Page 11 of 16 FirstFirst ...
9
10
11
12
13
... LastLast
  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Keosen View Post
    The difference between the 2 simulations seems weird considering the fact that SAs must be generated 60% more often than a static fight.
    Moving doesn't increase the proc chance by 60%, it increases it TO 60%.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  2. #202
    Herald of the Titans Keosen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Sin City
    Posts
    2,709
    Quote Originally Posted by Abandon View Post
    Moving doesn't increase the proc chance by 60%, it increases it TO 60%.
    "TO" not "UP TO"
    ie:
    Stand Still = 4%
    Moving = 60%
    Last edited by Keosen; 2011-01-26 at 02:22 PM.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Keosen View Post
    "TO" not "UP TO"
    ie:
    Stand Still = 4%
    Moving = 60%
    ...yes, I already said that.

    Although you are wrong about the stationary proc chance, it is 4% per talent point, so 12% if you have the three talent points in it like almost every Shadow Priest would do, and it goes up to 60% while moving. It doesn't increase it by 60% while moving, which would be a total of 72%, it increases it to 60%, which is what I said in my last post, which you tried to "correct".
    Last edited by Abandon; 2011-01-26 at 04:20 PM.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  4. #204
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    252
    Quote Originally Posted by Keosen View Post
    The difference between the 2 simulations seems weird considering the fact that SAs must be generated 60% more often than a static fight.
    This would be true if you were moving for 100% of you Shadow Word: Pain ticks. Simulation craft factors in extra movement in it's Helter Skelter setting but it is far from 100% run time.

    I can provide the hard statistics behind the increased amount of Shadowy Apparition procs if you like.

    However, since we're not all perfect players (we're not computers), the 4 piece will provide a bigger bonus than simulation craft will model for. Interestingly enough, the 4 piece actually provides those who move around more (an overall DPS loss) a bigger gain than those who generally play "better".

  5. #205
    Herald of the Titans Keosen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Sin City
    Posts
    2,709
    Quote Originally Posted by New View Post
    This would be true if you were moving for 100% of you Shadow Word: Pain ticks. Simulation craft factors in extra movement in it's Helter Skelter setting but it is far from 100% run time.

    I can provide the hard statistics behind the increased amount of Shadowy Apparition procs if you like.

    However, since we're not all perfect players (we're not computers), the 4 piece will provide a bigger bonus than simulation craft will model for. Interestingly enough, the 4 piece actually provides those who move around more (an overall DPS loss) a bigger gain than those who generally play "better".
    Yeah i agree with that New,i just had the feeling that the difference will be much higher.
    Do you have sim results for BiS static/HS fight w/o the 4pc from the PTR build to check the DPS gain/loss cause it seems went braindead and can't find any atm.
    Last edited by Keosen; 2011-01-27 at 08:20 AM.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Keosen View Post
    Yeah i agree with that New,i just had the feeling that the difference will be much higher.
    Do you have sim results for BiS static/HS fight w/o the 4pc from the PTR build to check the DPS gain/loss cause it seems went braindead and can't find any atm.
    The reason I am not going for the 4 piece because I am choosing pieces with better stats that will provide more consistent dps rather than a bonus that provides minimal dps gain on a RNG DPS stat that is low dmg compared to our other uses. Now this obviously doesn't mean I will avoid it if its an upgrade and the pieces I want don't drop (or I lose to DKP) because having a 4 heroic dps is sure to be a dps increase than not having normal pieces.

    That's just my reasoning, i doubt it makes a huge difference either way of having it or not having it, and I might change my mind when I see the final and new value of mastery

  7. #207
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    252
    EDITED SINCE ORIGINALLY POSTED

    I have posted the results in a couple threads, but I may as well run a new simulation so we have some more current results. These are using the PTR settings with a new Mastery over Crit BIS gear profile. I'll have more to say on Mastery versus Crit soon, but for now I'm just going to use what simulation craft provides:

    Patchwerk:
    Priest_Shadow_T11_372 4 Piece Enabled : 27149dps
    Priest_Shadow_T11_372 4 Piece Disabled: 26916dps
    Difference: 233 DPS

    Helter Skelter:
    Priest_Shadow_T11_372 : 23559dps 4 Piece Enabled : 25534dps
    Priest_Shadow_T11_372 : 23224dps 4 Piece Disabled: 25171dps
    Difference: 363 DPS

    The results for the Shadowy Apparitions procs are below:

    Code:
    					  DPS	DPS%	Count	Interval   DPE	   Hit	   Crit	   Max	   Crit%
    Patchwerk:	
    shadowy_apparition 372 4 Piece Enabled	  980	3.6%	27.5	15.57sec   15600   12307   25931   33306   28.6%
    shadowy_apparition 372 4 Piece Disabled	  753	2.8%	27.5	15.52sec   11974   9462	   19930   25620   28.3%
    
    Helter Skelter:	
    shadowy_apparition 372 4 Piece Enabled	  426	6.1%	39.6	10.95sec   15756   12336   25980   33306   28.7%
    shadowy_apparition 372 4 Piece Disabled	  1093	4.7%	39.5	10.99sec   12093   9491	   19965   25620   28.4%


    The DPS gain between the two cases is between 233-363 DPS. This equates out to ~70-110 Intellect worth of DPS.

