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  1. #1
    Stood in the Fire Neltharia's Avatar
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    Hi I'm a shadow priest and I'm a manaholic.

    Hey,

    I've decided to do some dps in my daily heroic instead of the usual healing, and even with shadowfiend and dispersion, I still manage to go oom on every boss. I also have to sit down to drink after 3 mob groups. This is a pain when I don't have a mage...

    My rotation basically consists of mind spike x3, vampiric touch, mind blast, shadow word pain, and the other dot. Then I switch targets and mind flay to get shadow orbs and to refresh shadow word pain.

    How do you guys handle the mana? I know the dots cost a ton of mana, but I can't just go around mind spiking and mind blasting all the time.
    What's your rotation?

    ---------- Post added 2010-12-25 at 01:03 PM ----------

    bump

    nobody?

    ---------- Post added 2010-12-25 at 01:08 PM ----------

    Oh and also, I can only pull about 6.5k dps max with this rotation. I'm getting sick of always being the lowest on the chart even though I use all my mana...

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Neltharia View Post
    Hey,

    I've decided to do some dps in my daily heroic instead of the usual healing, and even with shadowfiend and dispersion, I still manage to go oom on every boss. I also have to sit down to drink after 3 mob groups. This is a pain when I don't have a mage...

    My rotation basically consists of mind spike x3, vampiric touch, mind blast, shadow word pain, and the other dot. Then I switch targets and mind flay to get shadow orbs and to refresh shadow word pain.

    How do you guys handle the mana? I know the dots cost a ton of mana, but I can't just go around mind spiking and mind blasting all the time.
    What's your rotation?

    ---------- Post added 2010-12-25 at 01:03 PM ----------

    bump

    nobody?

    ---------- Post added 2010-12-25 at 01:08 PM ----------

    Oh and also, I can only pull about 6.5k dps max with this rotation. I'm getting sick of always being the lowest on the chart even though I use all my mana...
    Boss priority rotation:

    VT
    DP
    SW:P
    MB(+1 orbs)
    MF spam

    EDIT: Remember to keep Empowered Shadows (our mastery buff) up and refresh it before refreshing DP or VT. This because VT and DP damage do not automaticly update between ticks, unlike SW:P which updates the damage when it is refreshed by Mind Flay.

    Mind Spike is only useful on low health adds, otherwise do not use it. I usually pop Shadowfiend right at the beginning because its cooldown is reduced by Mind Flay crits. I also use Archangel the first time I drop below ~70% mana. Dispersion when I take damage and have ~70% or less mana. Hymn of Hope I usually save if the healer is low on mana and only tend to use it if I'm close to oom and have no other mana recovery means. Past boss health at 25% I run out of mana problems because of SW. If you still have problems with mana I suggest using SW on cooldown to regain mana through masochism.

    It's also good to know how you should gear. You didn't mention anything about your stats, but I'd suggest downloading simcraft and using it. If you dislike minmaxing then intellect > spell power > haste > crit/mastery/hit/spirit.
    Last edited by Haldurion; 2010-12-25 at 01:22 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miralynn View Post
    'Hardcore' raiders remind me of my two-year-old. "Yes, I put it down and I'm not playing with it anymore, but YOU CAN'T TOUCH IT MINE MINE MINE MINE!"

  3. #3
    Stood in the Fire Neltharia's Avatar
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    Thanks Haldurion. I've been using mind spike when I had 3 orbs due to 26k crits. I guess they looked good, but having to put all dots back on were a huge waste of mana.

  4. #4
    remember to pop your wings and fly on the insane mana D:

  5. #5
    If you have problem with your mana, the best thing you can do is to spam SW every time it's up, and tell your disc priest to forget the shield on you, or you won't regen.

  6. #6
    To the opp...

