Healing priests kinda screwed on Free epics

[Starcrossedd]

However, every single piece of gear you have should have spirit as it's sub stat. Period.[COLOR="red"]

Think about what you're saying here though. Let's say I actually am finishing my boss fights with around 15%-20% mana left over. You're saying that I shouldn't replace a certain piece of gear with more mastery or haste because it doesn't have any spirit on it? There is a point where you can have too much spirit and it's hindering your healing more than it's helping.

[LatexHealz]

I think the point people are trying to make is if you weren't stacking spirit on every piece of gear and took more crit/haste or crit/mastery or haste/mastery, your tank wouldn't have died in the first place because your heals would be bigger and faster.

That is...unless your tank is a dumbass and stood in a void zone or something. Then you just have a bad tank and no amount of any stat can fix that.

Healing gear has spirit on it for a reason. I could understand maybe not having 1, at most 2 pieces without spirit on it.


No, it's called shit happens in raids, the dps might have missed an interupt.. and the tank took a blow from an ability he shouldn't have.

IYou need the EXTRA resources to recover the raid.


Healing gear has PLENTY of stats on it you can use, it's about which pieces you take that have specific stats on it.

Half the people playing this game see a epic item they can use and think "OH ITS PURPLE I CAN USE IT THAT MEANS ITS GOOD" without even thinking about what stats it has on it besides intellect.

The healing gear is currently designed to be perfectly FINE for healing, theres no need to not have a piece of gear without spirit on it. It's just pointless.

[Mr_Bojangles]

Really? I'm using the Justice Point haste/mastery chest, and the exalted Earthen Ring haste/mastery gloves.

Regen capping is just DUMB.

Wouldn't the regen 'cap' be when you can spam flash heal without ooming like in wotlk? I'm not sure what you are reffering to as a cap here, more regen is never wasted, because it means you can use a stronger heal more often. If you are finishing a fight with 50% mana, you aren't using the right spells.

[Posh]

A healer needs enough mana to get to the end of the fight. In theory if u finish the encounter with say 30% mana left that 30% is a waste. Combat ressing the tank is not the rule and even there you will need hell lot of output to save the plate that is tanking from death.

Nobody is saying: screw spirit. I think it's a very strong stat, specially for holy yet if u end an encounter at 50% mana then i think some of that spirit is not needed. Speaking about the gloves of earthen ring: can you find any better choice for healing before raids? MAYBE the ones from hc stonecore but honestly i dont think so. I understand being afraid of oom but i think you are overkilling the problem.

[LatexHealz]

Yes, because the next week who knows. You could kill the boss still, but something could have gone wrong during the kill and you ended up using more mana then before because someone else made a mistake.

So you ended this fight with less mana. Think if you took away that regen, you might not have had enough mana to finish the fight.

[Starcrossedd]

Yes, because the next week who knows. You could kill the boss still, but something could have gone wrong during the kill and you ended up using more mana then before because someone else made a mistake.

So you ended this fight with less mana. Think if you took away that regen, you might not have had enough mana to finish the fight.

Shadowfiend, mana pot, arcane torrent, or maybe hymn?

[Rä]

Absolutley not, this is the WRONG way to play.


"LOL I HAVE TO USE ALL MY MANA IN EVERY FIGHT LOL SPAM SPAM SPAM"


you NEED extra mana for when shit hits the fan, so you can be ready to heal when something goes wrong.

if you have "JUST ENOUGH" to finish a boss fight, and the tank dies at 10%, then who will you be able to heal?

No one. Your logic is fail sir.

Aparently you don't know what comfortably means. Let me get a definition for you to help your your not so well thought out retort:

[qoute]Definition of COMFORTABLE
1a : affording or enjoying contentment and security <a comfortable income> b : affording or enjoying physical comfort <a comfortable chair> <was too comfortable to move>
2a : free from vexation or doubt <comfortable assumptions> b : free from stress or tension <a comfortable routine>[/quote]

Your arguement is based off of not knowing how to heal or not healing raids as far as i can tell. It may also be from running with tanks that don't know when to use CD's. You assume that "SPAM SPAM SPAM" is the only way to heal when "the shit hits the fan". It's not. Not a single wipe I've had in Cata has been from healers going oom or the tanks dying to not getting healed enough.

Use CD's *properly*, Guardian Spirit would have stopped your 10% wipe if you used it before the tank was about to get gibbed. Also note that the cost of heal is around the same amount of mana that you regen whist casting it and HW:S is even more mana effecient. Even if you do run on fumes; which you shouldn't be at if you're at 10% of the fight to go, you can cast those while you get mana back through Shadow Fiend or just use Hymn of Hope.

I'm looking kinda forward to your "YOUMADBRAH?" responce. Please make another post with no logical thought process behind it. I'm at work and you're makeing my day better.

