Tank Trinket Help

[Purenight]

ok so I have been using the JC trinket Figurine - Earthen Guardian

also picked up Leaden Despair Heroic

both are +427 stam which is ok but today in H ToT I picked up Porcelain Crab Heroic


now I was wondering if I should replace my Leaden with the crab? I could reforge sum of the dodge and get sum mastery out of it and with the proc it would be nice.....

would just love to get your thoughts on it plz and thx

here is a link to my armory.....sry was kinda thrown back into tanking at the last moment and haven't had time to get all his reps up

us.battle.net/wow/en/character/durotan/purefear/simple

[shadowkras]

Use both, dont replace any of them. Use sta trinkets for fights that you take a lot of magical damage or you take big hits at certain intervals, and avoidance trinkets for fights you take a lot of physical damage, or trash.

[Monteverdi]

Stamina Trinkets > Avoidance Trinkets

RNG is bad

[lumpheed]

Stamina Trinkets > Avoidance Trinkets

RNG is bad

In WotLK yes, in Cata, I don't believe that holds so true anymore.

Stam whore tanks are just mana sponges for their healers. Huge player health pools as standard means bosses will not insta gib you anymore, unless it is with a channeled / interuptable etc mechanic, which hits for a set % of your max health i.e. some boss special attacks will scale with your health.

As suggested above, keep em and see which performs better in a given scenario

[Staci]

In terms of raiding I have found that stam is still king followed closely by mastery. Once your healers get enough spirit, mana is no longer an issue. With DK self healing you really can't ever have enough stam since blood parasite, death strike and rune tap all scale according to your max hp.

[Skandulous]

stam is king as vengeance is increased with the more health you have which equals harder deathstrikes that heal and absorb way more damage


Vengeance Passive
Each time you take damage, you gain 5% of the damage taken as attack power, up to a maximum of 10% of your health.

[Dazed]

That doesn't mean Avoidance is bad, it means that Stam/Mastery is very good still, but avoidance will give your healers a nice little breather every once in a while, to keep them going

[Needonboots]

In terms of raiding I have found that stam is still king followed closely by mastery. Once your healers get enough spirit, mana is no longer an issue. With DK self healing you really can't ever have enough stam since blood parasite, death strike and rune tap all scale according to your max hp.

Fight dependent as well though. EG on Chimaeron, an extra 2-3% health or so is nothing when you're kept at 10-20% the whole fight anyway. I'm actually beginning to try out the the other options to the stamina trinkets, because the way our health pools are, it's a much smaller gain proportionally, and not necessarily as effective.

For magic heavy fights I'd still favour one stamina trinket, and then probably the Mastery trinket from Tol Barad with the on use 400 magic resist.

[lunchbox2042]

Why not reforge some of the dodge from Porcelain crab to mastery?

[Deleted]

Personally, as dk tank, I rather stamina trinket. But bigger hp pool is not the only reason. It's not direct reason at least. Death Strike heals you for - let me quote - minimum of at least 7% of your maximum health, what basicly means that more hp you have = 7% will mean higher amount of heal you will recive = higher amount of melee damage blood shield will absorb. Please correct me if I'm totally wrong.

[Kevin]

I always try and rock a stam and an avoidance. I've never completely bought into EH. The math is solid, but i've never felt like the results matched up enough to push for it much.

[Monteverdi]

In WotLK yes, in Cata, I don't believe that holds so true anymore.

Stam whore tanks are just mana sponges for their healers. Huge player health pools as standard means bosses will not insta gib you anymore, unless it is with a channeled / interuptable etc mechanic, which hits for a set % of your max health i.e. some boss special attacks will scale with your health.

As suggested above, keep em and see which performs better in a given scenario

I kind of agree with you. Blindly stacking stamina gems, with blatant disregard to socket color, is no longer the best idea. However, I think that when considering trinkets, the benefit of a stamina trinket far outweighs the avoidance trinket. It's just the reliance on the RNG that bugs me so much. Sure, avoided hits are obviously easier on healer mana, but that's *if* the RNG works in your favor.

Also... the thought of being a 'mana sponge' is only half true. Having more health doesn't mean you take any more healer mana to keep alive, if they're a good healer they'll not be trying to keep you topped off all the time. Rather, taking things like avoidance means that possibly take *less* mana to heal, again dependent on the RNG.

[catalystical]

Trinket selection has always been dependent on the fight at hand. There's no fixed set of trinkets for all encounters.

Rule of Thumb: Stam for magic, avoidance for melee. If you're picking up adds, you can choose avoidance. If you're doing Throne of the Four Winds, Stam. So on and so forth.

[Deleted]

Personally, as dk tank, I rather stamina trinket. But bigger hp pool is not the only reason. It's not direct reason at least. Death Strike heals you for - let me quote - minimum of at least 7% of your maximum health, what basicly means that more hp you have = 7% will mean higher amount of heal you will recive = higher amount of melee damage blood shield will absorb. Please correct me if I'm totally wrong.

Yep, pettry much this.

