee DPS get killed in the process, along with everyone else because the tank only had 124k health and got destroyed due to no CC and taking too much damage.

[Jaerin]

Okay two things...

#1 A ton of the people complaining about vote-kicking on here make a fatal mistake in every case. They respond with common douchery with douchery. That means they are as big if not bigger douche than the first person. Just shut up ignore the asshats and do the dungeon. If you want to start drama then don't be surprised when drama errupts.

#2 Whether you like it or not tanks and somewhat healers have more power in 5-mans PERIOD. Why? Because they hold the power to make you wait 45mins for another dungeon. Don't like it? Then play a healer or a tank, that is the ONLY way its going to change. The ratio of tanks/healers/dps isn't going to change unless a lot of dps start playing healer/tank. Until that happens you are SOL.

So in this mistake you broke both rules. You started acting like a douche when they called you out on being lazy, which you even admitted by not running back. You tried to go head-to-head with not only the tank, but the healer. You had no way to win other than to do what you should have done, and that's shut up and dps.

That's my QQ post about vote kicking.