[dawawe]

let all just go back to BT days. "you heal raid" Ok CoH CoH CoH CoH CoH CoH CoH "OH NOES INNERVATE MEH" CoH CoH CoH CoH

[Starcrossedd]

I'm looking kinda forward to your "YOUMADBRAH?" responce. Please make another post with no logical thought process behind it. I'm at work and you're makeing my day better.

OMG may I sig that? pretty pretty please?

[Kelesti]

If the tank dies at 10% you would be surprised how much that extra mana can help, ive seen DPS DK tank a boss for a couple seconds while the tank got a battle res, and having that extra mana to heal that DK saved the raid...

Cool, you blew a battle rez on a tank while someone in plate blew cooldowns. That's a "couple seconds" at 10% which all the regen in the world won't stop that Death Knight from getting crit and screwing your raid over

I never said "stack spirit" but think about it, regen = output.

And output = regen. Harder ticking Renew, harder/faster hitting Heal means that you can squeeze one out instead of a Greater from time to time. That right there is automatically passive regen, even though it doesn't show up on your character sheets. But... you pull this facepalm worthy argument:

Currently in 10 mans[...]and im top on meters on boss fights, and am not going oom.

'kay.

You don't need to stack intel/haste to get higher output. Regen allows a more free selection of casting, without worry of how much mana you may use on a single cast.

And higher Intellect/Haste allows for more usage of your "free" spells, allowing you to passively store the mana you would've spent otherwise when you need to.

When shit hits the fan, and you have to start throwing out a lot of flash heals/poh.. you will be thrilled you had the regen.

That's called "comfort zone". And there is such a thing as overdoing it.

I am not saying stack nothing BUT spirit. However, every single piece of gear you have should have spirit as it's sub stat. Period.

That goes for trinkets too. Oh wait!

Because most of the time I am not even assigned to tank healing, shit happens in raids. If something went wrong and one of the tank healers ran oom, or was in the middle of avoiding an ability and caused the tank to die, then the other healers need the mana to back the raid up during that time.

So you stack on regen to make up for your other healers failures, and brag about being top of the meters because you don't tank heal?

No offence, dawawe, but fights aren't like WoTLK were "Do the same thing for 5 minutes" In fact, they are opposite. They require A LOT of moving around/taunting/interupting.

No offense, Latex, but this makes your entire "guide" look bad.

THINGS GO WRONG IN RAIDS, why would you NOT want extra resources to recover?

Because recovery during those "oh shit" moments has to be now, it has to be fast, and strong. You don't need to hold a 5-person ten man for 8 minutes as you bleed people out one by one. You just need to hold them out long enough to stabilize it, or call the wipe.

How much that is, is called a "comfort zone". People use this. The average top end priest isn't expecting to actually end a fight at 3% mana, contrary to what theorycrafters say. But there is such a thing as "too much". And you're not seeing that.

[LatexHealz]

A healer needs enough mana to get to the end of the fight. In theory if u finish the encounter with say 30% mana left that 30% is a waste. Combat ressing the tank is not the rule and even there you will need hell lot of output to save the plate that is tanking from death.

Nobody is saying: screw spirit. I think it's a very strong stat, specially for holy yet if u end an encounter at 50% mana then i think some of that spirit is not needed. Speaking about the gloves of earthen ring: can you find any better choice for healing before raids? MAYBE the ones from hc stonecore but honestly i dont think so. I understand being afraid of oom but i think you are overkilling the problem.

Wrong, a healer needs enough mana to get through a fight and be able to recover if needed. If you end a fight with 0% mana it can mean two things.

You either healed WAY too much and had high over healing.

OR

Something went wrong and you needed to use more mana then normal to recover.


Again, i never said "spirit cap" or "Stack spirit" don't put words in my mouth.


Healing gear has spirit on it for a reason because it is designed for a healer to always have enough regen for any situation. There is NOTHING wrong with having extra regen at the end of a fight.

If you honestly think having an extra .50% haste or 100 spell power is going to save a tank from dying, or a dps from dying. You are absolutley mistaken.

[Mr_Bojangles]

Think about what you're saying here though. Let's say I actually am finishing my boss fights with around 15%-20% mana left over. You're saying that I shouldn't replace a certain piece of gear with more mastery or haste because it doesn't have any spirit on it? There is a point where you can have too much spirit and it's hindering your healing more than it's helping.

I'm saying if you're finishing with 20%, you should have flash healed more.

[Kelesti]

Wouldn't the regen 'cap' be when you can spam flash heal without ooming like in wotlk? I'm not sure what you are reffering to as a cap here, more regen is never wasted, because it means you can use a stronger heal more often. If you are finishing a fight with 50% mana, you aren't using the right spells.

It's a softcap, really. More regen means you can use a stronger heal more often. Or, if you back off the regen, you can have all your spells a little better and not need your stronger heals as much, which counts as a form of passive regen on its own.

