Thread: [TV] Doctor Who

  1. #2061
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Yes the battle will still happen. The planet was in the future 'after' the events of the episode. Possibly the Silence were trying to keep the Doctor from going to Trenzalore at the time of the battle, not the time we just watched. I think there is something building that may not ever see the light of day if Moffat stops writing for the show...but the show is delving into some religious mythology (again) that may be important.

    A few things about 'The Question' in regards to the prophecy

    -It says on the fields of Trenzalore, not on a hilltop, not in a TARDIS grave, but on the fields. IE not the time period of this episode, but the battle that is to come.

    -The first question, hidden in plain sight, that must never be answered....Doctor who?: Personally, I'm starting to get a sneaking suspicion that the Doctor is God. Not Christian God, not any god, but the all and everything. What if the Doctor is the Universe incarnate? Seems like if that secret was ever revealed it would basically destroy all of reality. Also, for it to be the first question it would have to be something the first 'thing' asks. 'What am I?'

    While an idirect method to reaching that answer, imagine something creating all of time and space, existing before anything else would, and having the first moment of realization....what if all of space and time was created for this being to figure out what it was...who it was?

    Whether the specifics prove true, I think the question of 'what's his name' is actually a question of who is he really. What is he? I think that answer is the true nature of the name, thus why there was so much significance placed on what name he chose instead. You could really weave in discourse on predestination, identity, and the power of names into this mythos because those questions are all floating in the background.
    i think its more likely he will end up being "the other" instead of a god since i dont think theres anyway they could ever top him turning out to be a god, i think the only way that could work out is if the show were going to end.

    series x finale "hes a god!"

    next series: ummmm i guess hes like talking to these aliens or something... umm daleks?

    lol i could just imagine how hard it would be to follow that
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  2. #2062
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Yes the battle will still happen. The planet was in the future 'after' the events of the episode. Possibly the Silence were trying to keep the Doctor from going to Trenzalore at the time of the battle, not the time we just watched. I think there is something building that may not ever see the light of day if Moffat stops writing for the show...but the show is delving into some religious mythology (again) that may be important.

    A few things about 'The Question' in regards to the prophecy

    -It says on the fields of Trenzalore, not on a hilltop, not in a TARDIS grave, but on the fields. IE not the time period of this episode, but the battle that is to come.

    -The first question, hidden in plain sight, that must never be answered....Doctor who?: Personally, I'm starting to get a sneaking suspicion that the Doctor is God. Not Christian God, not any god, but the all and everything. What if the Doctor is the Universe incarnate? Seems like if that secret was ever revealed it would basically destroy all of reality. Also, for it to be the first question it would have to be something the first 'thing' asks. 'What am I?'

    While an idirect method to reaching that answer, imagine something creating all of time and space, existing before anything else would, and having the first moment of realization....what if all of space and time was created for this being to figure out what it was...who it was?

    Whether the specifics prove true, I think the question of 'what's his name' is actually a question of who is he really. What is he? I think that answer is the true nature of the name, thus why there was so much significance placed on what name he chose instead. You could really weave in discourse on predestination, identity, and the power of names into this mythos because those questions are all floating in the background.
    The Name of the Doctor was pretty much confirmed to end the Trenzalore arc that's been brewing since Silence in the Library.

  3. #2063
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrowstorm View Post
    The Name of the Doctor was pretty much confirmed to end the Trenzalore arc that's been brewing since Silence in the Library.
    yeah but now moffats added a whole bunch of stuff to it with a huge future battle and a tomb and the doctors actual body thingy timey stream whatchamacallit O-O
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  4. #2064
    The Unstoppable Force Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    i think its more likely he will end up being "the other" instead of a god since i dont think theres anyway they could ever top him turning out to be a god, i think the only way that could work out is if the show were going to end.

    series x finale "hes a god!"

    next series: ummmm i guess hes like talking to these aliens or something... umm daleks?

    lol i could just imagine how hard it would be to follow that
    1) Who says being 'the other' and the universe/god/creation is different?
    2) Who says the show won't end with that?
    3) Who says that information will ever be truly answered?
    4) I didn't say a god, I said God.(And what I really meant by that I elaborated, as I meant all of creation, time, space, and energy that has ever been. 'God' is just easier for people to understand.)

