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  1. #201
    Herald of the Titans Dannyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimtor View Post
    I was just wondering, my guild master, also a protection warrior told me I have to get my expertise capped.
    That makes little to no sense in the current state of the game. Before Cataclysm released, mobs (especially dragons) would utilize something called parry-hasting that could easily gimp your tank and it occurred when the boss parried the tank's hit. In a world where warrior tanks used fast weapons, this could be a very big concern but on the side of good news, the feature is no longer present in raid bosses. This means that expertise serves only as a threat stat.

    Mind you, it is the best threat stat, but you shouldn't have much of a problem if you play properly. I have expertise 3 atm and it's not a big issue. So yes, you're right that you should focus on survival stats and reforge out as many threat stats as possible.

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  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimtor View Post
    Thanks for your advice aswell, I crafted the shield right away and reforged some of that Hit into expertise.
    I was just wondering, my guild master, also a protection warrior told me I have to get my expertise capped. It's at 11 atm (14 if I eat expertise food) but I thought the general idea was that this expansion its more important to focus on the survival stats and neglect the hit/expertise stats.
    your opinion?
    Allow me to double what Dannyl said; you should not need expertise. It only serves you as increasing your single target dps/tps which we all can agree is a complete non-issue. I've raided with as close to 0 hit and expertise ratings as possible with no problems what-so-ever. I always reforge out of both, because I never need either. Tell your GM to do the same.

    By completely avoiding hit and expertise you will save several hundred rating points. Capping hit and expertise is roughly the same as 15% block and critical block. Yup, it's such a huge differance. Later on in Cataclysm we may go cap our offensive stats for the convenience, since the impact will be percetually less than what it is right now, but let's not think about that right now.

  3. #203
    Just curious really, theres two types of warriors... the stamina based one, and the mastery based one. Which one is better?

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by dallarn View Post
    Just curious really, theres two types of warriors... the stamina based one, and the mastery based one. Which one is better?
    The mastery warrior will suffer less damage and need less healing than the stamina warrior.
    The stamina warrior will safely be able to go without healing for longer periods of time without dying than the mastery warrior, altough not for long and only in the worst case scenario where blocks refused to occur.

    I believe the former to be the stronger, since tanks deaths usually only occur when healers run out of mana or screwed raid healing up. Once the mastery warrior hits 102,4% avoidances and pushes normal hits off the attack table, his approach will definately be superior in almonst any situation compared to the stamina warrior.
    Last edited by Mest; 2011-02-21 at 12:20 PM.

  5. #205
    i've seen several highend guild with warriors that focus on stamina gear such Twilight dragonscale cloak, i really just wanted to be sure that mastery is still the way to go... im sitting as a full epic warrior with 155k hp, and 54,38% block chance atm. It just feels abit sad that most other tanks got 180k+

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by dallarn View Post
    i've seen several highend guild with warriors that focus on stamina gear such Twilight dragonscale cloak, i really just wanted to be sure that mastery is still the way to go... im sitting as a full epic warrior with 155k hp, and 54,38% block chance atm. It just feels abit sad that most other tanks got 180k+
    And what exactly does that extra health do to them? It doesn't make them take less damage from melee swings, it doesn't make them more mana efficient to heal... The additional health is just there without actually doing anything.*

    It allows them to survive longer without heals, but even so, block does that better. Problem is - as long as there's even 1% risk you're struck be a melee hit - block isn't as reliable. But the additional block you have will make you block more often. You will need less heals and lesser heals. Heck, on some encounters, I'm healed with nothing but Beacon of Light and other passive sources.

    * Don't get me wrong, stamina is a great stat, but it's not the stat I want to push the hardest.

  7. #207
    Herald of the Titans Dannyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dallarn View Post
    i've seen several highend guild with warriors that focus on stamina gear such Twilight dragonscale cloak, i really just wanted to be sure that mastery is still the way to go... im sitting as a full epic warrior with 155k hp, and 54,38% block chance atm. It just feels abit sad that most other tanks got 180k+
    Yeah, I've said it before, don't depend too much on stalking the armory. It isn't a bad reference, especially if you are still learning what's good and how to gear up, spec, etc. However, don't ever take anything from those things at face value and never mimic, or take an armory for truth, unless you can rationally explain why it's a good choice to make. I would challenge any of those "high end tanks" (I still don't like that term) to show me how stamina is superior to other stats.

    Like Iyona said, it's not a bad stat, but having too much of it, will only limit your character. 150k ub is easily enough to make it through normal mode encounters and never wipe because of your HPs, it's just the way of it. So far, none has convinced me and I've had that conversation quite a few times.

    Armory | What we do in life, it echoes in eternity.
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  8. #208
    Really the best way to tell is to get 2 of each piece of gear you got, create one with nothing but stamina stacking, and the other with the current trend of mastery, parry and dodge balacing. Wear your mastery set for a bit, switch to stamina mid raid then ask your healers which is best.

