[TV] Doctor Who

[Arrowstormen]

They do have a habit of giving the doctor something, then taking it away from him just to give him another reason to be emotionally unstable and guilt ridden. I feel like they'll kill Clara off somehow and this'll send him on yet another quest for redemption and "Am I a good man?" sort of thing to gain a conscience. Kind of a repeating story element for a long time now.

Kinda boring if companions just at the end say "eh, I'm bored, see ya" and the Doctor is totally cool with it and just goes to the next guy/girl. Plus, the Doctors have dealt with losing companions very differently so far.

[Shockeye]

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the basis for a seriously abusive relationship. The Doctor has become an abusive "boyfriend" or "father" or whatever you like because he treats Clara like crap, uses and manipulates her, and then claims he'll die if she leaves him. Clara needs to get out of that situation. But like all abusive relationships, the most dangerous situation is the break-up and the Doctor might actually explode / break bad in order to keep her.

Danny pretty much points this out when the Doctor gets angry with him and Danny says to Clara something to the effect of "THAT is what he's like". Ideally Clara will leave or be removed and the Doctor will dump this angst about whether he's good or not and just go in being *The Doctor*.
The whole Danny-being-concerned thing was a complete re-hash of Rose and Mickey/Rose's mom and their attitude towards the Doctor, practically note-for-note and as such enables lazy writing.

So yes, I agree with you, Deuse - Clara and the Doctor need to be separated for the integrity of both the titular character and the show.

[Deleted]

Thank you. Clara has no reason to stay with the Doctor. The only reason she sticks around is because she feels somehow responsible for his well-being, like he'll self-destruct without her. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the basis for a seriously abusive relationship. The Doctor has become an abusive "boyfriend" or "father" or whatever you like because he treats Clara like crap, uses and manipulates her, and then claims he'll die if she leaves him. Clara needs to get out of that situation. But like all abusive relationships, the most dangerous situation is the break-up and the Doctor might actually explode / break bad in order to keep her. I have the feeling that Clara is going to be taken away rather than choose to leave, like killed by Missy or something. But all the same the Doctor is going to lose it I hope. He needs to do something because he's just filling time right now and he absolutely needs to remove himself from Clara (for his own character development).

From the episode synopsis Clara leaves at the end of Mummy on the Orient Express. So knowing that, while what you say is true, it doesn't necessarily make for bad television. Personally I think this season is shaping up to be one of, it not the best season of Who. 4 and 5 are my current favourites, but I think 8 will be up there are the very least.

[Arrowstormen]

Danny pretty much points this out when the Doctor gets angry with him and Danny says to Clara something to the effect of "THAT is what he's like". Ideally Clara will leave or be removed and the Doctor will dump this angst about whether he's good or not and just go in being *The Doctor*.
The whole Danny-being-concerned thing was a complete re-hash of Rose and Mickey/Rose's mom and their attitude towards the Doctor, practically note-for-note and as such enables lazy writing.

So yes, I agree with you, Deuse - Clara and the Doctor need to be separated for the integrity of both the titular character and the show.

It's not. Mickey and Rose's mother and very different fears and motives than Danny concerning the Doctor. Mickey was jealous and at a point playing the "clumsy, scared boring human that's in contrast to the amazingness the Doctor offers" and Rose's mother was, well, Rose's mother. Twelfth is kind of Clara's "space dad", and Danny fears that he will push her too far and make her do things she don't want to do or finds unethical. Personally, I love the chemistry setup The Caretaker did.

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From the episode synopsis Clara leaves at the end of Mummy on the Orient Express. So knowing that, while what you say is true, it doesn't necessarily make for bad television. Personally I think this season is shaping up to be one of, it not the best season of Who. 4 and 5 are my current favourites, but I think 8 will be up there are the very least.

So far Listen and The Caretaker have been the only standout episodes for me, but if the second half picks up as I think it will, I could rank it pretty high. Season 5-7.5 is currently my favorite period, because of Eleven and the Ponds. Even though I'm not big on Martha, Season 3 also has a lot of pretty great episodes.

[Deleted]

So far Listen and The Caretaker have been the only standout episodes for me, but if the second half picks up as I think it will, I could rank it pretty high. Season 5-7.5 is currently my favorite period, because of Eleven and the Ponds. Even though I'm not big on Martha, Season 3 also has a lot of pretty great episodes.

Listen has been the only one I'd call standout, but imo the standout episodes only come along once in a blue moon. Overall, the entire season so far has been strong. Deep Breath was a great debut episode for Capaldi, Into the Dalek finally succeeded in making the Daleks interesting/threatening once again and The Robot of Sherwood was a fun piece of campy fluff. Listen was amazing but marred by the ending, Time Heist was decent but probably the weakest episode so far, and the Caretaker was another well executed comedic piece with some surprisingly serious interpersonal drama.

