Rocket boots + raid boss = not happy fun times

[Sanisbad]

I'm pretty certain they prevented the rocketboots and other engineering items from failing in raid combat in wotlk (thus why you dont recall them failing much), for the purposes of not having a raid wipe due to engineering rng.

With that in mind, then either it's failure is a bug or related to the fact that it's an enchant designed for lvl 80 and not 85. That is, chance to occur might push above the 0% in raid combat for every level above teh enchant level the player is to encourage people to use up to date enchants.

(Edit: or of course they had a change in policy regarding the issue)

The reason I would believe its intentional and not about your points is because of how they treated arena with rocket boots. It was banned and made unusable completely because of the greatly inflated advantage it gave PVPers with engineering over PVPers with other professions.

[Alienganja]

This is no longer about rocket boots, now its about how engineering is the only goddamn profession with built in failure.

IF YOU HATE IT SO MUCH STOP GOING ENGINEER. Jesus christ you guys bitch about every goddamn little thing like Blizzard needs to turn around, pat you on the back, and say "it's ok, we fucked up, not you".

It freaking happens.

Stop going engineer if you're not cool with RNG.

and to the people pointing out this game still has a lot of RNG ur right...I'm not arguing it doesn't. My main beef with OP is him not quite understanding the full mechanics of his profession and then bitching about it when he got burned.

AGAIN, IT HAPPENS.

We don't need paragraphs of gripe about how you nitro boosted out of a fire, but then the boss spawned adds, but you didn't realize that your ability did some damage when you stopped boosting, and it pulled the adds, which killed you, and then some healers, and the raid wiped.

Stupid RNG.

[CT001]

I think the ability to fail on many of the engineering items is silly. What's the point of boots if you're not supposed to use em? I'm ok with flavor items acting funny, but something like boots, or parachutes need to work 100% of the time.

[rabbimojo]

The reason I would believe its intentional and not about your points is because of how they treated arena with rocket boots. It was banned and made unusable completely because of the greatly inflated advantage it gave PVPers with engineering over PVPers with other professions.

Engineering does not provide a greatly inflated advantage in PvE, however. It was more or less balanced for most of LK, and only caught up towards the end, and even then primarily because of the bombs.

They didn't allow boots in arena in LK either, but the failure chance was absent in dungeons/raids. The policy on arena usage has not changed, the policy on dungeons/raids seems to have.

[Gnomity]

First off, you clearly went Engineer (the majority of you engineers out there) because you thought it would give you an advantage better than that of other professions. So, in order to bring it down to the level of other profs, your OP prof has a chance to utterly fail and possibly kill you. I say possibly in bold, because if you have your engineering parachute cloak up, you can still save yourself, YAY! its not guaranteed to kill you if it fails - just if it fails when you've already wasted another engineering item on something else.

On another note:

You dont unearth cursed archealogy fragments that cause ghosts to appear and kill you

That would be awesome. I would lol if they added that.

[pickley]

This is no longer about rocket boots, now its about how engineering is the only goddamn profession with built in failure.

IF YOU HATE IT SO MUCH STOP GOING ENGINEER. Jesus christ you guys bitch about every goddamn little thing like Blizzard needs to turn around, pat you on the back, and say "it's ok, we fucked up, not you".

It freaking happens.

Stop going engineer if you're not cool with RNG.

and to the people pointing out this game still has a lot of RNG ur right...I'm not arguing it doesn't. My main beef with OP is him not quite understanding the full mechanics of his profession and then bitching about it when he got burned.

AGAIN, IT HAPPENS.

We don't need paragraphs of gripe about how you nitro boosted out of a fire, but then the boss spawned adds, but you didn't realize that your ability did some damage when you stopped boosting, and it pulled the adds, which killed you, and then some healers, and the raid wiped.

Stupid RNG.

RNG is fine, however like i said. Why should Engineering be the only proffesion penalised for their helpfull raid enchants?

[rabbimojo]

This is no longer about rocket boots, now its about how engineering is the only goddamn profession with built in failure.

IF YOU HATE IT SO MUCH STOP GOING ENGINEER. Jesus christ you guys bitch about every goddamn little thing like Blizzard needs to turn around, pat you on the back, and say "it's ok, we fucked up, not you".[...]

It's a valid complaint. Engineering did not have a failure chance in dungeons/raids in LK. That it now has that RNG is a major change to a profession with (so far) no justification from Blue. The value of the profession even without failures is still under par for a crafting prof. Include the failure rate and it's borderline unusable in raiding.

Engineering is not especially cheap to level, so having Blizz switch the failure chance back on is certainly reason to gripe.

How about I caps you back? IF YOU HATE PEOPLE COMPLAINING ABOUT VALID THINGS SO MUCH STOP OPENING THREADS WITH SUBJECT LINES MAKING IT CLEAR THEY WILL CONTAIN COMPLAINTS.

Again, Engineering has not been like this for around 2 years.

[Shinshiva]

Um.... You are an engineer. Every time you use something it has a chance to fail. It failed. Calm down and stop crying.

[rabbimojo]

That's not really a valid argument seeing as how you're comparing two totally different things. Engineering is supposed to have a probability of failing. All Classes HAVE to be balanced. So yes, the argument "you chose to be an Engineer" is completely valid.

What exactly did you expect when trying to use a Northrend Tinker when raiding in Cataclysm? The lower quality of something you use on a higher leveled item makes it fail more.

Engineering has not had a chance of failure in dungeons/raids for some time. It wasn't necessary to have the failure to balance it in LK.
Moreover, is there somewhere in game stating that using lower level tinkers on higher level items increases failure probability? I'm not aware of any such thing, nor do I think, if it's true, that's generally known. Is it true, and how do you know?