[Deleted]

In these new raids I'm constantly considering % of mana i'm on in relation to % of bosses health, and using this to heal more often/bigger heals/at lower health defecits or vice versa ... more spirit gives me more time in this more enjoyable comfortable zone and less time holding back so i dont fall too far behind im mana. E.g if bosses on 50% , compared to 80% mana i would start throwing out all kinds of flash heals and renews etc. just cos i can ... whereas i will generally stick to the most mana efficient spells if it were the other way around.

So i like it on every piece, even though it might not technically be 100% necessary it brings a more enjoyable healing playstyle through giving me more options.

[LatexHealz]

Cool, you blew a battle rez on a tank while someone in plate blew cooldowns. That's a "couple seconds" at 10% which all the regen in the world won't stop that Death Knight from getting crit and screwing your raid over

And output = regen. Harder ticking Renew, harder/faster hitting Heal means that you can squeeze one out instead of a Greater from time to time. That right there is automatically passive regen, even though it doesn't show up on your character sheets. But... you pull this facepalm worthy argument:'kay.

And higher Intellect/Haste allows for more usage of your "free" spells, allowing you to passively store the mana you would've spent otherwise when you need to.

That's called "comfort zone". And there is such a thing as overdoing it.

That goes for trinkets too. Oh wait!

So you stack on regen to make up for your other healers failures, and brag about being top of the meters because you don't tank heal?

No offense, Latex, but this makes your entire "guide" look bad.

Because recovery during those "oh shit" moments has to be now, it has to be fast, and strong. You don't need to hold a 5-person ten man for 8 minutes as you bleed people out one by one. You just need to hold them out long enough to stabilize it, or call the wipe.

How much that is, is called a "comfort zone". People use this. The average top end priest isn't expecting to actually end a fight at 3% mana, contrary to what theorycrafters say. But there is such a thing as "too much". And you're not seeing that.

Kel the more you post, the more I am convinced you have NO IDEA what you are talking about. You throw out a lot of "lol you are wrong" yet you cannot back it up half the time with legit responses.

You throw out a ton of "ideas" yet cannot back them up in any situations.


Where in my post, did i even BRING UP trinkets? Another point of you throwing out useless "your wrong" statements.


Bragging? No, I am saying that in raids, sometimes healers WILL slack, or might not have done as well on a fight as normal. Yes, a lot of times other healers WILL have to pick up for others slack. It just happens in raiding, sorry to dissapoint you.



I actually had a DK DPS hold aggro on atramedes because our tank had too high sound and got owned right before the next ground phase. Only for a few seconds, but long enough to get the tank back up and healed. The same attempt we downed him. Again, back to your "your wrong" but cannot back it up.

The DK used cooldowns to avoid as much damage as possible, and the healers kept him up.

---------- Post added 2010-12-26 at 09:22 PM ----------

In these new raids I'm constantly considering % of mana i'm on in relation to % of bosses health, and using this to heal more often/bigger heals/at lower health defecits or vice versa ... more spirit gives me more time in this more enjoyable comfortable zone and less time holding back so i dont fall too far behind im mana. E.g if bosses on 50% , compared to 80% mana i would start throwing out all kinds of flash heals and renews etc. just cos i can ... whereas i will generally stick to the most mana efficient spells if it were the other way around.

So i like it on every piece, even though it might not technically be 100% necessary it brings a more enjoyable healing playstyle through giving me more options.

This exactly, someone who understand real raiding.

[Rä]

OMG may I sig that? pretty pretty please?

By all means please do

[LatexHealz]

To add to kels witty response.


yes, 100 extra spell power is going to make renew tick SO much harder that the tank will just be invincible and not die. See what I did there?

[LatexHealz]

Kel, how does saying that fights require a lot more coordination now then in WoTLK make my guide look bad?


How cute of a moderator to come on forums to troll people.

WoTLK content was not difficult, in fact it was boring. Spam heal blah blah blah spam heal blah blah, tank this, heal that, dps this, kill that.

Boring.

Cata is back to where you have to think on your toes, and be ready for anything. Obviously you didn't raid pre wrath.

[Starcrossedd]

To add to kels witty response.


yes, 100 extra spell power is going to make renew tick SO much harder that the tank will just be invincible and not die. See what I did there?

Over time, it'll do much more help having that renew tick for more than having an overabundance of mana at the end of every boss fight.

[LatexHealz]

Overtime, it will do at best... 1k more healing. People have 100k health pools now, in fact.. way more then that.

100 spell power on a renew only increases its healing by like.. maybe 50? I don't know exactly but i know it's not enough to be worthwhile to worry about renew. I wont say anymore about renew, because kel knows how I feel about it.


In fact, I just tried this in game to see how much it would increase.


added 300 spell power by switching a trinket.

Increases renews tick by, oh look. 50