Frost mages and Feral druids.

[Chad warden]

Blizz knows very well how OP Feral druids and Frost mages are, theres no doubt about that. So why exactly do they leave it like this? Well ladies and gentlemen, there is only 1 answer. Because of all the millions of noobs that fotm rerolls. This will increase their "wow life", or prevent them taking breaks from the game because of boredom (obviously because they are starting brand new character all the way from the beginning), and blizz ensures that they continue to pay the monthly fee. Blizzard are ok with millions of people getting very frustrated because of poor balance as long as they make more money. Are you?

Those of us that has to suffer the OPness of ferals and frost mages, will either live with it or stick with PvE or something. VERY few of us actually quits the game because of the unbalance, its a sad fact. By quitting the game because of it you're helping improve the balance of the game. By fotm rerolling you're making it worse, since you are supporting Blizz's strategy. And they have been using this strategy basically since the beginning of WoW. If you have another theory, feel free to tell. Just ask yourself this: Do blizz think ferals and frost mages are balanced?

[Swizzle]

Uhh, how does quitting something help make it better?
"Hey guys, I know this Cleveland Cavaliers team is trying to win a championship, but uhh....yeah, I quit! That should help you guys right? Anyway, off to Miami for me!"

[Chad warden]

Because when blizz sees that people actually ARE qutting because of this, they will balance the game instead of using this strategy.

Im only trying to make people understand blizzards ways. Its for the best of the game quality itself.

[Norther]

Blizz knows very well how OP Feral druids and Frost mages are, theres no doubt about that. So why exactly do they leave it like this? Well ladies and gentlemen, there is only 1 answer. Because of all the millions of noobs that fotm rerolls. This will increase their "wow life", or prevent them taking breaks from the game because of boredom (obviously because they are starting brand new character all the way from the beginning), and blizz ensures that they continue to pay the monthly fee. Blizzard are ok with millions of people getting very frustrated because of poor balance as long as they make more money. Are you?

Those of us that has to suffer the OPness of ferals and frost mages, will either live with it or stick with PvE or something. VERY few of us actually quits the game because of the unbalance, its a sad fact. By quitting the game because of it you're helping improve the balance of the game. By fotm rerolling you're making it worse, since you are supporting Blizz's strategy. And they have been using this strategy basically since the beginning of WoW. If you have another theory, feel free to tell. Just ask yourself this: Do blizz think ferals and frost mages are balanced?

Warhammer Online need more people to support that game, imo it's pvp is more balanced than wow, that game is brilliant for pvp wise.

If you think wow pvp is garbage now, why not trying WAR, worth to try.

[Drogash]

Or it could be because of the hollidays, and the developers spending them with their families.
In addition, I doubt it is simple to balance wow. Making sure it is balanced at
all levels, in PvE and PvP, sounds like a task that shouldn't be done too quickly.
Nerfing them is easy, but making sure they are not nerfed too much, and that the PvP nerfs
dont have a negative impact on PvE performance is hard.

It's easy to say just do this and this, but without some serious theory crafting and testing, knowing the full implications of the change is hard.

[Swizzle]

Because when blizz sees that people actually ARE qutting because of this, they will balance the game instead of using this strategy.

Im only trying to make people understand blizzards ways. Its for the best of the game quality itself.

Yeah, no, you're right. As a company out to make a profit, Blizzard is intentionally pissing off its player base, aka customer base, in some sort of reverse psychological voodoo way to make more money. People quit the game for different reasons: no time, new responsibilities, girlfriends, etc etc so I doubt a mass exodus will somehow bring about the solution to your contrived problem. May I suggest PvP gear? I hear it works wonders.

[Bullettime]

The only time I would consider wow pvp balanced was S3 and S4. For the most part, pvp will NEVER be balanced simply because they try to balance each spec for pvp and pve which is obviously not working. Frost is (excluding some of vanilla) very much a utility tree/spec. The problem comes in where Blizzard wants frost to be competitive pve dps but they retain their pvp tools. If Blizzard lowered the damage capability, frost becomes nonviable in pve AGAIN but if they remove some of the tools, frost becomes nonviable in pvp. The end result is frost mages with more utility/defenses and equal/sometimes greater damage than most other classes.