    My current experience goes as this..

    every caty 5 man regular cleared.
    every caty 5 man heroic cleared.
    Downed 25 man magmaw.
    downed 25 man omni
    downed 25 man malorak
    and downed 25 man sound boss dragon guy i am not sure what his name is..

    So yes i have some decent gear and quite a bit of raid experience so far this expansion



    trust me when i say this.. it really never gets better... our mana efficency sucks no matter how many cooldowns we blow and no matter how many globals we waste on 2k damage shadow word deaths..

    I belive one poster said it best "im tired of seeing my mana bar go up and down like a roller coaster"

    and that is the simple truth.. just casting an opener will take you to 60% mana..

    the state of shadow pve is ABYSMAL when compared to every other class in the game.. poor damage single and multi target.. poor mana efficency and now thanks to the ve nerfs next to zero survivability.. .we have ZERO utility and we are effectively a burden on any raid..

    sure a shadow priest can enter a raid with a guild full of scrubs and do decent on the meters (about midway). but does that mean that shadow is fine? nope.. it means that your playing with scrubs if you think that.. because once you play with people who actually take progression seriously you will discover how terrible shadow really is..

    i will soon be benching my priest in favor of my warrior for raiding... its simply not worth the hassle to play a priest atm.

  7. #7
    Stood in the Fire Neltharia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kootz View Post
    trust me when i say this.. it really never gets better... our mana efficency sucks no matter how many cooldowns we blow and no matter how many globals we waste on 2k damage shadow word deaths..

    I belive one poster said it best "im tired of seeing my mana bar go up and down like a roller coaster"

    and that is the simple truth.. just casting an opener will take you to 60% mana..

    the state of shadow pve is ABYSMAL when compared to every other class in the game.. poor damage single and multi target.. poor mana efficency and now thanks to the ve nerfs next to zero survivability.. .we have ZERO utility and we are effectively a burden on any raid..

    sure a shadow priest can enter a raid with a guild full of scrubs and do decent on the meters (about midway). but does that mean that shadow is fine? nope.. it means that your playing with scrubs if you think that.. because once you play with people who actually take progression seriously you will discover how terrible shadow really is..

    i will soon be benching my priest in favor of my warrior for raiding... its simply not worth the hassle to play a priest atm.

    Yea those are my thoughts as well. I've decided that I will just go purely PvP, with a daily heroic in between. I play with a frost mage buddy of mine. He has the same quality gear as I do and deals 4k more dps than me and never, ever goes oom. I'll probably level my rogue or my paladin instead.

    Thanks

  8. #8
    Gods, Kootz sounds like a Ret Paladin.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    Gods, Kootz sounds like a Ret Paladin.
    It always amazes me that you are a moderator because whenever you pop up its to post some uninformed bullcrap that just sounds so self entitled.

    You must be one of those forum god shadow priests that amazingly says that they have zero mana issues and pulls 20k dps on all single target bossfights.. your right im a terrible player and so faceroll that only a ret pally would suit me because im unhappy with how shadow priests are in the earlier portions of what seems to be every expac. your right i dispise the fact that i have to "invest" in fun as a shadow priest.


    Yes kelesti your a god at wow because you love to post on forums.

    Congratulations and I hope that one day i can be as good as you (while still holding down an actual life and job)
    Last edited by Kootz; 2010-12-25 at 08:54 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Kootz View Post
    It always amazes me that you are a moderator because whenever you pop up its to post some uninformed bullcrap that just sounds so self entitled.
    'kay.

    You must be one of those forum god shadow priests that amazingly says that they have zero mana issues and pulls 20k dps on all single target bossfights..
    Actually, considering I'm a Holy Priest, first and foremost, I find this hilarious. But of course, there are patterns and solutions that are available more than the self-righteous "we've been wronged, worthless can't do anything" bullshit that pops up on the Ret forums. That Nocturna tried to pull here for healing, and you are pulling here for Shadow.

    Area Effect Damage sucks. Hey guess what, unless you play a Fire Mage, Survival Hunter, or Frost Death Knight, it sucks for everyone. The funny thing about that is for a 20% harder hitting Earthquake, Shaman have to spend longer channeling it (can stop casting early, but it has a cooldown) and spend more than twice the mana.

    Blizz screwed up on AoE, sure.

    Single target, our Shadowpriest pulled 16k last week on Argaloth, that's counting movement. He also wasn't OoM.

    your right im a terrible player and so faceroll that only a ret pally would suit me because im unhappy with how shadow priests are
    I never said Ret was faceroll, I said your bitching is a mirror image to that entire community's attitude. You'd fit in well over there.

    Whether you feel you have to "invest" or not, okay. Guess what? Not our problem. A mage still has to waste globals on gems and evocate. A Shaman's regen is RNG dependent, and they run hard OoM when they have to AoE. Warlocks have to spend Global cooldowns doing zero damage for lifetap. QQ'ing that Death hits for so little is pretty laughable. But okay.

    You don't find Shadow fun? Same thing applies to those burnt out on "new healing". Okay, don't let the door hit you on the way out. But we are not your personal army, we don't give a crap about how much this pisses you off.

    Congratulations and I hope that one day i can be as good as you (while still holding down an actual life and job)
    Ah, flamebait, how much fun. Drop the personal crap, be it at me or someone else, or get out.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
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    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  11. #11
    Stood in the Fire Neltharia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kootz View Post
    It always amazes me that you are a moderator because whenever you pop up its to post some uninformed bullcrap that just sounds so self entitled.

    You must be one of those forum god shadow priests that amazingly says that they have zero mana issues and pulls 20k dps on all single target bossfights.. your right im a terrible player and so faceroll that only a ret pally would suit me because im unhappy with how shadow priests are in the earlier portions of what seems to be every expac. your right i dispise the fact that i have to "invest" in fun as a shadow priest.


    Yes kelesti your a god at wow because you love to post on forums.

    Congratulations and I hope that one day i can be as good as you (while still holding down an actual life and job)

    /agree

    I want constructive replies...

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Neltharia View Post
    /agree

    I want constructive replies...
    You consider "Waaaah our class is broken forever and the developers hate us" constructive?

    You can take a look at World of Logs and see that Shadow is fine in single target DPS at the moment, our AoE is weak but we have no problems maintaining very acceptable DPS in a raid setting.

    In fact, here's a screeny of a log from one of the other threads here with a Shadow Priest doing 20k DPS

    http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/426/20kdpsmagmaw.jpg

    And a link to the log itself:
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/abau1u0t93c6xmw6/

    All thanks to Jonish for posting these from his raid.

    Kootz, if you are doing terrible DPS and constantly running out of mana, and other Priests are doing fine DPS and not having mana issues it's not a problem with the class. The problem is between your keyboard and chair.
    Last edited by Abandon; 2010-12-25 at 09:35 PM.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  13. #13
    Stood in the Fire Neltharia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abandon View Post
    You consider "Waaaah our class is broken forever and the developers hate us" constructive?

    You can take a look at World of Logs and see that Shadow is fine in single target DPS at the moment, our AoE is weak but we have no problems maintaining very acceptable DPS in a raid setting.
    I consider a comment constructive if it states a point that has to do with the topic of the thread and backs it up with information. He also has experience. However, a clearly pointless flame post is not constructive.

  14. #14
    Epic! Spectrez's Avatar
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    You : "Hi I'm a shadow priest, my name is Bob, and I'm a manaholic"
    Group : "Hi Bob"

    First thing I thought of when I read the title. lol.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Abandon View Post
    You consider "Waaaah our class is broken forever and the developers hate us" constructive?
    Apparently. I mean, it's worked for Paladins for how many years?

