Holy Paladin t11 BiS Trinkets

[vizzle]

Hi, I haven't really found much good info on which trinkets are stronger than which, not even on EJ.

Viable t11 Trinkets are:

Core of Ripeness - http://www.wowhead.com/item=58184/core-of-ripeness
Tyrande's Favorite Doll - http://www.wowhead.com/item=64645
Fall of Mortality (normal) - http://www.wowhead.com/item=59500
Fall of Mortality (heroic) - http://www.wowhead.com/item=65124
Blood of Isiset (heroic) - http://www.wowhead.com/item=56414
Shard of Woe - http://www.wowhead.com/item=60233#comments
Darkmoon Card: Tsunami - http://www.wowhead.com/item=62050/darkmoon-card-tsunami
Jar of Ancient Remedies (normal) - http://www.wowhead.com/item=59354
Jar of Ancient Remedies (heroic) - http://www.wowhead.com/item=65029

Just from a quick skim over all of the trinkets, and just assuming the procs have same % uptime, my guess would be:

Shard of Woe > Jar of Ancient Remedies (heroic) > Jar of Ancient Remedies (normal) > Tyrande's Favorite Doll > Fall of Mortality (heroic) > Fall of Mortality (normal) > Darkmoon Card: Tsunami > Core of Ripeness > Blood of Isiset

It gets really hard to determine the values of the trinkets in the latter half, as they are all really close. If anyone has a link to any math that's been done on this, that would be great.

[Deleted]

Personally Int is our best stat. So any trinket that doesnt have it i would chuck, mana isnt that much of an issue either. I'd make an exception for shard of woe just because the haste proc for every other holy radiance means you do have a cooldown to coincide with every holy radiance.


Shard of woe -> Fall of Mortality (herioc) -> any int trink of normal 359 ilevel -> spirit/mastery trinkets

[briggz]

I was curious adout this too. Comming from A person who wont see heroic raids for at least a month or 2... why wouldnt you conside heroic:tear of blood(cant link stuff yet). Ive been trying to farm that with no luck

[vizzle]

Personally Int is our best stat. So any trinket that doesnt have it i would chuck, mana isnt that much of an issue either. I'd make an exception for shard of woe just because the haste proc for every other holy radiance means you do have a cooldown to coincide with every holy radiance.


Shard of woe -> Fall of Mortality (herioc) -> any int trink of normal 359 ilevel -> spirit/mastery trinkets

While Int is our best stat, Jar of Ancient Remedies shows much higher mp5 than any other trinket, especially if you use the usage off CD. Generalizing "any int trinket of normal 359 ilvl" doesn't really help also.

I was curious adout this too. Comming from A person who wont see heroic raids for at least a month or 2... why wouldnt you conside heroic:tear of blood(cant link stuff yet). Ive been trying to farm that with no luck

That would be alright, however I personally would choose Rainsong (if I had to choose between that or Tear of Blood), since Tear of Blood -only- procs from critical heals, which we don't get much of anymore.

[Deleted]

While Int is our best stat, Jar of Ancient Remedies shows much higher mp5 than any other trinket, especially if you use the usage off CD. Generalizing "any int trinket of normal 359 ilvl" doesn't really help also.

I dont take trinkets for there regen, i take them for Throughput. now im over 7k spellpower, holy light is healing the same amounts as in wrath (not in icc)

[Xs]

Personally I'm aiming for TFD + DM:T
I'm a little puzzled by the current spirit conversion rates so I've been unable to do a proper comparison, but I feel those are the most static

If I had any hope of the absolute best, I'd take Shard of Woe + Fall of Mortality hc, again because I profer passive bonuses
If I had some decent spirit conversion numbers for Pallies I could probably do some better maths and figure out if the other ones are competetive

[vizzle]

I dont take trinkets for there regen, i take them for Throughput. now im over 7k spellpower, holy light is healing the same amounts as in wrath (not in icc)

Not that your approach isn't viable, but you could take a different approach and go for better regen trinkets, giving you room for more DLs and other mana eating spells.

[Deleted]

As a raid healer, as long as i can use holy radiance every cooldown and spaming holylight causes ZERO mana loss. Then i have an 100k mana pool for using big heals when there needed.

