Dungeon of Trials?

[bladeraze]

That just doesn't make any sense. Are you saying that solo questing and mob grinding is the same atmosphere and gameplay as a dungeon? Because it's not, in any way shape or form. Especially if you are a tank or healer. Soloing and dungeon running are two very different experiences, and there is no way in hell that you can learn how to accurately play your class well through soloing. You learn in the dungeons, you perfect it in heroics, and you're expected to know it for raids. Period.

This whole thread is disgusting. I understand elitism in raids. I tolerate it to some extent in heroics. But you know you are the extreme epitome of an elitist bastard when you're actually suggestion exclusionary tactics for regular dungeons. You don't have access to a guild, or a group to play with? That sucks, it truly does...but you know what? Fucking tough. You click the random dungeon button, you take the risks. If you don't want to risk getting a bad group, then take YOUR time to form a group. That's the trade off. You want a quick dungeon that forms with minimal effort, you risk bads. You want a good dungeon, you take the time to carefully craft your own group. Sorry, you can't have the whole game tailor-made for your own convenience, while inconveniencing those you decide it should.

You missed the point, a hunter learns to use a trap correctly in a solo questing situation, learns to use more then just auto shot etc etc. That is what I meant, I still find a loooot of people in randoms that don't even bother hitting more then one button and let the others do the job.

So what, you are telling me that not even the slightest attempt from a player to actually go beyond one-button-slamming is what I should expect from random groups?!

Add to that those idiots are able to run off with gear others have worked for, yea I could form a group, but getting one for lower level instances is near impossible, especially if you don't want to waste a huge chunk of my playing time on getting a group together where as in the same time I could've finished an instance.

[Martinussen]

I like the idea.
here is how it works.

Random Tank joins Dungeon Tester! He have 3 phases to test.

Phase 1:

(BTW! the tank is unkillable at this part! he just have to learn to keep threat)
The tanks job in here is to keep the mobs off the dps and healer.
There will be 3 dps npc's and 1 healer npc.
Each will generate a decided amount of threat each second as well dmg on the mobs.
This is so it seems more real, and OFC! these dps's dont attack other then tanks target/ targets tank already have aggro on.

If the tank is focusing on Enemy 1, and get aggro from Enemy 2, NPC's will random attack one those targets. this is here the tank get's on a trial.
The NPC's will eventually get aggro if the tank dont start attacking Enemy 2.

So DPS NPC 1 is going on Enemy 1
while DPS NPC 2-3 is going on Enemy 2.
Tank have to keep aggro on both.

This is phase one, to keep aggro from multiple target in different difficulties.



Phase two:

(BTW the tank won't be able to loose aggro! he just have to stay alive with what ever he got while the healer is not able to heal! pots count to!)
Tank gotta survive duing high dmg taken.

Very simple, he simply gotta make some use of his CD's and just stay alive as the Healer NPC is, stunned, for like 5 seconds

he do not have to worry about threat here.

Phase 3:
Phase 1+2.

(BTW the tank has to do real tanking but with many targets to take care of + he gotta stay alive! ALONE)
Healer NPC is stunned and you gotta keep aggro on Enemy 1,2 and 3. with 1 DPS NPC on each.
This is the fail or bail part.
Can eh survive for 5 seconds or 10? 15 depending on how hard they hit, WHILE keeping aggro so he cant be spamming defensive CD's.

[Knyx]

You missed the point, a hunter learns to use a trap correctly in a solo questing situation, learns to use more then just auto shot etc etc. That is what I meant, I still find a loooot of people in randoms that don't even bother hitting more then one button and let the others do the job.

So what, you are telling me that the slightest attempt from a player to actually go beyond one-button-slamming is what I should expect from random groups?!

Add to that those idiots are able to run off with gear others have worked for, yea I could form a group, but getting one for lower level instances is near impossible, especially if you don't want to waste a huge chunk of my playing time on getting a group together where as in the same time I could've finished an instance.