    The ideology is similar to the Great Intelligence in a way...which is too perfect if I think about it...but...think of it like this:

    Try to not get head swimmy, as these following principles are hard to grasp/believe in as they are really outside of our literal understanding. IE, lots of this is paradoxical...but still potentially true.

    - Before anything, before time, before space, before light and dark, there was nothing. We can call it the void. We can call it God. We can call it whatever. But paradox #1 is that before anything, there was Something.

    - In many religious mythologies, that Something created all of everything. While this is often literal, it brings you back to point #1. If the Something that is Nothing created all of everything, it had to be aware of what it was doing in some capacity.

    - This brings us to paradox #2, which is that the Nothing becomes self aware...which is what creates all of everything.

    Now. Imagine this scenario and imagine without religious bias how something so infinitely large, so complex, to realize that it is Nothing and Everthing at the same time. Think of it as the largest paradox...the first paradox. Becoming self aware leads to questions. Conceptually the first question something will ask in becoming aware is the non linguistic expression of 'What am I?"

    Now, Imagine that this Something that is Everything has a real name. It won't be a word, or anything remotely understandable, but it is an existence. It literally has a name and that name is all the power of the universe, parallel dimension, everything you can imagine and can't imagine is that name.

    What if as the question was being churned in this being's 'mind' is when creation was being formed everywhere...from the essence of what was formerly nothing? Seeing all of these worlds and creatures, scientific principles, everything being made from 'you' while you are trying to figure out what 'you' are. It would be enough to drive even the Nothing that is Something crazy.

    So naturally, a common thing in mythology by the way, the only way to discover what you really are is to 'live a life'. In the scope of something so infinitely mysterious and great, the only life that will do is a Time Lord...possibly the first of the creations...we don't know. So in order for the Nothing to figure out that he is Something, he must become something (lower case)...

    At which point we have the beginnings of Time Lords and THE Time Lord. Now being somewhat concretely self aware, but losing the previous knowledge of Everything in the process, it chooses a name. The Doctor. That name might have had no meaning at the time it was spoken, but it did immediately afterwards. Everything this Something wanted to be, became The Doctor. Now this name has power, but the 'true' name was locked away in the process.

    What if at the end of all things the Universe finally had it's moment of self realization anew. Thus bringing us to the final paradox. In discovering it really is everything and nothing, it implodes into the void back to where it came...all the lights in the sky and all the skies in the void blinking out one by one until there is only Something that is Nothing.

    Annnnd repeat forever and ever and ever and ever.

    Dear me I did not expect to write that much rampant theory...PS, I'll be writing Doctor Who after Moffat leaves. Cringe now and flee mortals!
    BAD WOLF

  5. #2065
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Yes the battle will still happen. The planet was in the future 'after' the events of the episode. Possibly the Silence were trying to keep the Doctor from going to Trenzalore at the time of the battle, not the time we just watched. I think there is something building that may not ever see the light of day if Moffat stops writing for the show...but the show is delving into some religious mythology (again) that may be important.

    A few things about 'The Question' in regards to the prophecy

    -It says on the fields of Trenzalore, not on a hilltop, not in a TARDIS grave, but on the fields. IE not the time period of this episode, but the battle that is to come.

    -The first question, hidden in plain sight, that must never be answered....Doctor who?: Personally, I'm starting to get a sneaking suspicion that the Doctor is God. Not Christian God, not any god, but the all and everything. What if the Doctor is the Universe incarnate? Seems like if that secret was ever revealed it would basically destroy all of reality. Also, for it to be the first question it would have to be something the first 'thing' asks. 'What am I?'

    While an idirect method to reaching that answer, imagine something creating all of time and space, existing before anything else would, and having the first moment of realization....what if all of space and time was created for this being to figure out what it was...who it was?

    Whether the specifics prove true, I think the question of 'what's his name' is actually a question of who is he really. What is he? I think that answer is the true nature of the name, thus why there was so much significance placed on what name he chose instead. You could really weave in discourse on predestination, identity, and the power of names into this mythos because those questions are all floating in the background.
    I will point out my prior post.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    Well the Name of the final episode of this seasons Doctor Who has been named.

    Only I think I know what it should be, thanks to watching every available Episode. And looking at clues that Moffet himself has dropped.