As for my personal season rankings:

5 is probably the best. My favourite companions and second favourite Doctor with a seasonal arc that wasn't riddled with plot holes. 4 was a great send-off to 10 with Donna providing a much needed breath of fresh air after Martha and Rose both being infatuated with the Doctor. Seeing all of the characters and plot lines from the past three years coming together was truly awesome. Seasons 2 and 3 I kind of lump together because it's been so long since I've seen most of those episodes but they were very good, mostly on a level with 4 but without the the epicosity of all the old plot threads tying together. 1 was solid, but after Tennant and Smith I've grown rather apathetic towards Eccleston. 6 had a very strong first half (almost entirely serialised) but an incredibly weak second half riddled with plot holes. Season 7 was disastrous. Unlike season 4 which managed to cap off all of Tennant's plot lines satisfactorily, Moffat completely failed at creating a satisfactory conclusion for The Silence Arc and the Impossibly Dull Girl only added to the mess. That said, the 50th managed to be fantastic. So:
> 5
> 4
> 2/3
> 1
> 6
> 7

8 will probably end up somewhere between 4 and 5 in terms of quality.

[Shockeye]

It's not. Mickey and Rose's mother and very different fears and motives than Danny concerning the Doctor. Mickey was jealous and at a point playing the "clumsy, scared boring human that's in contrast to the amazingness the Doctor offers" and Rose's mother was, well, Rose's mother. Twelfth is kind of Clara's "space dad", and Danny fears that he will push her too far and make her do things she don't want to do or finds unethical. Personally, I love the chemistry setup The Caretaker did.

Rose's mother was concerned for the safety of her daughter, Danny is concerned about the safety of Clara, both aggressively so, and in the case with both Jackie and Rose, and Danny and Clara, neither "protective" figure realises how much the person they are trying to protect enjoys being pushed too far, enjoys the thrill and the danger, that the person of whom they are protective isn't really the person they want, or think, them to be.

I will grant you that yeah, Mickey was more jealous than anything, so it's more Jackie and Danny filling very similar spaces. The Doctor is Clara's "space dad" and he was Rose's "space boyfriend", and both situations are too similar to be unique relationships.

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Listen has been the only one I'd call standout, but imo the standout episodes only come along once in a blue moon. Overall, the entire season so far has been strong. Deep Breath was a great debut episode for Capaldi, Into the Dalek finally succeeded in making the Daleks interesting/threatening once again and The Robot of Sherwood was a fun piece of campy fluff. Listen was amazing but marred by the ending, Time Heist was decent but probably the weakest episode so far, and the Caretaker was another well executed comedic piece with some surprisingly serious interpersonal drama.

Deep Breath was the only episode this season I thought was actually *good*, Into the Dalek and Caretaker were mostly decent, the rest have been significant let-downs, especially Listen, which started so strong and ended so weak.
It's just reinforced my belief that Doctor Who needs new creative talent on the production and writing side, Moffat and his regulars have become very lazy, turning in sub-par work, of which they are more than capable of exceeding.

[Arrowstormen]

Rose's mother was concerned for the safety of her daughter, Danny is concerned about the safety of Clara, both aggressively so, and in the case with both Jackie and Rose, and Danny and Clara, neither "protective" figure realises how much the person they are trying to protect enjoys being pushed too far, enjoys the thrill and the danger, that the person of whom they are protective isn't really the person they want, or think, them to be.

I will grant you that yeah, Mickey was more jealous than anything, so it's more Jackie and Danny filling very similar spaces. The Doctor is Clara's "space dad" and he was Rose's "space boyfriend", and both situations are too similar to be unique relationships.

Think you're generalizing a tad bit. Also, Clara doesn't enjoy being pushed too far, but we'll see that in the coming weeks.

Deep Breath was the only episode this season I thought was actually *good*, Into the Dalek and Caretaker were mostly decent, the rest have been significant let-downs, especially Listen, which started so strong and ended so weak.
It's just reinforced my belief that Doctor Who needs new creative talent on the production and writing side, Moffat and his regulars have become very lazy, turning in sub-par work, of which they are more than capable of exceeding.

That's subjective. I for one don't know anybody I would trust with running Doctor Who, who would reasonably do it.

Let's say that like Steven Moffat, the new showrunner would have to be a guy who's part of the writer's team.

