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  1. #21
    Parry triggers "Hold The Line", not Dodge. That makes Parry higher priority than Dodge.

    I have to lend my support to Impending Victory, especially combined with the glyph of victory rush. I'm sure that heal has saved me before. I certainly have been saved by the normal victory rush with that glyph.

    Also, if you have Blood and Thunder, you can refresh Rend on a single target with thunder clap. It's free damage, and it keeps TC up.

  2. #22

    nice guide

    Nice guide. if I may say so there is one part I've been missing: Victory Rush!
    It's a great upkeeper in 5man heroics trash or fights with adds, saves lives, wipes, healer's mana, etc.
    It's no longer just a tool for DPS specs but a very usefull skill for 5man dungeons or questing even.
    20% heal is always nice to have

  3. #23
    Pit Lord Dannyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mortisia View Post
    It's quite nice, but don't really think that you need shield specialization for raiding. I've tanked everything safe for Nefarian and have yet to use spell reflect on bosses. And you don't really lack rage on boss fights. Good for 5 man heroics though.
    Agreed, though shield specialization also grants you rage from blocking. I haven't tried tanking without it but I assume, from the sheer number of blocks I get per fight, that much of my rage comes from having this talent. So I would still be careful about removing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Undyingchaos View Post
    My only problem with this guide is impending victory, it has saved my ass more then once and when its so late in the fight you should have such a agro gain that you can spam devastate and have it keep procing.
    I would say the spec he posted on the guide is a nice, balanced spec that works for both 5-mans and raid content. There is a lot of flavor talents in the current talent trees, which actually includes impending victory. I like it as well, but I wouldn't not call it mandatory.

    I saw this guide before and was very impressed tbh. It is a very good, basic guide for warrior tanks who are current starting out and learning the ropes that covers all the necessary bits. It's clean and easy to understand. Imo, any players who visits the forum for basic questions (which we all see repeated everyday) should have a look at this first, as it will answer most of them.

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  4. #24
    HTL is ofc better if we parry, but if i remember parry have bigger Diminishing Returns vs dodge.
    WTB avoidance calc

  5. #25
    Pit Lord Dannyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golemstw View Post
    HTL is ofc better if we parry, but if i remember parry have bigger Diminishing Returns vs dodge.
    WTB avoidance calc
    Not anymore, they were equalized in Cata. The discussion of stacking parry over dodge due to Hold the Line talent is not quite finished yet. Personally, I wouldn't go overboard with it. If you get more parry from gear and gem selection, it's fine but I would not let the difference grow too high due to diminishing returns on your parry.

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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Dannyl View Post
    I would say the spec he posted on the guide is a nice, balanced spec that works for both 5-mans and raid content. There is a lot of flavor talents in the current talent trees, which actually includes impending victory. I like it as well, but I wouldn't not call it mandatory.

    I saw this guide before and was very impressed tbh. It is a very good, basic guide for warrior tanks who are current starting out and learning the ropes that covers all the necessary bits. It's clean and easy to understand. Imo, any players who visits the forum for basic questions (which we all see repeated everyday) should have a look at this first, as it will answer most of them.
    I dont doubt that its a good basic spec however i will forever find it odd that something that increases your survivability is not in the basic set up(blood craze being a exception because you work against it)

  7. #27
    Can't agree that sta is prio. This isn't wotlk.

    WOTLK gear for tanks had ALOT of avoidance. CT hasn't.

    SO its wise to stack up some mastery/parry and even dodge : )
    Remember DR.

  8. #28
    Mechagnome The bearer of truths's Avatar
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    I personally don't see BnT as a MUST have.

    I've never had someone pull off me in cata dungeons =p

  9. #29
    Pit Lord Dannyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Undyingchaos View Post
    I dont doubt that its a good basic spec however i will forever find it odd that something that increases your survivability is not in the basic set up(blood craze being a exception because you work against it)
    If the heals weren't RNG and so small, I'd agree with you but even if you spec and glyph for Impending Victory it will not provide more than a rather small survivability increase. While I like the talent and use it myself, I have yet to come across a situation where it would have given me a clear advantage. It certainly won't keep you alive if the healer becomes incapacitated. At best, it provides few small heals to a battalion of casts already directed at you and at worst it doesn't proc and you lose a lot of damage that could potentially allow your raid to beat the enrage timer. The most common result seems to be that when I need them, they either don't proc or they aren't enough to stave off death and when I don't need them, they only constitute for overhealing.