    The biggest clue comes from the 4th Doctor, in the The Armageddon Factor (TV story) the Audience meets a Time Lord named Drax who knew the Doctor in School, his Nick Name was ΘΣ "Theta Sigma" or "Thete" for short. Now why is this strange double nick name interesting? "HELLO SWEETIE ΘΣ Φ ΓΥΔϟ" was written on the cliff as the first message. Now the Doctor says the greek are the co-ordinates to River Song

    Θ (9) Σ (200) Φ (500) Γ (3) Υ (400) Δ (4) ϟ (90)
    9, 200, 503, 404, 90.

    But Moffet is fully aware of the School name of the Doctor. So it can sort of be both a node to his name and the location.

    So why does ΘΣ tell us what his real name is? Why would the Secret Governments, and the Church of the future not want the Doctors name revealed what would be so devastating about his name?

    Going back to the greek we can find out why, the Early Chritians wrote the Bible in Greek, when they did they felt it was best not to use the name of God which was a sin in Judaism so they used two letters to represent God's name. ΘΣ.

    Yah thats right, the time lord kids called the Doctor ΘΣ to avoid using his birth name, and as soon as possible he choose to be called the Doctor and refused to let anyone know his birth name. So here is where it gets tricky Steven Moffet is Jewish so he is not going to use the Holy Jewish Name, however he can do a Gallifreyan version Which comes out sounding like John, or Joshua.

    Heres why if you say the Jewish Holy Name it sounds really close to Jhoway or Jonny to a crippled English speaking tongue. So the hilarity is his real Name could be Johnny Smith only said with a Hebrew Accent. But in Proper Gallifreyan it is the old Name of God.






    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/doctorwho...-of-the-Finale
    Now I am sure that was a good theory but the rumors about the 50th special have given out a new option for his name, one most Whovians will know and remember and also key, it too is a part of the classic name of god, but has always been thought of as a different character. The rumor is John Hurt is called Omega in the 50th.

    Now the significance here is :Omega

    He was one of 2, or three depending on source, Creators of Time lord Technology. Now in the books and comic books, it was three Rassilon, Omega, and the other. In the TV show the Other is never mentioned. In the Fiction the Other was the first incarnation of the Doctor. According to Time Lord tradition Rassilon founded Time lord Technology, made Regeneration Possible, and more or less was the God of Gallifrey in his own life. After he died his tomb was on Gallifrey and it was a massive structure with traps, and other things.

    However Rassilon didn't actually invent it all, he had a Partner Omega, but when Omega created the Eye of harmony he was pulled in to it and sent to a negative universe. Twice he tried to return, twice he failed, foiled by the Doctor.

    Now here is the problem, if John Hurt the Doctor goes by the Name Omega this will shatter current lore, but it would explain his not liking that name. Also it means at some point the Doctor will invent his own Tardis, and Rassilon will take credit, Also in the books and Comic Books the first living Tardis evolved from a Humanoid being. But thats a different discussion.

    p.s. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomina_sacra that will help with the Greek letters.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-20 at 03:13 PM ----------

    I should also point out One of the Names the GI said was the Beast. This implies the Idea that at some future point the Doctor Becomes the Being locked up on the Impossible planet. The being that existed before Time. It is also understood that The Doctors evil will split away from him creating the Valeyard. So using the Idea of ΘΣ being the name of the Doctor, then it is highly possible the final series of the Doctor will have this split, but it also means the Doctor will end up 100% good. I could see him chasing his evil through time and space and finally locking it up on the impossible planet. Also the idea that the Doctor some how might be the source of the original Big bang. guess what He did that already. So technically he created the Universe, so technically he is God, in the Whoverse.
    Last edited by Gothicshark; 2013-05-20 at 10:14 PM.

  6. #2066
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    i think its more likely he will end up being "the other" instead of a god since i dont think theres anyway they could ever top him turning out to be a god, i think the only way that could work out is if the show were going to end.

    series x finale "hes a god!"

    next series: ummmm i guess hes like talking to these aliens or something... umm daleks?

    lol i could just imagine how hard it would be to follow that
    So basically like Goku?:}

    I think the doctor might be 'godlike', but not a god. Though I guess it depends on what you think is a god, we already know some things claim themselves to be gods, and even heard people actually thinking someone is a god makes them godlike.