Mark Gatiss:
The Unquiet Dead (S01)
The Idiot's Lantern (S02)
Victory of the Daleks (S05)
Night Terrors (S06)
Cold War (S07)
The Crimson Horror (S07)
Robot of Sherwood (S08)

Toby Whithouse:
School Reunion (S02)
Vampires of Venice (S05)
The God Complex (S06)
A Town Called Mercy (S07)

Gareth Roberts:
The Shakespeare Code (S03)
The Unicorn and the Wasp (S04)
The Lodger (S05)
Closing Time (S06)
The Caretaker (S08)

Chris Chibnall:
42 (S03)
The Hungry Earth (S05)
Cold Blood (S05)
Dinosaurs on a Spaceship (S07)
The Power of Three (S07)

Stephen Thompson:
The Curse of the Black Spot (S06)
Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS (S07)
Time Heist (S08)

[Deleted]

Deep Breath was the only episode this season I thought was actually *good*, Into the Dalek and Caretaker were mostly decent, the rest have been significant let-downs, especially Listen, which started so strong and ended so weak.
It's just reinforced my belief that Doctor Who needs new creative talent on the production and writing side, Moffat and his regulars have become very lazy, turning in sub-par work, of which they are more than capable of exceeding.

Into the Dalek was a pretty brilliant look at the Daleks imo, I think Moffat realised that they'd become a bit stale so here he came up with a story that didn't hinge on the Daleks winning or losing, and which potentially injected some new life into them with this idea of a more complex morality system. Time Heist I'll admit was a bit meh, for the reason you described above. I still think that over all Capaldi managed to salvage it to decent. Robot of Sherwood - I can see why it's divisive. But if you just accept that it's supposed to be campy fluff it does what it does very well. Listen was superb save for the ending. And even then, the idea that for once there was no monster of the week was nothing short of brilliant - If only they'd made the monster's appearances throughout the episode a little more ambiguous. Shoe-horning Clara into the Doctor's past is still problematic, but that's a broader complaint really.

That said, I do think that Moffat needs to step down as show runner. He's great at writing standalone episodes, but terrible at writing seasonal arcs. This season has been more episodic, but still seems preoccupied in creating a running plot thread that will probably end up making no sense and tarnishing the rest of the season. If Moffat would just realise what he's good at, and stick with minimalistic story arcs for the most part, I'd happily see him run the show for another three or four seasons. As it is though he thinks he's a lot cleverer than he actually is and it's really grating.

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That's subjective. I for one don't know anybody I would trust with running Doctor Who, who would reasonably do it.

I'll do it. I've already outlined an entire 13 episode + Christmas Special Season. Does anyone else do that?

[Arrowstormen]

I'll do it. I've already outlined an entire 13 episode + Christmas Special Season. Does anyone else do that?

Then I'd have to invent a Doctor and companions and such. Sounds fun though.

The last four episodes (the finale two parter excluded) is written by three new people I noticed. That'll be interesting.

[Deleted]

Then I'd have to invent a Doctor and companions and such. Sounds fun though.

The last four episodes (the finale two parter excluded) is written by three new people I noticed. That'll be interesting.

I came up with a Doctor played by Damian Lewis (because he needs to be ginger at some point) with a cat burglar from the future as his companion, because I'm tired of 21st century british companions. A more simplistic overarching plot, no cosmically significant companion and no Daleks.

[Kelimbror]

You know what would be really crazy? Having the Doctor regenerate as a preteen/child. Don't tone the show down at all and it would make for some interesting interactions. Might get stale though, but no different than saying how old and grumpy capaldi is every 5 minutes.

[Deleted]

You know what would be really crazy? Having the Doctor regenerate as a preteen/child. Don't tone the show down at all and it would make for some interesting interactions. Might get stale though, but no different than saying how old and grumpy capaldi is every 5 minutes.

I had a dream about that funnily enough. It was like a parallel Doctor Who spinoff for kids, it was pretty weird. I really doubt it'd work though. It could well be interesting for an episode or two, but the Doctor appearing to all other characters as a child would drastically influence every episode and interaction. It could be interesting for another Timelord though.

[MatadorMedia]

Kinda boring if companions just at the end say "eh, I'm bored, see ya" and the Doctor is totally cool with it and just goes to the next guy/girl. Plus, the Doctors have dealt with losing companions very differently so far.

I think the way in which the Doctor handles losing his companions can be very telling for his character. That's why I'm so looking forward to seeing the Twelfth Doctor sans Clara. I think he's not going to react very well, in particular I think he's going to get angry and controlling because of his abusive tendencies so far. Danny Pink is likely going to be his foil in that occasion because he is a much more level-headed and reality-based character. The Eleventh Doctor losing the Ponds was such a crucial part of his overall story arc.

"BRIAN: What happened to the other people who travel with you?"
"DOCTOR: Some left me. Some got left behind. And some, not many but, some died. Not them. Not them, Brian. Never them."
- The Power of Three

[worprz]

I'm not sure if I like the new doctor yet. I've only seen two episodes with him so far though. I liked the last two doctors pretty much instantly. I do like how this doctor is pretty different from the last two, I don't think they should get stuck with the same personality types too much.