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  10. #30
    Blademaster Pulveriser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iyona View Post
    You treat Vigilance as a mediocre talent barely worth thinking about, but it does keep your Vengeance up at (almost) all times. For one point it may be one of the strongest dps/tps increasing talents we have. Plus the reset of our Taunt CD is invaluable for some encounters.

    Expertise is truly a stronger threat stat than hit, although any tank today will have noticed threat is a complete non-issue. Capping hit should be a priority - especially for a 10-man raid tank - since a missed interrupt will cause a wipe on many of today's encounters.

    I also wonder were you found math proving Rend > Devastate? Remember Devastate has +20% critical strike chance and procs S&B. I try to use Rend if Revenge is on CD and SS has 1,5 seconds left of it's CD, since a proc at this time wouldn't do anything but save me some rage.

    It's also worth mentioning Impending Victory heals for almost 10% of your total health glyphed and talented. It should not be ignored, even if it's only for the last part of an encounter.
    First of all, thanks for all your feedback on the guide. A few points though since Iyona (like usual :P) points out the most controversial portion of my guide.

    I'll stick by my thought that Vigilance is mediocre, I did state that it's situational though. In my experiences thus far in Cata I haven't needed the taunt refresh since (it seems) taunt can not be resisted. Its great for keeping Vengeance up when your not tanking but there are a lot of fights where I'm tanking the entire time and the only one taking direct damage from the boss. You will see however that I do have it in my build, its only one point, and its decent for threat when the situations are right.

    I'll agree on the expertise thing which is why I added this gem:
    Quote Originally Posted by Pulveriser
    Hit is not as good for threat as Expertise, but if you’re required to interrupt a bosses ability, you will need 8% Hit to reach the cap, after the cap however, Hit is useless.
    However the fact remains that expertise is better, for threat.

    Usually in raids you will have the 20% bleed damage, so that adds to Rend, not sure you were considering that, and Devastates damage has been nerfed time and time again. I'll try and post the math later to backup my statement (when I'm not late for work :P)

    Lastly, Impending Victory - I was basing this mostly on myself reading the talent and a discussion about it on Elitist Jerks, its only a chance to proc on Devastate which is an ability pretty far down in our priority, and it only heals for 5% (10% glyphed) and I have yet to find myself in a situation where I find it useful. Also I'm pretty sure it does less damage than your other options on a GCD, and my 25 man raid beat Halfus about 20 seconds after his enrage, so every bit of damage I can squeeze helps out.

  11. #31
    great guide, however MSBT and quarts have fallen out of date now

    I now use Castbars instead of Quartz

    Edit: i dont think i agree on useing Glyph of Resonating Power, i think the others are much more useful.
    Last edited by Frankminimia; 2011-01-05 at 01:48 PM.

  12. #32
    good guide for the old way of thinking when it comes to tanking but it seems very onesided and dosen't talk about the new thinking that is beaing used here are some issue i had with the guide:

    shield specialzation is not manditory for a raid specc(for HCs i say yes it is manditory) good but not manditory

    major and minor glyphs are really what ever and not just the once you say ppl need to pick

    if you look at the the value of per given stat of parry, dodge and mastery getting dodge and parry raiting will mean you take less dmg taken per raiting point mathimatly than block, but block gives you a smoother dmg taken but dose that really matter when you can take 3-5 white swings from the boss without dieing. also an other issue with going dodge and parry raiting is knowing when mastery is better(gotta love that DR)

    in the new school of thougt i have seen beaing used they see stam as a threat stat once you an survive more than 4 hits and therefor a useless stat to help you survive

    singel target rotaion start up you do know that heroic throw resets your swing timer right so take out that what you melee swings and you lose rage(about 25) from not getting that white swing so even more dmg lost and sens you don't have vengience it dose crap dmg it is better atm to just skip it starting up

    if you skip useing heroic throw start with a shout (20 rage) charge in (15 rage) white swing* (25 rage) you end up with 60 rage witch means you can do shield block + shield slam + heroic strike witch in the end will do alot more dmg than a heroic throw and if you have incite you have a higher crit chans

    *=do remeber that rage is normalized so it is this value for you

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Mortisia View Post
    It's quite nice, but don't really think that you need shield specialization for raiding. I've tanked everything safe for Nefarian and have yet to use spell reflect on bosses. And you don't really lack rage on boss fights. Good for 5 man heroics though.
    Granted have only done heroics and Baradin Hold so far, only fight I have lacked rage and had to use spell reflect has been the first boss in HC VP.

  14. #34
    Worst tanking guide I've ever read.