    I would like to discuss what this episode was about, the doctors name. I think some people might be a bit confused about his name. First we must ask what is a name? A name (in this case) is what you call someone, what someone is known for. In the dotcor's case, when he chose the name doctor, he did not pick it because it meant to be a healer but at random. You see there was no actual meaning of doctor, but with his actions he created the meaning, to be a healer/help fix things.

    Now normally when people ask the doctors name, He just says "My name is the doctor" now the the is very important, it is kind of like saying that he is the original doctor, the first one(going back to he gives the name the meaning).

    So now when he said he broke his promise, he did not mean he change his name or etc but that he broke the meaning of the name, he changed himself, hence breaking the promise/name. But now some people ask "what is the doctors true/first name", but I will ask you Why would it matter? Isn't a name something people now you by? So if he did have another name it means nothing, because no one know it. So his true name would be the doctor, I do not think they could ever try giving him another (true) name besides that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    I should also point out One of the Names the GI said was the Beast. This implies the Idea that at some future point the Doctor Becomes the Being locked up on the Impossible planet. The being that existed before Time. It is also understood that The Doctors evil will split away from him creating the Valeyard. So using the Idea of ΘΣ being the name of the Doctor, then it is highly possible the final series of the Doctor will have this split, but it also means the Doctor will end up 100% good. I could see him chasing his evil through time and space and finally locking it up on the impossible planet. Also the idea that the Doctor some how might be the source of the original Big bang. guess what He did that already. So technically he created the Universe, so technically he is God, in the Whoverse.
    I think he meant to the Daleks/Cybermen/etc that he to them he was the Beast, but not the literal beast.
    Last edited by apepi; 2013-05-20 at 11:36 PM.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  7. #2067
    Lil cloudy, but wasnt he the predator? And that theory about the beast from the impossible planet is interesting

  8. #2068
    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    I will point out my prior post.




    Now I am sure that was a good theory but the rumors about the 50th special have given out a new option for his name, one most Whovians will know and remember and also key, it too is a part of the classic name of god, but has always been thought of as a different character. The rumor is John Hurt is called Omega in the 50th.

    Now the significance here is :Omega

    He was one of 2, or three depending on source, Creators of Time lord Technology. Now in the books and comic books, it was three Rassilon, Omega, and the other. In the TV show the Other is never mentioned. In the Fiction the Other was the first incarnation of the Doctor. According to Time Lord tradition Rassilon founded Time lord Technology, made Regeneration Possible, and more or less was the God of Gallifrey in his own life. After he died his tomb was on Gallifrey and it was a massive structure with traps, and other things.

    However Rassilon didn't actually invent it all, he had a Partner Omega, but when Omega created the Eye of harmony he was pulled in to it and sent to a negative universe. Twice he tried to return, twice he failed, foiled by the Doctor.

    Now here is the problem, if John Hurt the Doctor goes by the Name Omega this will shatter current lore, but it would explain his not liking that name. Also it means at some point the Doctor will invent his own Tardis, and Rassilon will take credit, Also in the books and Comic Books the first living Tardis evolved from a Humanoid being. But thats a different discussion.

    p.s. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomina_sacra that will help with the Greek letters.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-20 at 03:13 PM ----------

    I should also point out One of the Names the GI said was the Beast. This implies the Idea that at some future point the Doctor Becomes the Being locked up on the Impossible planet. The being that existed before Time. It is also understood that The Doctors evil will split away from him creating the Valeyard. So using the Idea of ΘΣ being the name of the Doctor, then it is highly possible the final series of the Doctor will have this split, but it also means the Doctor will end up 100% good. I could see him chasing his evil through time and space and finally locking it up on the impossible planet. Also the idea that the Doctor some how might be the source of the original Big bang. guess what He did that already. So technically he created the Universe, so technically he is God, in the Whoverse.
    well had doctor who never been cancelled and the cartmel masterplan been allowed to continue the doctor wouldve became the other on screen. if they decided to make him omega it would kind of be like the same thing only it complicates it a bit more. but im pretty sure weve never seen omega face so its possible and the silence have a bunch of signs with omega on it but then that confuses it further, are they working for omega? or using his symbol to spite the doctor or make him angry or something.

    ugh NOVEMBER Y U NO HERE!