Yes, that's true about hunter traps and similar things. However, it's not true about misdirection or other various skills that hunters would need to employ in dungeons, but not in solo situations. And frankly, soloing and questing is so easy that the extra skills aren't even really necessary. Things like trap are more of an inconvenience than an asset in soloing. It takes more time to lay the trap than it does to kill the mob in most cases. So many skills and talents aren't needed in solo situations, so someone who doesn't know better wouldn't know to use them in a group situation. I know, it seems hard to fathom to seasoned vets of the game, but to the people out there who are actual new players, they may need guidance and help, rather than just shutting them out of the parts of the game you like.

And am I suggesting that the bare minimum effort is what you should expect from any player you group with? Yep, I am. Welcome to the real world. Would it be easier for everyone if all players knew immediately how to play their character to perfection? Hell yeah. Is that realistic? Hell no.

but getting one for lower level instances is near impossible, especially if you don't want to waste a huge chunk of my playing time on getting a group together where as in the same time I could've finished an instance

That's my point. You don't want to be inconvenienced. However, you want to inconvenience them to make the game more convenient for you. That's not fair or realistic. In this world we make concessions. You want a flawless ribeye steak cooked to perfection with all the trimmings of a 5 star restaurant meal? You go to a 5 star restaurant where it's going to take longer for your meal to arrive. You want to just eat some subpar meat without all the wait and hullabaloo? You go to McDonalds. You trade convenience and quickness for perfection in essentially every aspect of life. WoW is no different. So, sorry, it doesn't seem fair or feasible to me to inconvenience every other paying customer that you deem lesser just to make your experience, or even my experience, that much better.

[bladeraze]

That's my point. You don't want to be inconvenienced. However, you want to inconvenience them to make the game more convenient for you. That's not fair or realistic. In this world we make concessions. You want a flawless ribeye steak cooked to perfection with all the trimmings of a 5 star restaurant meal? You go to a 5 star restaurant where it's going to take longer for your meal to arrive. You want to just eat some subpar meat without all the wait and hullabaloo? You go to McDonalds. You trade convenience and quickness for perfection in essentially every aspect of life. WoW is no different. So, sorry, it doesn't seem fair or feasible to me to inconvenience every other paying customer that you deem lesser just to make your experience, or even my experience, that much better.

Then my suggestion about so called 'skill' brackets for more and less experienced players would be an option, based on activity, damage and overall performance players should be placed in either 'noob' teams, more 'casual' teams and 'experienced' teams for example.

Seriously, I don't mind less skiled players, I like to help, but I don't want to put up with people that are simply not willing to put an effort into improving their game.

[Knyx]

Then my suggestion about so called 'skill' brackets for more and less experienced players would be an option, based on activity, damage and overall performance players should be placed in either 'noob' teams, more 'casual' teams and 'experienced' teams for example.

Seriously, I don't mind less skiled players, I like to help, but I don't want to put up with people that are simply not willing to put an effort into improving their game.

I agree with what you're saying to some extent. For those people who just do not want to learn the game, and who won't take any suggestions whatsoever....hell, I say screw them. But there are those people who just simply lack the experience to know what to do. I was in a guild way back in BC with this guy who played a warlock. He didn't get it. He was horrible. Most of his gems were mp5, and he even had a couple of stam gems that he put in to match socket colors. Meanwhile he lhad like 2% hit. He was a friend of the GM, and that's why he was in. He Didn't understand the class at all. I've played a warlock since Vanilla. I'm not uber awesome OMG look at me, but I understand the class and took it upon myself to teach him what to do. And he was willing to learn. And those are the people that I don't like to see get screwed because of other people who don't know and don't care and get pissed when you offer advice.

I guess my point is this, and I didn't really articulate it at all while raging.....dungeons are a blip on the radar. So yeah...you didn't get a good group for SM. That sucks. But you'll soon level past that and any gear you would have gotten would be soon replaced anyway. They are the definition of a learning experience. Instituting something like skill brackets for what is essentially a small portion of the game is pointless. It's not endgame. It's not your goal. Unless you're a twink (which is another thing I don't want to get started on) then I doubt your ultimate goal is to be the best player that BFD has ever seen. So you accept that these early dungeons ARE, in fact, the rookie skill class and move on. You'll have a crappy dungeon, gain 10 levels by tomorrow, and move on to bigger and better things.