    It's all stats and button-mashing. There are no tanking skills explained here. This is a Wrath-noob tanking guide, not a Cata-guide.

    Where is CC explained? Where are marking and kill priorities explained? Where are safe-pulls, los-pulls, sheep-pulls, trap-pulls explained? What about spacing and ensuring melee DPS have room to get behind without aggro? What about moving mobs out of static AoE drops so that the melee DPS aren't getting hammered by it as well?

    The amount of tanks that just charge in and heroic leap and then just sit there like rocks, expecting to get healed through everything and everyone just work around him being the centre of the universe is part of the problem with tanking these days. That's the mentality of the Wrath-tank; run in, mash the same buttons over and over without thinking about anything else or anyone else. And this guide is great for them, but not for decent tanks who actually know about the important stuff that keeps a group alive and makes for smooth and successful runs.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by ddk View Post
    Where is CC explained? Where are marking and kill priorities explained? Where are safe-pulls, los-pulls, sheep-pulls, trap-pulls explained? What about spacing and ensuring melee DPS have room to get behind without aggro? What about moving mobs out of static AoE drops so that the melee DPS aren't getting hammered by it as well?
    This isn't an 'introduction to CT dungeons' guide sir.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by ddk View Post
    Worst tanking guide I've ever read.

    It's all stats and button-mashing. There are no tanking skills explained here. This is a Wrath-noob tanking guide, not a Cata-guide.

    Where is CC explained? Where are marking and kill priorities explained? Where are safe-pulls, los-pulls, sheep-pulls, trap-pulls explained? What about spacing and ensuring melee DPS have room to get behind without aggro? What about moving mobs out of static AoE drops so that the melee DPS aren't getting hammered by it as well?

    The amount of tanks that just charge in and heroic leap and then just sit there like rocks, expecting to get healed through everything and everyone just work around him being the centre of the universe is part of the problem with tanking these days. That's the mentality of the Wrath-tank; run in, mash the same buttons over and over without thinking about anything else or anyone else. And this guide is great for them, but not for decent tanks who actually know about the important stuff that keeps a group alive and makes for smooth and successful runs.
    those are other kinds of guides and not part of a warrior tanking guide this is meant to show you how do you your threat rotaion as a warrior and how to gear as a warrior

    if you want those kinds of guildes they are often named like general tanking guide or raid awareness guide or somthing other but they are not part of a warrior guide

  17. #37
    ty for guide its good 1

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by ddk View Post
    Worst tanking guide I've ever read.

    It's all stats and button-mashing. There are no tanking skills explained here. This is a Wrath-noob tanking guide, not a Cata-guide.

    Where is CC explained? Where are marking and kill priorities explained? Where are safe-pulls, los-pulls, sheep-pulls, trap-pulls explained? What about spacing and ensuring melee DPS have room to get behind without aggro? What about moving mobs out of static AoE drops so that the melee DPS aren't getting hammered by it as well?

    The amount of tanks that just charge in and heroic leap and then just sit there like rocks, expecting to get healed through everything and everyone just work around him being the centre of the universe is part of the problem with tanking these days. That's the mentality of the Wrath-tank; run in, mash the same buttons over and over without thinking about anything else or anyone else. And this guide is great for them, but not for decent tanks who actually know about the important stuff that keeps a group alive and makes for smooth and successful runs.
    tldr: explain common sense

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by ddk View Post
    Worst tanking guide I've ever read.

    It's all stats and button-mashing. There are no tanking skills explained here. This is a Wrath-noob tanking guide, not a Cata-guide.

    Where is CC explained? Where are marking and kill priorities explained? Where are safe-pulls, los-pulls, sheep-pulls, trap-pulls explained? What about spacing and ensuring melee DPS have room to get behind without aggro? What about moving mobs out of static AoE drops so that the melee DPS aren't getting hammered by it as well?

    The amount of tanks that just charge in and heroic leap and then just sit there like rocks, expecting to get healed through everything and everyone just work around him being the centre of the universe is part of the problem with tanking these days. That's the mentality of the Wrath-tank; run in, mash the same buttons over and over without thinking about anything else or anyone else. And this guide is great for them, but not for decent tanks who actually know about the important stuff that keeps a group alive and makes for smooth and successful runs.
    Sounds like a terribad dpser who wants to get carried through his heroics/raids. And really...I hear pulling groups away form the CC'ed targets is hard brah? or....are you one of those terrible huntards who can't even trap the right target?

  20. #40
    Legendary! muto's Avatar
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    Please take Avoidance over Stamina though, PLEASE!


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