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-20 at 07:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Potente View Post
    Lil cloudy, but wasnt he the predator? And that theory about the beast from the impossible planet is interesting
    yeah they called him the predator, but when you think about it, the daleks dont remember him anymore so if the daleks think hes bathed in blood then he must nearly destroy them again in the future
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  9. #2069
    Anyone think it was a missed opportunity , that the Doctor clicked his fingers and the Tomb opened?

    "Would you please let me join your p-p-party?

  10. #2070
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Pvt Hudson View Post
    Anyone think it was a missed opportunity , that the Doctor clicked his fingers and the Tomb opened?
    His name is totally "click".

  11. #2071
    Quote Originally Posted by Helden View Post
    His name is totally "click".
    No but it would of been something the Doctor would of done to be funny :P

    "Would you please let me join your p-p-party?

  12. #2072
    Quote Originally Posted by Pvt Hudson View Post
    Anyone think it was a missed opportunity , that the Doctor clicked his fingers and the Tomb opened?
    am i the only one who thought his name was please before river song showed up
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  13. #2073
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    am i the only one who thought his name was please before river song showed up
    I rewound that scene 5 times to make sure he was saying please and not his actual name.
    Slaying 8bit dragons with 6 pixel long swords since 1987.

  14. #2074
    Maybe his real name is Doc Tor. Proud old Gallifreyan family, the Tors.
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    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
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    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  15. #2075
    Quote Originally Posted by Redmage View Post
    I rewound that scene 5 times to make sure he was saying please and not his actual name.
    lol me too, i kept goin "WHAT THE HELL DID HE SAY!?!"
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  16. #2076
    The Unstoppable Force Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    lol me too, i kept goin "WHAT THE HELL DID HE SAY!?!"
    Guilty here as well. I even had my wife beside me yelling the same question back at me.

    "What...did he say please?...Is please his name...rewind that, what did he say? I swear he said please. Wtf...he did say please"

    *unpause*
    *1 second later*

    Oh River
    BAD WOLF

  17. #2077
    Quote Originally Posted by Keile View Post
    Actually it was fairly close to what a friend and I speculated. We guessed correctly that his name was the password to unlocking something, though we were speculating that it would unlock the timelock around Gallefrey. So we were half right, it WAS a key to unlocking something at least.
    We don't yet know the ramifications of unlocking the TARDIS tomb and interfering with the Doctor's timestream. I'm guessing that the events of the season finale has "unlocked" the John Hurt Doctor, otherwise why else he is involved in the 50th anniversary special?

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-20 at 07:34 PM ----------

    A silly bit of speculation here but If you take the Omega symbol, break it in half and bend it a bit, it could pass for a question mark.

  18. #2078
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redmage View Post
    I rewound that scene 5 times to make sure he was saying please and not his actual name.
    At least five, and i couldn't hardly understand the please for at least 10 times, heh

  19. #2079
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grummgug View Post
    We don't yet know the ramifications of unlocking the TARDIS tomb and interfering with the Doctor's timestream. I'm guessing that the events of the season finale has "unlocked" the John Hurt Doctor, otherwise why else he is involved in the 50th anniversary special?

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-20 at 07:34 PM ----------

    A silly bit of speculation here but If you take the Omega symbol, break it in half and bend it a bit, it could pass for a question mark.
    He still has not really found a way out of his timestream...then after that we can see what has been done...
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  20. #2080
    Quote Originally Posted by Grummgug View Post
    We don't yet know the ramifications of unlocking the TARDIS tomb and interfering with the Doctor's timestream. I'm guessing that the events of the season finale has "unlocked" the John Hurt Doctor, otherwise why else he is involved in the 50th anniversary special?

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-20 at 07:34 PM ----------

    A silly bit of speculation here but If you take the Omega symbol, break it in half and bend it a bit, it could pass for a question mark.
    yeah thats what im wondering, also where exactly did they go? some strange side dimension where the doctors memories can take form or something? is hurt going to be an ally or the main villain? i think alot of people are expecting "oh he was bad but heres how hes gonna be good" but what if he turns out to be the villain of the story?

    and hasnt the bbc confirmed the daleks will show up at some point? maybe they unlocked all of the time war.

    who knows what will happen
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

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