    EDITED SINCE ORIGINALLY POSTED

    ---------- Post added 2011-01-27 at 04:07 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    The reason I am not going for the 4 piece because I am choosing pieces with better stats that will provide more consistent dps rather than a bonus that provides minimal dps gain on a RNG DPS stat that is low dmg compared to our other uses. Now this obviously doesn't mean I will avoid it if its an upgrade and the pieces I want don't drop (or I lose to DKP) because having a 4 heroic dps is sure to be a dps increase than not having normal pieces.

    That's just my reasoning, i doubt it makes a huge difference either way of having it or not having it, and I might change my mind when I see the final and new value of mastery
    Can you really offset 238-363 DPS by alternative gear choices? I would say the numbers provided are lower than what you would see in practice as I'm sure we would be moving more than what is coded in each scenario. Sure its RNG based, but I would still argue it you should get the 4-Piece tier bonus should you find yourself in a position to get it.
    Last edited by New; 2011-03-02 at 12:20 AM.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by New View Post

    Can you really offset 251 DPS by alternative gear choices? I would say the numbers provided are lower than what you would see in practice as I'm sure we would be moving more than what is coded in each scenario. Sure its RNG based, but I would still argue it you should get the 4-Piece tier bonus should you find yourself in a position to get it.
    I will eventually get it but even with sim craft I don't find it anything great to jump and down over I rather pass on it now and let people who will probably benefit from it more pick it up over me. Once token pieces are going to off spec then I will pick it up and test it out in real situations to get a better feel.

    And 251 dps (even if it does go up some) is something I can live without for now.

  9. #209
    Herald of the Titans Keosen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Sin City
    Posts
    2,709
    Quote Originally Posted by New View Post
    I have posted the results in a couple threads, but I may as well run a new simulation so we have some more current results. These are using the PTR settings with a new Mastery over Crit BIS gear profile. I'll have more to say on Mastery versus Crit soon, but for now I'm just going to use what simulation craft provides:

    Patchwerk:
    Priest_Shadow_T11_372_PTR 4 Piece Enabled : 29112dps
    Priest_Shadow_T11_372_PTR 4 Piece Disabled: 28861dps
    Difference: 251 DPS

    Helter Skelter:
    Priest_Shadow_T11_372_PTR 4 Piece Enabled : 25780dps
    Priest_Shadow_T11_372_PTR 4 Piece Disabled: 25425dps
    Difference: 355 DPS

    The results for the Shadowy Apparitions procs are below:

    Code:
    					  DPS	DPS%	Res%	Count	Interval   DPE	   Hit	   Crit	   Max	   Crit%
    Patchwerk:	
    shadowy_apparition 372 4 Piece Enabled	  1090	3.7%	0.0%	31.9	15.31sec   17095   13259   26726   34560   28.5%	
    shadowy_apparition 372 4 Piece Disabled	  835	2.9%	0.0%	31.8	15.46sec   13138   10197   20542   26584   28.4%
    
    Helter Skelter:	
    shadowy_apparition 372 4 Piece Enabled	  1600	6.2%	0.0%	46.7	10.57sec   17111   13270   26733   34560   28.5%
    shadowy_apparition 372 4 Piece Disabled	  1234	4.9%	0.0%	46.8	10.54sec   13176   10213   20559   26584   28.6%
    [COLOR="red"]

    ---------- Post added 2011-01-27 at 04:07 PM ----------
    Great post thanks m8.

  10. #210
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    252
    Going through my own logs (I can only use a couple fights as most have 2 Spriests in them, thus, ruining the analysis of Shadowy Apparitions):

    Atramedes: Shadowy Apparitions did 1442 DPS. 333 DPS of this was from the Tier set bonus.
    Heroic Chimaeron: Shadow Apparitions did 1179 DPS. 273 DPS of this was from Tier set bonus.

    This makes the 4 set (in this case) worth ~94-114 Intellect.

    I can understand passing for other people who may need the gear (healers/tanks) and that is very noble of you. If this is the reason for passing tier pieces, then your guild should pat you on the back.
    Last edited by New; 2011-01-31 at 01:26 AM.

  11. #211
    So, before, your stat weights were showing Brackish Gloves ( http://www.wowhead.com/item=59313 ) as BiS for us shadow priests.