But yeh im not tank healing so dont realy need to DL spam much, cho'gall p2 is about the hardest raid healing spam ive done so far, and well HL was fine while chaining cooldowns through it.

[vizzle]

IIRC, the BiS trinkets for HL Holy Pallies in Wrath were Meteorite Crystal and heroic/normal Solace, not because of their throughput, but because they had the best mp5. These trinkets beat out other trinkets that had higher INT, just because they gave better mp5. I don't see why this philosophy should change in Cata, especially with mana being a much bigger issue now than it used to be, unless you're doing a very mana-conservative approach in which you shouldn't be, you should be maxing your mana out as much as you can.

It's the same as how the ilvl 200 Libram was the BiS HL Libram all the way through wrath, even though many many other Librams had much more direct throughput. What you have to take into account though, the mana saved from the more mana-conserving Librams and trinkets give you the ability to push out more throughput indirectly.

[Brashara]

In wrath we were spamming our most expensive heal (which had enough throughput on its own). This made mana regen the issue because throughput was taken care of passively. If we ever get in range of being able to spam Flash of Light for the entire fight, then we'll stack regen until we can. Until then we need to balance Throughput/Regen, and since my regen within the cataclysm healing model is fine (finishing heroic fights with 90%+ mana and raids with 60-70% mana) we need more throughput. (Also I need to start using my more expensive heals more).

[vizzle]

In wrath we were spamming our most expensive heal (which had enough throughput on its own). This made mana regen the issue because throughput was taken care of passively. If we ever get in range of being able to spam Flash of Light for the entire fight, then we'll stack regen until we can. Until then we need to balance Throughput/Regen, and since my regen within the cataclysm healing model is fine (finishing heroic fights with 90%+ mana and raids with 60-70% mana) we need more throughput. (Also I need to start using my more expensive heals more).

I honestly don't know how you finish a raid fight with 60-70% mana. It just shows you could've done much more than you actually did, you aren't pushing yourself enough.

Rule of thumb; if you are oom just as the fight ends, or at least less than 10%, and everyone is still alive, then you did a good job.

[vizzle]

Do you have any numbers for that? Because TFD has more mp5 than DM:T.

[Xs]

SoW > FoM > JoAR > DM:T > TFD > CoR is the correct "bis" order, actually.

Sorry but, I can't take a guy wearing Cloth and Mail, seemingly stacking mastery, with some other pretty poor choices seriously

Show some evidence please.

[Cloudy_Matt]

As far as all the info I've read, the trinket priority is as follows:
(Going to disregard heroic trinkets since so few guilds have access to them)

Tyrande's Fav Doll > Jar > DMC : T > Fall of Mortality ~= Core of Ripeness

The priority is more based upon regen values, rather than throughput, although Tyrande's Doll is equal in throughput to any 321+ intellect trinket.

[s8mpurye]

The spirit -> Mp5 conversion is this. mp5=(0.001+spirit*(int^1/2)*0.0033445)*5

From a pure regen PoV the Heroic BiS trinkets are SoW>JoAR>FoM. Even w/o using DP at all, Fall of mortallity comes in at 480mp5. While JoAR comes in at 531.02 mp5. For all calculations I assumed 6k int, since thats about the amount of int we will end this patch with. Shard of Woe's value scales with the number of mana costing spells cast per 5 seconds, in other words, the more haste you have the more effective shard of woe becomes. I went for a very low end value on SoW and assumed only 2 mana costing spells cast /5seconds, this is almost never the case but it still puts it at an easy to understand 810 mana saved/5.

I will gladly link all the math for all the trinkets, sadly I had not put replen into the equations until now. I have to regraph them all, not that its hard or anything but it is the holidays and I wont be doing any serious thinking until at least tomorrow.