[Arrowstormen]

I'm not sure if I like the new doctor yet. I've only seen two episodes with him so far though. I liked the last two doctors pretty much instantly. I do like how this doctor is pretty different from the last two, I don't think they should get stuck with the same personality types too much.

Think The Caretaker is my favorite episode so far if we talk about how we like Capaldi in it.

[worprz]

Think The Caretaker is my favorite episode so far if we talk about how we like Capaldi in it.

Awesome! I think I will end up liking him, I think he just has to grow on me more. It's not that I don't like Capaldi I think it mostly has to do with the last two doctors having such a similar personality.

[Shockeye]

Into the Dalek was a pretty brilliant look at the Daleks imo, I think Moffat realised that they'd become a bit stale so here he came up with a story that didn't hinge on the Daleks winning or losing, and which potentially injected some new life into them with this idea of a more complex morality system. Time Heist I'll admit was a bit meh, for the reason you described above. I still think that over all Capaldi managed to salvage it to decent. Robot of Sherwood - I can see why it's divisive. But if you just accept that it's supposed to be campy fluff it does what it does very well. Listen was superb save for the ending. And even then, the idea that for once there was no monster of the week was nothing short of brilliant - If only they'd made the monster's appearances throughout the episode a little more ambiguous. Shoe-horning Clara into the Doctor's past is still problematic, but that's a broader complaint really.

I can't disagree, and the overall source of my criticisms comes from good idea poorly executed, as though being "phoned in", like the production people are on autopilot. Every episode this season, save for maybe Sherwood, has been very high concept, with great potential, proven to be unmet.

Shoe-horning Clara in is a broader complaint, but also speaks to damage being done to the canon of the Doctor's character, just as the Christmas gifts of new regenerations will always be tied to official canon, regardless as to how immaturely handled it was. Making Clara the Doctor's guardian angel, his conscience, his everything, is character damage and I worry Moffat will keep it going.

That said, I do think that Moffat needs to step down as show runner. He's great at writing standalone episodes, but terrible at writing seasonal arcs. This season has been more episodic, but still seems preoccupied in creating a running plot thread that will probably end up making no sense and tarnishing the rest of the season. If Moffat would just realise what he's good at, and stick with minimalistic story arcs for the most part, I'd happily see him run the show for another three or four seasons. As it is though he thinks he's a lot cleverer than he actually is and it's really grating.

Moffat was a far better writer under a different producer than he is being both producer and writer. I don't know if it's that he can't handle the workload, or if he sees Sherlock as the more serious show and Doctor Who as the easy cash cow, or what's going on, but it's time for him to move on and be replaced with someone that has a harder sci-fi edge to them and less fantasy fairy-tales. With ~45 minute episodes, and only a dozen of them, the show should be more arc-dependent. One-offs don't work, and as you say Moffat doesn't do a large arc well, but can do a 2-3 story arc reasonably well.


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Let's say that like Steven Moffat, the new showrunner would have to be a guy who's part of the writer's team.

That's pretty bleak, to be honest. Gatiss is probably the best choice, but look at his resume here, a pretty solid list of episodes and then, Robots of Sherwood, like he couldn't be bothered to get out of bed to write that one.
Gareth Roberts has done good work as a writer, but his "down to Earth" tone would be very bad for being in charge of the show. Chibnall, Whitehouse, Thompson, gods no.

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I'm not sure if I like the new doctor yet. I've only seen two episodes with him so far though. I liked the last two doctors pretty much instantly. I do like how this doctor is pretty different from the last two, I don't think they should get stuck with the same personality types too much.

I like him, I just want him to have better episodes and be allowed to really *be* the Doctor. But he can carry a poor script, so that's good.

[Valnoressa]

That's pretty bleak, to be honest. Gatiss is probably the best choice, but look at his resume here, a pretty solid list of episodes and then, Robots of Sherwood, like he couldn't be bothered to get out of bed to write that one.

I imagine I would have enjoyed Robots of Sherwood more if they had got some of the cast of the BBC show they did a few years back "Robin Hood" to play the characters. I mean that show is over now and I preferred that interpretation of Robin Hood rather than the Shakespeare-esque tights and silly hat version. Felt extremely cheap to me.

[Gallahadd]

My vote still goes to Toby Whithouse, his work on Being Human was amazing, given the darker tone they're going for now he could REALLY have some fun!

Of course my REAL vote goes to Neil Gaiman, but that's never going to happen .

[Frozenbeef]

The doctor really should invent some timey wimey facebook/ twitter so he can keep in contact with all his ex companions >.<