Ferals are in a similar boat of "damned if we do, damned if we don't." Feral damage right now is put highly on their bleeds via pounce, rake, and rip + absurd mastery. The bleeds hit extremely hard and can't be dispelled but the bleeds are the focus as it gives the class a sort of identity and defining abilities. Now Blizzard is in the boat of where ferals can either have their bleeds nerfed which will have drastic effects in the pve environment and shift more damage over to direct attacks which believe it or not will break pvp even more. Bleeds are relied heavily upon for bonus pressure in pvp and are their highest damage abilities and necessary for movement fights to maintain damage in the pve environment. Blizzard hitting their bleeds enough to be a noticeable damage reduction without compensation would completely break cat pve damage. Now if they nerfed the bleed damage and upped their direct damage to keep them pve viable, now cats can bleed you for less but have incredible burst via berserk and tigers fury to shred people down in no time.

This is the main reason why nerfs have NOT happened like they normally would when something gets this blatantly overpowered. They have to carefully pick the spot in which to nerf, weigh the pros and cons, then surgically change it as any real changes could potentially cripple the spec for pve dps. The classes "utility" and defensive functions are fine as is. The problem is the damage they get with those utilities so Blizzard is being forced into a pick your poison on potentially breaking pvp viablity or cutting damage and cause pve viablity to go.

In the game's past, they would just nerf the class with a sledgehammer then slowly fine tune them back over patches which is awful if you're the class that has to ride that rollercoaster. In Cataclysm though, they're trying to have everything balanced with everything which is going to make nerf/buff reaction times for each individual spec take longer.They have a much higher chance potentially break their new philosophy of you should be able to pve/pvp with the spec flavor of your choice by taking the sledgehammer out for immediate balance. Breaking a spec to balance it in the other aspect completely contradicts that view.

Note: I could make a similar post regarding warriors, dks, and holy paladins which are in similar shapes though less in severity but I'm just pointing at the ones OP labeled.

[Omnus]

Frost mages do lots of damage if you get stuck in a Deep Freeze and have more control than most classes
Feral druids have powerful bleeds
Warriors do a lot of burst damage and have lots of control
DKs can eat healers with the very good Necrotic Strike
Holy Paladins have lots of instant casts, some of which cost no mana, while also having powerful casted heals

Congratulations, you chose to highlight two of the most common "OP" cries of early Cataclysm PvP. Here is your cookie, although you could've received 2 cookies if you had included more than just 2 in this thread.

However, you will receive one additional BONUS cookie for your absolutely hilarious logical fallacy: that the ONE REASON Blizzard allowed some classes to seem OP is to keep customers paying to reroll FotM specs. That's the ONLY possible reason. Only that.

[Swizzle]

The only time I would consider wow pvp balanced was S3 and S4.

This man speaks the truth. Didn't feel like quoting a wall of text, but I do feel that the current state of the game is leading to something like S3-S4, though I pray they never allow double 4-piece ever again. S1 wasn't perfectly balanced, neither was S5. Hell, S9 is barely twelve days old, you HAVE to give this shit time.

[Gravlax]

Because when blizz sees that people actually ARE qutting because of this

At the percentage of players who PVP is increadibly tiny almost all of you could stop playing with out them noticing.

[Bullettime]

Btw, anytime someone says "people are quitting over this!" I laugh a little. If they want to quit, Blizzard is better without their subs as typically those people are the ones who are impatient babies and have very little clue how the system works. More often than not, they go into a BG, get rolled by a class, then bitch about OMG I DIED THIS GAME SUCKS!

Blizzards wants their subs yes and they have caved to incredible QQ in the past, but if a player quits pvp or wow over 2 classes being overpowered when a nerf is definitely coming in the near future, I say good riddance and have fun camping on black ops.