[Deleted]

But that would mean that people that would be grouped in the lowest brackets would never be able to complete a heroic because all of them are brain dead retards, would be nice for me though.

[sicness]

Then my suggestion about so called 'skill' brackets for more and less experienced players would be an option, based on activity, damage and overall performance players should be placed in either 'noob' teams, more 'casual' teams and 'experienced' teams for example.

Seriously, I don't mind less skiled players, I like to help, but I don't want to put up with people that are simply not willing to put an effort into improving their game.

Well the whole bullshit excuse that people like yourself bring up when discussing these situations about players not wanting to improve is just that, bullshit. I've never run into anyone in game who truly didn't care about how they played and didn't take sound advice when it was given to them appropriately. So that whole lame excuse really needs to be ditched here. The few and rare players that may not want to ever improve likely don't go into 5 mans anyways so you're avoiding them completely for the most part.

So you'd rather just gather up all the 'noobs' and put them in their own dungeon so heaven forbid you don't wipe on a 5 man boss. I'm sorry if you truly want that there are methods to go about doing it, and they will never and should never implement something like what you want because that defeats the whole purpose of the game. Get over it, bad players exist in this game, and elitists like yourself need to either get your own groups or not do 5 mans all together. If you're not willing to help other players then you shouldn't expect everyone in your group to play optimally when you yourself are either too lazy or don't care enough for them to improve EXCEPT when it effects you.

[bladeraze]

Well the whole bullshit excuse that people like yourself bring up when discussing these situations about players not wanting to improve is just that, bullshit. I've never run into anyone in game who truly didn't care about how they played and didn't take sound advice when it was given to them appropriately. So that whole lame excuse really needs to be ditched here. The few and rare players that may not want to ever improve likely don't go into 5 mans anyways so you're avoiding them completely for the most part.

So you'd rather just gather up all the 'noobs' and put them in their own dungeon so heaven forbid you don't wipe on a 5 man boss. I'm sorry if you truly want that there are methods to go about doing it, and they will never and should never implement something like what you want because that defeats the whole purpose of the game. Get over it, bad players exist in this game, and elitists like yourself need to either get your own groups or not do 5 mans all together. If you're not willing to help other players then you shouldn't expect everyone in your group to play optimally when you yourself are either too lazy or don't care enough for them to improve EXCEPT when it effects you.

It's pretty obvious you haven't played the game long enough to experience what I wrote down in this topic.
There are so many players out there that could not give a shit about what the rest of a dungeon group would want to or what to get, so they will just stick to their own mind and either pretend to be complete assholes or just are. I don't know about you, but on European servers there also are a lot of people NOT speaking the same language, unlike US servers (a lot of americans tend to forget EU even has seperated language realms but not all countries got their own realms and there are a lot of players that do not even understand english) so that makes explaining a lot harder to some players.
And yea, the 'noobs' I refer to should be grouped with people of their own skill level, they learn together, also it's easier for people from the same level of skill to understand each other than a 'pro' talking to a 'noob' about gems and glyphs and the noob has no fucking idea what he's talking about.
The point is, you and some others seem to be missing it because you probably cba to read whatever was written earlier, that I'm not willing to drag EXTREMELY useless people that do not take an effort to help out in the slightest possible way (for example, that mage could've casted only fireball or frostbolt and he would topping DPS, because that's how easy Mages are to play during leveling, but he even cba'd to do that, even after I told him, twice or even three times). But it's EVEN worse when idiots like that are running off with gear I and others needed on that actually worked to get to that point (the mage even needed a shield and leather gear in Scholo).

Oh and nowhere I said I'm an Elitist, I am more experienced than a lot of players (seem to be) but I'm no hardcore raider or full time player.

[Lovestar]

Requiring completion of a "training dungeon" which spelled out the basic principles of the game in large, bold, clear terms would be healthy for everyone involved.

I still don't understand why Blizz leaves so much of the burden of educating new players on other players. In a lot of ways, the game doesn't even try to explain the very important details of proper play to new people. If anything, it deliberately overinflates their egos with truly braindead questing and no-pressure leveling dungeons.

Not too thrilled with the long-term prospect of weekly performance evaluations just to use LFD, though. That's a bit much.