[Purenight]

thx a lot for the help guys

[Deleted]

Death Strike heals for a minimum of 7% of your HP. The key word here being minimum. The heal amount isn't effected by maximum HP in the slightest when you're actually taking damage and need the heal.

[Morphemus]

Death Strike heals for a minimum of 7% of your HP. The key word here being minimum. The heal amount isn't effected by maximum HP in the slightest when you're actually taking damage and need the heal.

This. 1 Avoidance, 1 stam for basics. Gem Stam/Parry dodge or mastery. Straight stam is bad. Very, very bad.

[DomBomb1]

In terms of raiding I have found that stam is still king followed closely by mastery. Once your healers get enough spirit, mana is no longer an issue.

So utterly and completely false.

---------- Post added 2010-12-27 at 06:51 AM ----------

Personally, as dk tank, I rather stamina trinket. But bigger hp pool is not the only reason. It's not direct reason at least. Death Strike heals you for - let me quote - minimum of at least 7% of your maximum health, what basicly means that more hp you have = 7% will mean higher amount of heal you will recive = higher amount of melee damage blood shield will absorb. Please correct me if I'm totally wrong.

key word: minimum. and if you haven't taken more than 28% of your health pool in damage over the last 5 seconds, then you probably don't even need the heal.

[Atrea]

This. 1 Avoidance, 1 stam for basics. Gem Stam/Parry dodge or mastery. Straight stam is bad. Very, very bad.

Blanket statements are bad. Very, very bad.

The simple fact of the matter is, effective health - derived from stamina and armor - is still the strongest method of tank survival.
While dodge and parry are stats that are wonderful to have on your gear, gemming for them produces such mediocre results, that it is often detrimental to do so.

On the other hand, Mastery, at least insofar as Warriors and Paladins goes, is a very useful stat. It is, is in essence, block rating that is not affected by diminishing returns, and scales far better than dodge or parry. Reforging dodge or parry often results in a net gain of avoidance.

The reason effective health and mastery are more efficient mitigation methods, is because it makes your incoming damage predictable. Spiky tank damage often leaves healers overhealing, or even underhealing.

If a healer knows you will take approximately 30000 damage - which is 1/6th of your health pool - every 2 seconds or so, with an occasional stop here or there, they can respond accordingly.

However, if you are taking 40000 damage - which is 1/3 of your (substantially lower) health pool - every 4 seconds or so, with a pause at random intervals - but not always, it becomes very frustrating to heal effectively. The damage sustained is not only an overall greater amount - remember, the second part of Effective Health is armor - but it is erratic, and it basically introduces RNG into an equation with far more variables than people care to admit.

Furthermore, in almost no case, is it a simple tank & spank, physical damage fight.
The majority of bosses so far utilize a fair percentage - I would say it varies from 100% to 25% - magical damage.
There are stuns, movement, etc - all of which remove any dodge or parry (or block for that matter) from the fight.
An extra buffer of 20000 HP can often make the difference between life or death.

[Morphemus]

Blanket statements are bad. Very, very bad.

The simple fact of the matter is, effective health - derived from stamina and armor - is still the strongest method of tank survival.
While dodge and parry are stats that are wonderful to have on your gear, gemming for them produces such mediocre results, that it is often detrimental to do so.

On the other hand, Mastery, at least insofar as Warriors and Paladins goes, is a very useful stat. It is, is in essence, block rating that is not affected by diminishing returns, and scales far better than dodge or parry. Reforging dodge or parry often results in a net gain of avoidance.

The reason effective health and mastery are more efficient mitigation methods, is because it makes your incoming damage predictable. Spiky tank damage often leaves healers overhealing, or even underhealing.

If a healer knows you will take approximately 30000 damage - which is 1/6th of your health pool - every 2 seconds or so, with an occasional stop here or there, they can respond accordingly.

However, if you are taking 40000 damage - which is 1/3 of your (substantially lower) health pool - every 4 seconds or so, with a pause at random intervals - but not always, it becomes very frustrating to heal effectively. The damage sustained is not only an overall greater amount - remember, the second part of Effective Health is armor - but it is erratic, and it basically introduces RNG into an equation with far more variables than people care to admit.

Furthermore, in almost no case, is it a simple tank & spank, physical damage fight.
The majority of bosses so far utilize a fair percentage - I would say it varies from 100% to 25% - magical damage.
There are stuns, movement, etc - all of which remove any dodge or parry (or block for that matter) from the fight.
An extra buffer of 20000 HP can often make the difference between life or death.

So you are wanting to get into the perpetual make the healers heal you more versus potentially avoiding that hit and saving their mana allowing them to heal you longer debate?

More stam = more heals. Yes it means you can take more damage before you die, however you are mitigating nothing. The difference with Parry/Dodge is that it gives you the ability of missing the attack. And yes, I know magic damage is fairly unavoidable and these stats become useless in this area, but you stated yourself there are still physical attributes out there.

Avoid = less damage = less heals = less strain on your healers.

WotLK this worked because mana bars didnt move even after a 15 min fight. As of now, this is very far from the case. Its not a "lawl mana sponge kgo!" game anymore.