[TV] Doctor Who

[Kelimbror]

Enjoyable, but ultimately forgettable. Sonic sunglasses feels like Moffat trying too hard. Maybe this is how people felt every time Smith referenced his bow tie? Idk. All in good fun I suppose.

[Gallahadd]

GREAT episode, this opening 2prt has been AWESOME and honestly I don't understand how anyone can hate on Capaldi after this performance...

Sonic Sunglasses are... Insane, bit stupid, bit fun, just right to balance out some of the darker parts of the episode.

I thought the resolution was pretty good, one of the main criticisms leveled at the first part was "Urg, so predictable, I know EXACTLY how it's going to end up."

I DARE anyone to say they predicted that ending!

I thought the whole scene where Missy first put Clara in the Dalek was awesome, then add to that the LAST scene with The Doctor nearly killing Clara... AWESOME, I actually had goosebumps, but mostly just because I thought I'd finally get my wish and Clara would fucking die...

My only criticism is the resolution of the "Child Davros" section which felt a little tame after the rest of the episode. Plus... How much do you want to bet a fair few Dalek are going to survive...

Btw, all that talk of a Timelord Dalek Hybrid... Why do I get the feeling it's going to be fucking Clara? Due to her fusing with the Doctor's timeline, plus her time in the Dalek (both times...)

All told a 10/10 two parter, can't WAIT for next week which looks crazy good and pretty freaky.

[Keile]

Great episode, but... Sonic Sunglasses? Really?!? I really REALLY hope that's not going to stay, it kinda made me upset and feel disappointed...

I have a hunch that they will not last that long and he will have the Screwdriver again after a few episodes.

The screwdriver is as iconic as the TARDIS, they wouldn't just permanently get rid of it.

[Deleted]

I have a hunch that they will not last that long and he will have the Screwdriver again after a few episodes.

The screwdriver is as iconic as the TARDIS, they wouldn't just permanently get rid of it.

not really, they phased it out for ages before the reboot in 2005. Even though the doctor is a walking deus ex who travels in a deus ex box....the screwdrives just gives too many auto-get out clauses that it makes it too easy for the writers to take the easy way out. They are obsessed with deus ex, and I for one would be glad if they hired some talent for the writing team and not the hacks they have at it recently.

[Wondercrab]

Mhm, the screwdriver will be back before long, probably with a shiny new redesign for Capaldi. The sonic shades can be a fun silly gimmick for a bit, though.
This episode was a lot better than the opening one. It had the kind of tightness that makes good Moffat scripts work, without the creativity overload that bloats a lot of the weaker ones. I did see Davros's ploy coming a mile away, but the way he did it, and the subsequent reversal by the Doctor, was clever and awesomely set up.
I still don't think there was any reason for Missy to be in this story other than for the sake of giving us more Missy, but she's fantastic enough for that to be reason enough alone at the moment. All of her shenanigans with Clara were great, and the stuff inside the dalek was creative and compelling.

My minor gripes -- and they're not really gripes about the episode, but more issues I noticed regarding the show as a whole -- are with the daleks and Clara. The Moffat era does a good job of making the daleks better creepy villains, I've noticed, particularly in the Asylum episode and with the spooky sewer sludge in this one. But they're also not very interesting as *characters* any more. As much as I look back on a lot of RTD episodes and cringe, one thing I loved about them was some of the silly campiness they brought to the daleks. They're the kind of villains who are inherently a little goofy, and playing up that element makes them amazing. When they're bickering, rolling around going nuts, and making exaggerated "waaaaaugh~" noises, they're a joy to have on screen. Moffat's been doubling down on the serious vibe of them, though, and while I think he does a good job in succeeding at that, it comes at the expense of some of their more vibrant fun-factor. Doctor Who is the kind of show that plays fast and loose with its tone enough that it could easily pull off both, and I can't help but feel like the daleks have been a little blander than they could be for a while now.

I'm also starting to feel a bit of the Clara fatigue for the first time. I still like Clara, and I think she's probably still the strongest individual companion alongside Donna (who I didn't like, but I recognise that's because all I see is Catherine Tate playing Catherine Tate rather than because of any inherent problems with the character). But Clara is still unexceptional, and she's been around for a long time considering her most interesting arc was resolved within her first few episodes. She's fun and very likeable when they give her stuff to do, but it doesn't feel like there's any real meat left to her character. She's just around because the Doctor needs a companion, and as a result it's hard to get invested in her, especially when she has no real role in an episode and someone like Missy is upstaging her so hard.
It's probably just time for a new companion, one who has fresh motivations, new ideas, and a personal set of goals that allow for a little more emotional investment from the audience.