    You can take a look at World of Logs and see that Shadow is fine in single target DPS at the moment, our AoE is weak but we have no problems maintaining very acceptable DPS in a raid setting.
    And Shadow may be bottom rung here, but when you take out Starfall, Balance is terrible AoE, Elemental is bad AoE, Arcane is pitiful, so is frost. Warlock's only good when you're Demonology and can pump out Felstorm and Immolation Aura while using Hellfire. Seed and Rain of Fire don't do enough.

    The game's AoE balance is too heavily weighted in favor of fire, Survival, and Frost Death Knights. Trim those down first. That's Shadow's biggest problem.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    I never said Ret was faceroll, I said your bitching is a mirror image to that entire community's attitude. You'd fit in well over there.
    As a paladin, I have to agree with this. Ret has some issues as far as I'm concerned (our mastery and one of our strongest talents, as well as our seal, are all things that only happen when we auto-attack; RNG FTL), but the sheer level of complaints from my brethren is kinda sickening at times :-P

    Also, I have to admit, the absolute first thing that went through my mind when I read "the state of shadow pve is ABYSMAL when compared to every other class in the game" was "Damn, he sounds exactly like a ret paladin".

    If you think that's inaccurate, go read the paladin forums

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Neltharia View Post
    I consider a comment constructive if it states a point that has to do with the topic of the thread and backs it up with information. He also has experience. However, a clearly pointless flame post is not constructive.
    The thing is, he didn't back it up with information, and you have no idea if he has any experience. Lying on the internet is easy.

    "Shadow Priest DPS is fine, I solo'd:
    every caty 5 man regular
    every caty 5 man heroic
    25 man magmaw.
    25 man omni
    25 man malorak"

    And I have posted just as much proof as he had that I have done this.

    He's posted absolutely no evidence that anything he is saying is true, and no proof that he has any experience. You can check the WoL that I edited my post with and take a look at the Shadow Priest's DPS there if you wish.

    In fact, that World of Logs report I posted was posted, to Kootz, in another thread, after he was whining that our DPS is terrible and said "Screenshots or it didnt happen bro." to someone who can manage good DPS. And then they provided a screenshot and link to the logs showing he was completely wrong. I'm amazed he completely forgot about it so soon.
    Last edited by Abandon; 2010-12-25 at 09:50 PM.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Neltharia View Post
    and the other dot
    Yeah...

    ...

    ...Oh well it's christmas, let's leave it there

  19. #19
    Stood in the Fire Neltharia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abandon View Post
    The thing is, he didn't back it up with information, and you have no idea if he has any experience. Lying on the internet is easy.

    "Shadow Priest DPS is fine, I solo'd:
    every caty 5 man regular
    every caty 5 man heroic
    25 man magmaw.
    25 man omni
    25 man malorak"

    And I have posted just as much proof as he had that I have done this.

    He's posted absolutely no evidence that anything he is saying is true, and no proof that he has any experience. You can check the WoL that I edited my post with and take a look at the Shadow Priest's DPS there if you wish.
    There's a problem with your statement... Why would anybody lie about something like this. If there were a thread that said: "I can solo..." and he posted that he can solo every raid in WoW, then there's a reason to lie. If he hasn't done what he is stating, then what would be the point of him saying it. I mean a lot of people have done those raids and it's nothing special.

    Thing is, I trust that he is not completely lying. It's not outrageous like yours is. Now if you came up and said "I have done instances with 100 shadow priests and most of them don't go oom at all", then I would also believe you and listen to what you are trying to say. Hence I say it was constructive. And you have to agree, more constructive than Kelesti's post...

    ---------- Post added 2010-12-25 at 10:47 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Trathus View Post
    Yeah...

    ...

    ...Oh well it's christmas, let's leave it there
    I play on a German client. Forgive me for forgetting the name in English. Devouring Plague, happy?

  20. #20
    I don't get it. Are shadowpriests broken or is it a player issue?
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    people who smoke weed past primary school dont deserve jobs.

    weed is for little kids. you should stop smoking it and move on to real people things

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