This is lol

[Grable]

Paladin died? That is not working as intended, Id raise a ticket m8 ASAP.

Fixed:

for (x = 0; x < infinite; x++)
{
Frost mage: cast pretty much any spell
Paladin: CCed
Paladin: Hand of freedom, YEAH!
Paladin: CCed
Frost mage: ice lance spam for 25k's
Paladin: Blow CD's, heal to 100%
}

OH SHI-stackoverflow

[grenvallion]

yes they can rofl.

[Pharazon]

Pharazon - Medivh Server
Troll Mage - 85
Fire and Frost Spec'd

The op has no idea what is broken as a frost mage in PVP. The strength of the CC we have is where the problem is, not damage. Someone posted a fight with a warrior and even that didn't show all the CC we have. While I don't think our CC should be taken away I do think there should be some diminishing returns on the freeze effects we have. I'll use the fight with the warrior as reference (with modified cc to better show what we would do):

charge -> frost nova -> intercept -> Freeze from water elemental, sheep, evocate back to full if needed (glyphed we get health as well), wait as long as possible to let things cool then break sheep -> deep freeze (remember water elemental freeze always stacks two fingers of frost) -> trinket -> heroic leap -> bladestorm -> iceblock -> start all over with frost nova etc

Somewhere in there we have to start losing effectiveness. I think the solution is to buff the affected target each time they are frozen to reduce the time on subsequent freezes which in turn lowers the damage we could deal with Ice Lance. While a warrior shouldn't be able to kill a frost mage, other classes (pretty much all of them rogues included) are having very similar problems of not even having a chance. And especially in the case of rogues, mages should have a harder time getting a win against an equally skilled opponent. I'm not saying nerf us into the ground as I personally feel some minor tweaks would accomplish what people are wanting.

We really need mages to be objective and get ahead with realistic solutions instead of just shooting off at the mouth saying "We're Fine" when clearly we're not, or "Nerf Damage" when the problem isn't damage. Take some time and think about the problem and maybe we can keep from getting on the nerf pendulum this time.

[Maelztrom]

I agree. I've always been a frost mage and have know the pain of being underpowered (at least in pve).
People will always QQ about x and y classed if they dont know how to beat them. Its impossible for blizzard to balance the classes to the point where no one complains.
AS far as im concerned though, i don't care if we are OP or not (i dont think we are). But we do deserve it for a little.

[Deleted]

I agree. I've always been a frost mage and have know the pain of being underpowered (at least in pve).
People will always QQ about x and y classed if they dont know how to beat them. Its impossible for blizzard to balance the classes to the point where no one complains.
AS far as im concerned though, i don't care if we are OP or not (i dont think we are). But we do deserve it for a little.

competetive spec since tbc in pvp deserve it? Yup that makes sence. No. No. No. Mages were op and probably still am after this change.

[griszek]

So in other words OP is upset, just because baaad community doesn't want to allow him kills everybody just because he is a mage, no skill involved ?

I think it's great.

[Manito]

You fail to give any evidence at all why or how classes can counter u. Then just comment away with "You are suparBAD" L2P.

It's obvious that Frost mages have it very easy at the moment. Most frost mages say it, hell even you say it. Are the OP beyond control? Prob not, I seem to do ok/kill them sometimes.

It's your job to find a way to "counter". Not his to tell you how to do it.

[Penatar]

Can't beat them, join them

ive considered it, but oh shit they are boring to level.

[Koridian]

Any class with high survivability and high burst dmg is OP. Frost mages fit snugly into this box. Add in the fact - Frost mages don't have the same mana issues as other casters therefore they are super duper OP. What makes a Frost Mage op is three-fold. One, the water elemental is allowed to use "freeze" - in the past Frost Mages couldn't use freeze if they used the glyph for a full time water elemental. Two, the burst dmg is a little over the top against frozen targets, especially since there are 4 methods available to freeze 'em (yes sarcasm - frost nova, freeze, cone of cold and fingers of frost). And three, ring of frost in itself isn't op - but added to the arsenal of a frost mage it is ridiculous. Dispell is mage's kryptonite, but not every class can counter (rogues, druids, warriors and dk's can't)(locks, palys and hunters possess limited ability with cds). I play a mage and I can honestly say I breeze thru content with more confidence and authority than I do with any other class.