[Flaks]

Frost mages do lots of damage if you get stuck in a Deep Freeze and have more control than most classes
Feral druids have powerful bleeds
Warriors do a lot of burst damage and have lots of control
DKs can eat healers with the very good Necrotic Strike
Holy Paladins have lots of instant casts, some of which cost no mana, while also having powerful casted heals

Congratulations, you chose to highlight two of the most common "OP" cries of early Cataclysm PvP. Here is your cookie, although you could've received 2 cookies if you had included more than just 2 in this thread.

However, you will receive one additional BONUS cookie for your absolutely hilarious logical fallacy: that the ONE REASON Blizzard allowed some classes to seem OP is to keep customers paying to reroll FotM specs. That's the ONLY possible reason. Only that.

I can honestly say that the classes you mentioned ARE NOT above other specs and classes.

Ret with wings does more damage than any of them. Balance druids do A SHIT TON MORE DAMAGE THAN ANYTHING ELSE. Assassination rogue envenom burst blows col smash + ltts + ms and fingers of frost ice lance spam out of the water.

If it really comes down to it burst is just a little insane since most people are JUST reaching 2k resili which means the vast majority of the player base is still rolling 1500 resili or less.

Go against ANY class with more than 2k resili and try blowing them up with ANY of the above classes. Its just not possible.

As a warrior (lol warrior qq) I still think frost mages have WAY too much control but that's the ONLY thing that could even be suggested to be imbalanced right now when it comes to group (real) pvp.

Anyone who says S3 and S4 were more balanced than S8 need to turn off the nostalgia. This pvp season is slowly but surely coming out to be the most balanced patch of wow ever.

[Tandrius]

Getting tired of these threads. As was stated above, both feral and frost are in strange places for pve and pvp nerfs will certainly break them. If you have a constructive way to fix these specs, list it--preferably on the suggestions forum.

Also, while I haven't pvped on my mage I have done it enough on my kitty, and I really think feral is not as faceroll as you seem to think it is. One rake is not going to kill you, and if you let a kitty mangle, rake, and 5 cp rip you, it's very likely you're doing it wrong. Kitty stuns are not that long and energy regen is quite slow atm. I, for one, have been very amused over the last two weeks at all the newly rerolled/respeced kitties who are absolutely horrible b/c it simply isn't a faceroll spec.

I find it much more likely you are losing to good kitties and good frost mages (kiting and control require skill, though again I haven't pvped on my frost mage so I can't speak to this) and comparing them to mediocre players at other classes (possibly but not necessarily yourself--no flame intended here).

I'm not saying pvp balance is perfect, because it's not, but I do think some of the problems are overblown to say the least, and flat nerfs will simply break both specs so that they are once again unplayable--a state they have both been in for a good portion of wow.

[Bullettime]

Anyone who says S3 and S4 were more balanced than S8 need to turn off the nostalgia. This pvp season is slowly but surely coming out to be the most balanced patch of wow ever.

What nostalgia? I don't miss BC by any means other than the better balancing act for pvp. Blizzard trying to make every spec competitive in both pve and pvp has been opening up variety but has been opening floodgates for severe game inbalance as we've been seeing.

S3 and S4, while not having every spec competitive, has had every class with 1 near perfectly balanced spec to compete with others. Those seasons were more about how well you could use your class/spec and less on relying on (as example) bleedbleedbleed lolbearformdance or with your S8 example, spriest, mages (lesser extent,) and for wraths entierty having a healer (especially druid) be able to shrug off 2-3 dpsers and cleave teams dominating by tunneling and trying to global someone.

I salute and respect Blizzard for trying what they are now, but that type of balance can and never will be achieved.

[Swizzle]

Anyone who says S3 and S4 were more balanced than S8 need to turn off the nostalgia. This pvp season is slowly but surely coming out to be the most balanced patch of wow ever.