[Cloudy_Matt]

The spirit -> Mp5 conversion is this. mp5=(0.001+spirit*(int^1/2)*0.0033445)*5

From a pure regen PoV the Heroic BiS trinkets are SoW>FoM>JoAR. Even w/o using DP at all, Fall of mortallity comes in at an insane 751.75mp5. While JoAR comes in at 531.02 mp5. For all calculations I assumed 6k int, since thats about the amount of int we will end this patch with. Shard of Woe's value scales with the number of mana costing spells cast per 5 seconds, in other words, the more haste you have the more effective shard of woe becomes. I went for a very low end value on SoW and assumed only 2 mana costing spells cast /5seconds, this is almost never the case but it still puts it at an easy to understand 810 mana saved/5.

I will gladly link all the math for all the trinkets, sadly I had not put replen into the equations until now. I have to regraph them all, not that its hard or anything but it is the holidays and I wont be doing any serious thinking until at least tomorrow.

Are you sure Fall of Mortality gives that much regen? I remember reading somewhere else that Tyrande's was superior to it.

EDIT: Might want to check out this site http://bis.vilepickle.com/ It gives a very nice BiS list based on weighting each stat as a different amount of points.

[s8mpurye]

Assuming 45s icd. If this is the incorrect icd please let me know. The math for it assuming it procs directly when the icd ends is, 415.86=(0.001+(1926*15/45)(6000^1/2)*0.0033445)*5 then add the replen for it, ((((363*(1.05^2)*15)/100)*6)/60)*5

You were correct my math was wrong. Its closer to 480mp5..

---------- Post added 2010-12-25 at 07:16 PM ----------

And yes I'm sure the FoM(Heroic) is in fact so superior to tyrandes. The only thing I could see being wrong with the amount that trinkets regen provides is if it was in fact not a 45 sec icd.

If anyone notices a flaw in the math I posted about the FoM please let me know.

---------- Post added 2010-12-25 at 07:23 PM ----------

Are you sure Fall of Mortality gives that much regen? I remember reading somewhere else that Tyrande's was superior to it.

EDIT: Might want to check out this site http://bis.vilepickle.com/ It gives a very nice BiS list based on weighting each stat as a different amount of points.

For the most part I agree with that website, I however wouldn't take the mandala over solace. I also would take meteorite crystal over heroic solace assuming LoD still gives it 7 stacks. Basically meteorite+mana tide = insane spirit.

[Theholypally]

I believe the BIS trinkets for holy paladins are going to be the Jar of Ancient Rememdy and Fall of Mortality, or Fall of Mortality + Core of Ripeness. Two combos of great trinkets, both with awesome regen and one at least that has a high amount of int.

I prefer having two regen trinkets (at least one with int) So for example id be using Tear of Blood (Heroic) + Fall of mortality, or currently Tear of Blood (Heroic) + Core of Ripeness (once i get the VP to get it)

Unless i finally find Tyrandes favorite doll, then ill factor that in there, for now its just what i think will be BIS not including heroics or the doll.

[Brashara]

I honestly don't know how you finish a raid fight with 60-70% mana. It just shows you could've done much more than you actually did, you aren't pushing yourself enough.

Rule of thumb; if you are oom just as the fight ends, or at least less than 10%, and everyone is still alive, then you did a good job.

I disagree. I've got the world 10 parse on Chimaeron, so I dunno if throughput is my issue either.

On topic, the best two are Fall of Mortality and Core of Ripeness. Tsunami instead of ripeness if farm it, maybe.

[Deleted]

I honestly don't know how you finish a raid fight with 60-70% mana. It just shows you could've done much more than you actually did, you aren't pushing yourself enough.

Rule of thumb; if you are oom just as the fight ends, or at least less than 10%, and everyone is still alive, then you did a good job.

Well, we had lack of healers this week, so I had to go into my off spec to heal on al'akir. I was almost on top of the meters ( about 1k hps behind the other holy paladin ), at about 13k hps. My gear is really sub par, havent reforged anything, using green gems etc, almost full 346 except my trinkets that are utter crap. Got the neck and waist from rep.

I ended the fight on about 80% mana, though entered P3 with 30% mana.

Mana regen is really not an issue for holy paladins, I can tell you that. We also had a two off spec dpsers doing slightly more damage then the tank, so we had a really slow P2 that "drained" our mana.


As a holy paladin, I would definately max out int, especially on trinkets. If you for some reason needs regen, reforge mastery to spirit.