[Sindy]

Frost mage: cast pretty much any spell
Terrible Player: CCed
Terrible Player: Hand of freedom, YEAH!
Terrible Player: CCed
Frost mage: ice lance spam for 25k's
Terrible Player: dead
.
.

Your post has been fixed to reflect actuality.

[candyass]

we were ridiculous at the end of wotlk and 81-84 of Cata imo but lvl 85 pvp isn't nearly as crazy. the QQ over ring of frost is so stupid to me, at least focus on QQ'ing about something thats consistent and not a one time long CD cc. the other problem with frost mages is they stack really well together sharing shatter targets.

[rtjason]

warriors can't defeat a decent frost mage. No matter how skilled or geared the warrior is.

as a warrior: charge -> frost nova -> intercept -> another freeze thing (like a smaller version of iceblock) -> trinket -> heroic leap -> bladestorm -> iceblock -> etc...

every warrior counter can be countered by a mage >_< has been like this since vanilla.

Since you don't use half your abilities and bladestorm with with blink and iceblock up, yeah you probably will lose.

---------- Post added 2010-12-28 at 10:51 PM ----------

Any class with high survivability and high burst dmg is OP. Frost mages fit snugly into this box. Add in the fact - Frost mages don't have the same mana issues as other casters therefore they are super duper OP. What makes a Frost Mage op is three-fold. One, the water elemental is allowed to use "freeze" - in the past Frost Mages couldn't use freeze if they used the glyph for a full time water elemental. Two, the burst dmg is a little over the top against frozen targets, especially since there are 4 methods available to freeze 'em (yes sarcasm - frost nova, freeze, cone of cold and fingers of frost). And three, ring of frost in itself isn't op - but added to the arsenal of a frost mage it is ridiculous. Dispell is mage's kryptonite, but not every class can counter (rogues, druids, warriors and dk's can't)(locks, palys and hunters possess limited ability with cds). I play a mage and I can honestly say I breeze thru content with more confidence and authority than I do with any other class.

So you've already played more than one class at high end pvp in this expansion? An every class should counter mages? Funny you put druids and dks in that category of not countering mages. If you don't like the water ele, a good idea is to kill it. It's a cd, not like a lock where you can summon it right back.

[Drakoes]

Because some classes can't counter frost mages.

Like Hunters lol

[Deleted]

its funny, Pharazon made an excellent post how he views the problem and his solution to fix such a thing.

BUT not one poster actually replied in a intelligent way.
i can rage to the people that they refuse to actually debate such a thing.

But let's see if we can get less brain-fart reply's here.

Anyway: a few idea's for improving the mage class (yes improving, not making them better but putting them on a place inline with other classes)

1- mage has to much cc and skills without any spec chosen, a few examples:
- make counterspell a dispell and only if you specced in arcane it can actually steal a buff.
- let slows work like chains of ice worked of a death knight (you totally stand still the first second and gain speed as time goes by.
- ring of frost: make is an frost only spell and either decrease the duration,decrease the times it can freezes people or give it a 2 sec + cast time so people can actually react on it.

please.. I beg with all the decency a human can have.. don't just say: rofl l2play we are fine.
please view my post and some above and try to defend why a certain thing would not work or why it is a good idea.
If people view mages as OP it is a part of reality. not your reality but a reality non the less and should be debated.

i bet with a bit of effort i could expose alot of trolls the mods were not paying attention to.
people you could have banned so far on this topic:
drakoes, naming a random class to prove his point that his class is fine.

rtjason, first sentence you basicly called him bad, 2e story you say kill the pet (we are discussing that mages have to much cc, wake up) and using a random class as example.

candyass, not really trolling but has the oppinion cd's do not matter, which they do.

sindy, calling another person a bad player without reason or logic. troll.


Manito: gentle way of saying another player sucks, dont see a reason why you should say this.

grizek: no wonder the mage community is so stubborn at admitting they might be tweaked alittle bit with poster lurking around like you.
your typing what you think is the reason he posted, what good does your post do in this topic?

Mealstromz: first poster who has no intention of trying to make someone look like and idiot and gives his honest oppinion, kudo's for you sir.
.

Get real people and please don't insult the human race by showing you can't have a normal discussion with another person without attacking him personally ( i know this is the way to go in politics, but you should be better than those ego's).

try to better yourself people and why not start on something as small as this forum.

[nemex]

Closing this. So much useless trolling and spam. Thank you to those who kept it constructive.