But a good second episode! Fun, compelling, full of creative little ideas, and with just enough resolution to be satisfying. It's a shame the previous part couldn't have been a bit more focused, but overall it was still a pretty decent series opening.

[ciggy]

I kind of seen capaldi as the opposite of smith. Smith was light and bubbly on the outside but had a serious dark side buried beneath. Capaldi is dark and brooding on the outside but has a fun side beneath

Exactly, it's so cool to see how that looks on the flip side. I have to admit, I didn't know much about capaldi, but that dude is solid.. He's going to be a real good doctor, hell he already is.

Hell, i adore missy too, and I really didn't want too. She's yummy.

[Mister K]

I need to get back into this properly. I keep quiting the episode out midway through. The comedy classics are just not there. Then again, the first two episodes were rather on the more "serious" note than usual... well ish.

[Ryme]

Craptastic standard Dr Who reset button ending, otherwise decent opener.

[Kelimbror]

Was anyone else actually really disappointed when they reduced Davros and the Doctor's connection to a plot device of one upsmanship? I think that's where the episode went downhill to me. They had a really good opportunity to have mortal enemies bonded in friendship, a theme they are already directly tackling, wrote some really great lines...got some really great performances...and then wasted it with monster of the week shenanigans of cackling, finger flexing, and declaring a triumph while detailing your entire plan only to have the Doctor null it with time lord juju and precog.

For once I thought they had gotten incredibly complex and deep, only to trash it with the ending. Especially the complete lack of resolution with Davros. To think that even after watching him try to play the Doctor to the Nth degree that he would still put in a 'mercy' clause for Daleks.

God...what horrible writing. The more I reflect on this episode, the angrier I am that it lasted 10 minutes too long to ruin everything that came before it. And I'm not even one of the Moffat hate train riders, but I R disappoint.

[Ryme]

Pretty much exactly my thoughts, was genuinely feeling things during Who episode which hasn't happened in some time.

[Deleted]

Was anyone else actually really disappointed when they reduced Davros and the Doctor's connection to a plot device of one upsmanship? I think that's where the episode went downhill to me. They had a really good opportunity to have mortal enemies bonded in friendship, a theme they are already directly tackling, wrote some really great lines...got some really great performances...and then wasted it with monster of the week shenanigans of cackling, finger flexing, and declaring a triumph while detailing your entire plan only to have the Doctor null it with time lord juju and precog.

For once I thought they had gotten incredibly complex and deep, only to trash it with the ending. Especially the complete lack of resolution with Davros. To think that even after watching him try to play the Doctor to the Nth degree that he would still put in a 'mercy' clause for Daleks.

God...what horrible writing. The more I reflect on this episode, the angrier I am that it lasted 10 minutes too long to ruin everything that came before it. And I'm not even one of the Moffat hate train riders, but I R disappoint.

I agree, I would have much preferred Davros to be sincere in his final moments. Those scenes were genuinely touching and then just ruined. Seeing as Davros does not directly control the Daleks, they could easily have had a final redemption for him while still keeping the Daleks as a threat to be defeated.

[Kelimbror]

Pretty much exactly my thoughts, was genuinely feeling things during Who episode which hasn't happened in some time.

I agree, I would have much preferred Davros to be sincere in his final moments. Those scenes were genuinely touching and then just ruined. Seeing as Davros does not directly control the Daleks, they could easily have had a final redemption for him while still keeping the Daleks as a threat to be defeated.

Me too! For once they directly tackled things they like to play about with metaphor, about being a good person...analyzing what makes the Doctor who he is, that even darkest enemies have some form of care about the other...

And god the performances of those two men were stunning. The laughter they shared when he said Capaldi was a bad Doctor. It was all so genuine. And while we can say 'maybe it was real' the fact that they rather bluntly wrote them both out of it was shocking and served to trash everything good that came before it.

The more I think about it, the first half of the episode was one of my favorites of all time. The second half pretty much the worst. I just...uggh. That was seriously frustrating.

[Deleted]

I suppose one could justify it by saying that though they each knew that they had to deceive the other, the emotions they channelled into those deceptions were genuine. I mean the Doctor's shame at leaving child!Davros certainly wasn't feigned. That still doesn't quite gel, as both of them discarded their mourning personae rather abruptly and I doubt it was Moffat's intention for either (especially Davros) to be sincere. But dammit those were some of the best scenes in NuWho's history and I'm not going to be forced to ignore them.

[Kelimbror]

I suppose one could justify it by saying that though they each knew that they had to deceive the other, the emotions they channelled into those deceptions were genuine. I mean the Doctor's shame at leaving child!Davros certainly wasn't feigned. That still doesn't quite gel, as both of them discarded their mourning personae rather abruptly and I doubt it was Moffat's intention for either (especially Davros) to be sincere. But dammit those were some of the best scenes in NuWho's history and I'm not going to be forced to ignore them.