    As for the expertise thing. I have none, and only 3% hit. With the exception of the opening 10seconds of a fight, dps never catch me.
    Last edited by mR BuLL SaX; 2011-02-22 at 02:40 PM. Reason: Added the missing emote :)

  9. #209
    Herald of the Titans Dannyl's Avatar
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    You could do that, if you felt that enterprising but for one, I really don't see the logic in that test. At least without someone actually explaining to me how high health is better with some rational proof of concept. Secondly, I wouldn't ask my healers, as I've long since learned that healers are probably the worst source of such information. I would rather trust combatlogs and parsers.

    Armory | What we do in life, it echoes in eternity.
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  10. #210
    There is no real logic in that test, it was a tongue in check test but for some reason my emote was removed o_0....

  11. #211
    Herald of the Titans Dannyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mR BuLL SaX View Post
    There is no real logic in that test, it was a tongue in check test but for some reason my emote was removed o_0....
    Ohh... kk, my apologies then

    Armory | What we do in life, it echoes in eternity.
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  12. #212
    Meh, I liked that test!

    I like to calculate "how much healing is needed to keep me alive?" and see what the chance is to die.

    So mastery all the way for me it is .

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Dannyl View Post
    Ohh... kk, my apologies then
    Np mate, Took no offence.

  14. #214
    Mechagnome Maximus4004's Avatar
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    Can you guys do me a favor and take a look at my character and verify I'm not screwing things up to bad .

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...A2ximus/simple

    I realize I need a new weapon(waiting for Maloriak to drop my mace) but also running Heroic Stone Core daily for Elementium Fang.
    Also running Stone Core for Leaden Dispair...just not quite lucky enough to see...well either.. lol

    Any other tips/tricks I'd appreciate threat seems to be fine for me right now.

    At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

  15. #215
    It's looking overall fine, although I'd get rid of a lot of excessive stamina if I were you. You could/should use Mastery for pures and look for ways to increase your mastery as often as possible. I'd also suggest you to farm Baradin's Wardens reputation asap; their trinket is superb. Overall BiS and almost mandatory for a few select encounters.

    Stamina isn't bad, but you very rarely die because of lack of it. If you die in today's rads, it's usually because your healers ran oom. Mastery and avoidances will do more for you than stamina.

  16. #216
    Mechagnome Maximus4004's Avatar
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    So drop the pure stam stuff for pure mastery? Errr...Mastery/Stam for pure Mastery.
    Last edited by Maximus4004; 2011-02-25 at 03:03 PM.

    At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

  17. #217
    When I gear, enchant and gem I reason Mastery > Stamina > 30% more parry rating than dodge rating > everything else. As of such, the gems I'd recommend are mastery pures using mastery/stam and mastery/parry (fractured, puissant, fine) to pick up socket bonuses. All our secondary stats are about as strong, I believe most socket bonuses are worth picking up.

    With trinkets, I usually pick up trinkets with strong Use-effects. I usually wear the Mirror of Broken Images for every encounter, then swapping between the crab, the finger and the vial depending on encounter.

  18. #218
    Patch 4.1, guys.

    Rallying Cry - the raidwide defensive CD we've always needed/never had.
    Pummel - two second reduction on our baseline interrupt, hello reliable interrupts and less damage taken in dungeons.
    Shield Mastery - will now allow Shield Block to reduce magical damage, possibly in the 10-20% range?

    I'm hyped.

  19. #219
    Anyone here pushing full heroic raiding gear, really curious what stats you would be able to get.
    In full 359 gear im sitting at 12.35% dodge 15.05% parry, and 57.59% block, this is with battleshout activated no other buffs. Got 24.11 mastery yielding 36% critblock.
    This is about 90% avoidance. With Hold the Line and Shield Block up my Blockrate is ~81% and critblock at 60% (once again its unbuffed).

    Having full 372 gear should get some pretty sick stats, and prolly be avoidance capped in a raiding envoirment. When this happens the Crit Block gained from shield block will be 25% correct? Providing I'd assume around 80-90% critblock, in other words your incoming damage while having Shield Block upp will either be zero, or very likely 60% reduced.
    With this in mind and thinking about next raiding tier, I can't help to wonder when the mastery nerf is coming.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by superking View Post
    Anyone here pushing full heroic raiding gear, really curious what stats you would be able to get.
    In full 359 gear im sitting at 12.35% dodge 15.05% parry, and 57.59% block, this is with battleshout activated no other buffs. Got 24.11 mastery yielding 36% critblock.
    This is about 90% avoidance. With Hold the Line and Shield Block up my Blockrate is ~81% and critblock at 60% (once again its unbuffed).

    Having full 372 gear should get some pretty sick stats, and prolly be avoidance capped in a raiding envoirment. When this happens the Crit Block gained from shield block will be 25% correct? Providing I'd assume around 80-90% critblock, in other words your incoming damage while having Shield Block upp will either be zero, or very likely 60% reduced.
    With this in mind and thinking about next raiding tier, I can't help to wonder when the mastery nerf is coming.
    No, full 372 will not render us unhittable. It'll be close (98%+) if we push mastery over anything else, but not quite all the way.

    We will not have such huge amounts of critical block, and I doubt mastery will be nerfed. Possibly some, but it shouldn't be anything huge. After all, it's value is significantly reduced once unhittable and makes gearing rather interesting.

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