We're in Season 9 now sir, S8 was the final season in WotLk. The end of S3 was very balanced and S4, up to the point when people got 4-piece T6 from SWP, was also. Don't know many lolburst/cleave teams that dominated then like we had in S8.

[Solial]

OP is a very good player, he got 2700 3v3 rating and then Blizzard reset everyone's matchmaking rating. With this change they also buffed frost mages and feral druids.... they just stuck em on a rocket to the top and now he can't get past 1600 because frost mages and feral druids beat him up. Considering he had 2700 before the value reset he has to be good and we should listen to him. Yeah, he did leave matches before they ended to not lose points, but that is a completely different story. /end sarcasm. As a frost mage and currently sitting at a a 2600 MMR after the change, I find death knights, warriors and feral druids to own me. Death Knight blocks out the heals, warriors get mad Opportunity strike procs (Charge, MS(Pro), White Swing(Proc), Heroic Strike(Proc)... six hits in 1 gcd), and feral druids power shifting my roots. Of course with the DK and Warrior I can pull them behind a box and do a full nova/poly and keep them there for a good 15 seconds unless their healer runs around and let us kill the dps... which works great because that's when we use smoke bomb

[Ica]

While I understand that the "OP-ness" of frost and ferals frustrate you, I feel obliged to ignore your question about their level of balance. and tell you this; This isn't an official WoW forum, all the creative complaining you and others might produce will never be seen by the people that actually could do something..

I suggest you go to the official forums, find one dedicated to pvp, and tell them that they lost one customer because they had the nerve to enjoy their hollidays..

[Flaks]

We're in Season 9 now sir, S8 was the final season in WotLk. The end of S3 was very balanced and S4, up to the point when people got 4-piece T6 from SWP, was also. Don't know many lolburst/cleave teams that dominated then like we had in S8.

I know we're in s9. I was talking about s8 being more balanced than anything ever before.

Do you remember how many elemental shaman or retribution paladins or assassination rogues or arcane mages or (etc. etc.) hit gladiator in s3 and s4?

Fact of the matter is REGARDLESS OF HOW BURSTY S8 ENDED UP (in the latter half of the season just like S3 and S4 were) it was still more balanced than the game had ever been before. Unless of course your idea of balanced is PMR's dominating 3's and warrior/druid and lock/druid dominating 2's (back when it mattered).

Also, Ica, I'm pretty sure Blizzard employees frequent and very likely even post on these forums more than anyone can imagine. Fact of the matter is this website is more sought out than the official WoW forums in terms of proper WoW discussion.

[Deleted]

I've always wondered why blizz doesn't just use "dual skills" aka:
When used against an npc this ability does 5,000 damage and applies a 20 second slow effect.
When used against a player or pet this ability does 3,000 damage and applies a 5 second slow effect

A bit like Faerie Fire lasts less long on players, and Curse of Doom couldn't be used on players.
It'd be so much easier for blizzard to balance pvp and pve if they split the 2 completely, and as long as only numbers are being tuned (aka NOT extra additions for the pve/pvp part of the move only) it won't even confuse people much (outside of the why do I crit so much less in pvp, but resilience does that anyway).

There might be a reason (outside of the extra work) why blizzard isn't doing this though, but I can't see it currently.

[Omnus]

I've always wondered why blizz doesn't just use "dual skills" aka:
When used against an npc this ability does 5,000 damage and applies a 20 second slow effect.
When used against a player or pet this ability does 3,000 damage and applies a 5 second slow effect

A bit like Faerie Fire lasts less long on players, and Curse of Doom couldn't be used on players.
It'd be so much easier for blizzard to balance pvp and pve if they split the 2 completely, and as long as only numbers are being tuned (aka NOT extra additions for the pve/pvp part of the move only) it won't even confuse people much (outside of the why do I crit so much less in pvp, but resilience does that anyway).

There might be a reason (outside of the extra work) why blizzard isn't doing this though, but I can't see it currently.

There have been blue posts about this basically saying they don't want to over complicate gameplay by having 2 versions of almost every spell.