Yeah that is the problem. That's why I think he could always say 'oh no, totally real even though they were tricking eachother', but narratively he took away all the impact of that by abruptness of the change. If it was real, there would have been lingering feelings from the scene while ultimately the same end result.

It's like Moffat completely lost sight of the awesome thing he wrote in favor of making sure to get his clever little twist in there. I think I'm ready for a new showrunner.

[Deleted]

Yeah that is the problem. That's why I think he could always say 'oh no, totally real even though they were tricking eachother', but narratively he took away all the impact of that by abruptness of the change. If it was real, there would have been lingering feelings from the scene while ultimately the same end result.

It's like Moffat completely lost sight of the awesome thing he wrote in favor of making sure to get his clever little twist in there. I think I'm ready for a new showrunner.

I've been ready since season 6. It's the cast that really keeps the quality up, and the fact that as most stories are standalone poor continuity is not always as disastrous as it is in other shows. If this was a fully arc centred show with Moffat's style of writing I think I would have stopped watching a long time ago.

[Swizzington]

Yeah that is the problem. That's why I think he could always say 'oh no, totally real even though they were tricking eachother', but narratively he took away all the impact of that by abruptness of the change. If it was real, there would have been lingering feelings from the scene while ultimately the same end result.

It's like Moffat completely lost sight of the awesome thing he wrote in favor of making sure to get his clever little twist in there. I think I'm ready for a new showrunner.

Davros is evil. Plain and simple. He tried (and nearly succeeded) to destroy fucking reality itself. This ain't some sane geezer with some touching backstory or was somehow just doing what he did to protect his babies. He's completely and utterly insane. There could never be a redemption. It seemed pretty obvious to me it was some sort of trickery from the start of it.

Besides, if you look back at the history of Davros it would've been some huge 'fuck you' to his entire past for him to suddenly be 'redeemed'.

In fact it only amplifies how despicably evil he is that he tries to use the Doctor's compassion against him, the thing Davros always said was the Doctor's only weakness, to be able to exploit that in such a monumental way would be his greatest glory, he said as much himself.

The way they did it was the best way they could've done it. I would've utterly facepalmed if Davros suddenly being 'good' was legit.

[Kelimbror]

*snip*

Characters that grow and develop and are further defined by experiences we didn't know until now (like as a boy) help create a compelling narrative. I'm sorry I like interesting characters and good stories instead of evil for the sake of evil.

And besides all that hullabaloo you said, it should have been equally as strange from your view to see him laughing and crying in genuine displays. He didn't take master acting classes and have a magical device that could produce tears. He was actually going to die if his plan didn't work. Sort that out.

I'm sorry that the thought of something as scary as 'emotions' would have made you angry. :-/

[Swizzington]

Characters that grow and develop and are further defined by experiences we didn't know until now (like as a boy) help create a compelling narrative. I'm sorry I like interesting characters and good stories instead of evil for the sake of evil.

And besides all that hullabaloo you said, it should have been equally as strange from your view to see him laughing and crying in genuine displays. He didn't take master acting classes and have a magical device that could produce tears. He was actually going to die if his plan didn't work. Sort that out.

I'm sorry that the thought of something as scary as 'emotions' would have made you angry. :-/

Nope. I'm the last person who wants something to be 'evil for the sake of being evil'. For instance I thought the way that Blizzard wrote Deathwing's character in Cataclysm was ridiculous.

Davros has been around for like 40 years. He's been consistently evil for the entire duration. That's what he is. That's what the Daleks are. Pure evil. That's the whole point. I'm not debating whether it's 'interesting' or whether it would be more 'compelling' if Davros suddenly had a conscience and could be redeemed, but that train left the station decades ago.

My point is that the character created in this show, since the beginning, has been PURE EVIL. Like it or not. It would be bizarrely inconsistent for all that to change now for the sake of making him more 'interesting'.

Additionally, what some people may call the most 'evil' people in typical human society, such as manipulative sociopaths, are also the best at faking emotions and deceiving people. It seems plausible to me that Davros could do all that 'emotional' stuff as a deception.

[Kelimbror]

It seems plausible to me that Davros could do all that 'emotional' stuff as a deception.

To the point of putting the 'mercy' clause in Daleks?

*Gotcha*

[Deleted]

It would be plausible for Davros to deceive the Doctor like that, however I think it less plausible for the Doctor to be the same. Mainly though, plausible or not, Davros' deception negated some incredibly beautiful and touching scenes. I value those sorts of character moments over cheap "gotcha's."