---------- Post added 2010-12-27 at 01:58 PM ----------

First off, you clearly went Engineer (the majority of you engineers out there) because you thought it would give you an advantage better than that of other professions. So, in order to bring it down to the level of other profs, your OP prof has a chance to utterly fail and possibly kill you. I say possibly in bold, because if you have your engineering parachute cloak up, you can still save yourself, YAY! its not guaranteed to kill you if it fails - just if it fails when you've already wasted another engineering item on something else.
[...]

All the discussion I've seen comparing engineering to the other crafting profs points to engineering, without failure chance, being the weakest craft profession (only ahead of the gathers). Adding in the failure chance drops its average effectiveness even further. E.g., suppose the tank shield effect absorbs 20k damage. 20% of the time it fails and instead deals the damage to you. (This isn't exactly how the failure works, but bear with me). That means that 20% of the time, not only does it not activate (lowering effectiveness to 80% of what it would be), but it deals the damage to you instead (lowering effectiveness to 60%).

Engineering is not OP, or even equivalently powerful at the moment, by all accounts I've seen. If you have evidence suggesting otherwise, please share.

[Shinshiva]

It's a valid complaint. Engineering did not have a failure chance in dungeons/raids in LK. That it now has that RNG is a major change to a profession with (so far) no justification from Blue. The value of the profession even without failures is still under par for a crafting prof. Include the failure rate and it's borderline unusable in raiding.

Engineering is not especially cheap to level, so having Blizz switch the failure chance back on is certainly reason to gripe.

How about I caps you back? IF YOU HATE PEOPLE COMPLAINING ABOUT VALID THINGS SO MUCH STOP OPENING THREADS WITH SUBJECT LINES MAKING IT CLEAR THEY WILL CONTAIN COMPLAINTS.

Again, Engineering has not been like this for around 2 years.

Using level 80 items at 85 increases the chance that it will not work. Please get that small and simple fact through your head. And it DID have a chance to fail, it just didn't as much because...... You were level 80 using level 80 items.

[grimkiller]

Engineering just needs pattern updates for cata.
We don't have any fun, new things.
Rocket boots is one of the fun, nice-to-have things that's not necessary of course, but not completely worthless either.
They removed the +crit modifier, so now it's nothing more than a small boost on a long CD.
Plus, you can't use your stun belt alongside it anymore since they occupy the same slot.
Because of this, it needs some love in teh form of a Cata-level rocket boot(or belt?)-type pattern.

Oh, and rocket boots did fail in WOTLK.
It was just a low chance.
I had a couple times when I would get the cooking daily, then try to rocket boot outside only to smash my head against the inn's ceiling.

[rabbimojo]

Using level 80 items at 85 increases the chance that it will not work. Please get that small and simple fact through your head. And it DID have a chance to fail, it just didn't as much because...... You were level 80 using level 80 items.

If it had to chance to fail in raids/dungeons, it was so low that I didn't see it through 4 tiers of regular raiding, and hundreds, maybe thousands, of heroics.

Don't act like I'm not "getting something through my head". Provide some evidence.
There are two bits of evidence I'm familiar with that provide some support to your claim:
1) Several enchants have a reduced effect above the level they were designed for. Typically, this change is labeled right in the effect, so for Crusader we see "Has a reduced effect for players above level 60."
2) Certain engineering items have a similar issue, and specifically state it. So, the Gnomish Mind Control Cap says "Increased chance of failure when used against targets over level 60."

Items which can fail usually allude to it in the tooltip. The army knife says "attempt": "Use: A grand master engineer can overload the knife's battery to attempt to shock a dead ally back to life. Cannot be used in combat."

Rocket boots read: "Permanently attaches overpowered nitro boosts to your belt, allowing you to greatly increase run speed for 5 sec. The nitro boosts can only be activated every 3 minutes and require an Engineering skill of at least 400."

Where in there do you read that it has a failure chance? Where does it say anything about your chance of failure increasing at higher levels?
*Edit: Of course, they do fail even without it in the tooltip, but the point is that we don't have information about how often, when, why, etc. I'm just asking for you to support your claim that it's because we're higher-level.

---------- Post added 2010-12-27 at 02:11 PM ----------

Oh, and rocket boots did fail in WOTLK.
It was just a low chance.
I had a couple times when I would get the cooking daily, then try to rocket boot outside only to smash my head against the inn's ceiling.

They failed plenty outside of dungeons/raids. In them? Not so much.

[skrump]

you know I like the fail rate on engineering items but I don't like the idea of rng wiping my raid

The solution is simple
Engineering items that can cause loss of control of your character should not be usable inside instances

[Bromance42]

Ok ok wow lots of anger face in this thread...

First off, I am aware that engineering tinkers can fail, but when i raided in WOTLK, they did not fail in a raid environment, not one time.

Second, it is really no concern why I used to boots, if a herbalist used his lifeblood because they stood in the fire too long and the plant came up and ate him they would be pretty upset (although i can imagine the funny animation, think mario 64). The point I was trying to make was that why should engineers have to risk wiping a raid using their profession while other profession users (who have better bonuses) have no risk at all.

Third, I am aware this tinker is a level 80 tinker but currently there is no level 85 rocket boot tinker (or belt for that matter).

Usually greater risk warrants a greater reward, but currently in the state engineering is in the risk does not equal the reward. I know many of you will say "well don't be an engineer then", but why? In WOTLK tinkers did not fail in raids, why should I have to powerlevel another profession? It does not make sense and I am sure many others will agree with me.

[Radux]

Ok. This exact thread has popped up far too much in the past week or two. It just turns into QQ about rerolling professions or Blizzard not being fair to Engineers. I'm just going to close this.