    Now it's changed to Hands of the Twilight Council ( http://www.wowhead.com/item=59498 ) which are crit haste.

    But, the Brackish Gloves have a shit ton of haste on them. Since mastery is just getting changed around, why is this?

    What it comes down to though, I think, is that those stats are weighted from T11 gear, I'll let ya'll inspect my gear, and tell me what I'm doing right, or doing wrong!

    The question is this though. Keep my killshades the way they are (going to replace the meta once 4.0.6 hits) which is mastery/haste, or switch to haste/spirit.
    AND
    Use Brackish Gloves or Flamebloom Gloves?

    armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...endro/advanced

    waiting on what you pro's say, then i'll start tinkering too!

  12. #212
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    252
    I'm going to assume you're looking at the wowhead link with the stat weights put in. This is provided as a quick reference for a general ranking of gear using the gear stat weights based off a specific profile. A more accurate list can be created by running a simulation craft using your own profile and inputting your current stat weights.

    The reason you see the Hands of the Twilight Council coming out on top (in this list) is because the gain of the difference between Crit over Spirit is slightly higher than the loss of 20 Haste between them. However, If you look at the difference between the two values, the difference is very small.

    If you're considering using two offset pieces, I assume this means you don't expect to be getting the tier helm or tier shoulders to complete a 4-set bonus. I would try to get the 4-set when you can, but if you're gearing for the short term, then I can try to provide some advice for your current situation.

    Also, you appear to be in the group of people who raid under the hit cap so your mind set on how you model your gear is different from mine, so my advice may not be entirely apt. If you're looking forward to 4.0.6, I would keep the killshades with 208 Haste and 208 Mastery, keep the Brackish gloves, then reforge the various Crit you have on your gear for Spirit until you reach the hit cap.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by New View Post
    I'm going to assume you're looking at the wowhead link with the stat weights put in. This is provided as a quick reference for a general ranking of gear using the gear stat weights based off a specific profile. A more accurate list can be created by running a simulation craft using your own profile and inputting your current stat weights.

    The reason you see the Hands of the Twilight Council coming out on top (in this list) is because the gain of the difference between Crit over Spirit is slightly higher than the loss of 20 Haste between them. However, If you look at the difference between the two values, the difference is very small.

    If you're considering using two offset pieces, I assume this means you don't expect to be getting the tier helm or tier shoulders to complete a 4-set bonus. I would try to get the 4-set when you can, but if you're gearing for the short term, then I can try to provide some advice for your current situation.

    Also, you appear to be in the group of people who raid under the hit cap so your mind set on how you model your gear is different from mine, so my advice may not be entirely apt. If you're looking forward to 4.0.6, I would keep the killshades with 208 Haste and 208 Mastery, keep the Brackish gloves, then reforge the various Crit you have on your gear for Spirit until you reach the hit cap.
    I'm planning on getting the tier helm, but only using it once it'll give me the 4 set bonus.

    Would you use an offset shoulder or glove piece? Those seem to be the weakest of the set.

    I plan on reaching the hit cap after 4.0.6.

  14. #214
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    252
    Eventually the head piece will be the offset if we're all fortunate enough to kill Sinestraza. In the mean time, it's probably going to be better to go with a Tier helm + Brackish gloves combination. The 359 tier helm should be fairly easy to attain, and heroic Brackish gloves are from one of the easier hard-mode bosses.

  15. #215
    Are shadowy apparitions getting buffed in 4.06? I believe that the damage they do is tied to Mind Blast.

  16. #216
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    252
    Shadowy Apparitions used to be based on your Mind Blast damage. However, they have their own damage now so they will not be increasing as part of 4.0.6.

  17. #217
    Which meta will be the first choice after 4.0.6 is release? will it still be http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/52291/c...pirit-diamond/ or will we change to http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/68780/b...pirit-diamond/ ?

  18. #218
    Which addons are people using to track dots on multiple targets?

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by spda242 View Post
    Which meta will be the first choice after 4.0.6 is release? will it still be http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/52291/c...pirit-diamond/ or will we change to http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/68780/b...pirit-diamond/ ?
    Int > crit
    http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/68780/b...pirit-diamond/ Will be the new meta gem for all casters.

  20. #220
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    252
    Quote Originally Posted by spda242 View Post
    Which meta will be the first choice after 4.0.6 is release? will it still be http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/52291/c...pirit-diamond/ or will we change to http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/68780/b...pirit-diamond/ ?
    http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/68780/b...pirit-diamond/ by far

    ---------- Post added 2011-02-08 at 04:16 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by jimme View Post
    Which addons are people using to track dots on multiple targets?
    I use tidy plates with debuffs above the target's health bar enabled.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •