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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Tihr View Post
    You don't need Darkness if you can easily hit 7.5% via gearing. Good Priests stack mastery (check Jhazrun of Paragon, as an example), because it's free healing. The sole reason people are gearing 7.5% is for the extra Renew tick, otherwise you'd literally just stack mastery in every possible slot.
    Haste is multiplicative, even without Darkness you need 7.1%, not 7.5%, for the fifth tick. But it's a pointless thing to gear around, you might as well go 100% mastery at that point because it's also "free healing".

    But of course, you mean the same Jhazrun that benched his Priest for half of beta because content was "impossible" to heal before, claiming the problem wasn't horribly broken Paladins/Druids, but that Priests were at fault? The same Jhazrun that says Chakra won't work until it's a stance mechanic?

    Nice attempt at belittling someone though.
    Nice attempt at being a sheep.
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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    Haste is multiplicative, even without Darkness you need 7.1%, not 7.5%, for the fifth tick. But it's a pointless thing to gear around, you might as well go 100% mastery at that point because it's also "free healing".

    But of course, you mean the same Jhazrun that benched his Priest for half of beta because content was "impossible" to heal before, claiming the problem wasn't horribly broken Paladins/Druids, but that Priests were at fault? The same Jhazrun that says Chakra won't work until it's a stance mechanic?

    Nice attempt at being a sheep.
    Good post, haste is nice but so much is needed to make a difference in a holy priest cast times. Also giving renew one more tick at the cost of that much mastery is hard to justify. Considering almost all holy priest healing will be in the form of direct heals/echo of light.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Tihr View Post
    You don't need Darkness if you can easily hit 7.5% via gearing. Good Priests stack mastery (check Jhazrun of Paragon, as an example), because it's free healing. The sole reason people are gearing 7.5% is for the extra Renew tick, otherwise you'd literally just stack mastery in every possible slot.

    Nice attempt at belittling someone though.
    Your tongue is brown

  4. #24
    High Overlord Starcrossedd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tihr View Post
    You don't need Darkness if you can easily hit 7.5% via gearing. Good Priests stack mastery (check Jhazrun of Paragon, as an example), because it's free healing. The sole reason people are gearing 7.5% is for the extra Renew tick, otherwise you'd literally just stack mastery in every possible slot.

    Nice attempt at belittling someone though.
    I love your argument here: "Well this guy from this good guild does this, so everybody else should too, because he does it." Fact is, most raiding guilds spec and gear completely to fit the raid comp's needs. It's much more beneficial either doing some real research or learning through trial and error. I was stacking mastery, then switched to stacking haste instead, I have now found a healthy balance between the two. But saying "all good priests do this" is very very very wrong.
    Last edited by Starcrossedd; 2010-12-31 at 07:30 PM.

  5. #25
    If you are using Renew in raids, you already fail. Please re-roll.

    I'm sitting at Ilvl 358 and I got mastery on all my items except the t11 head and shoulder. 47% to shield and 27% to echo. And with my lovely 0.98% haste gogoblizz. You won't go oom, you're always topping the meters (no meters mean shit, but if you do a lot of healing your asigned targets usually survive if you did the healing in the first place) and you give them a nice hot.

    PoH is my most used spell, followed my echoes of light and third is CoH or PoM depending on what fight. Not sure why you all want that 7.5% haste for renew unless you are going to stay in heroics for all eternity.

    PS: the desciplinaryaction guide seems utterly retarded. Most of the item choices makes absolutely no sense. Make your own BiS list, if you want more haste pick those items, if you want mastery pick those. Simple as that. There are no items that will be better or worse for us, it's all about to your personal preference. Mine looks something like this

    11 Head
    Wyrmbreaker's Amulet - Halfus Wyrmbreaker There is also a haste and/or mastery head and if you are in a top guild you can might eventually get some insane al'akir random generated legs.
    T11 Shoulder
    Heavenly Breeze cloak - Vendor
    Robes of the Burning Acolyte - Halfus Wyrmbreaker
    Bracers of the Burningeye - Atramedes only choice
    T11 Gloves
    Belt Rep belt until you can get some haste hardmode which will outweight it either way
    T11 Legs
    Treads of Liquid Ice - Elementium Monstrosity
    Security Measure Alpha - Crit ring or get lucky at alibaba council
    Twined Band of Flowers - Mastery ring

    (Staff and MH+OH are identical except for the off-hand enchant. Staff <3)
    Chelley's Staff of Dark Mending - Trash bastion of twilight staff
    Andoros, Fist of the Dragon King - Nefarian 1 handed mace
    Headbound Tome - Boe /Scepter of Ice - Ascendant Council
    Finkle's Mixer Upper - Chimaeron

    Core of Ripeness - Vendor V same
    Fall of Mortality - Cho'gall ^ same
    Tyrande's Favorite Doll - Acheology
    Jar of Ancient Remedies - Maloriak

    Just swap out some ring/cloak/neck for more haste if that's what you prefer.

  6. #26
    just chiming in to say that disciplinaryaction bis raiding gear list is crap. They say they weigh stats as Spirit > Intellect > Critical > Haste > Stamina but most of the BiS gear they have listed has 0 spirit.

  7. #27
    Stood in the Fire ODDLAWL's Avatar
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    TY all for the input, mastery really is good since I've found myself forced to do 25 mans and just using PoH and PoM(not saying I don't use them in 10 mans) but there's def more time to regen mana in a 10 man than there is in a 25 man)
    Edit: I've also been reading that 12.5 haste WITH raid buffs and what not was what people should be aiming for, is this personal preference or what most ppl are doing?
    Last edited by ODDLAWL; 2011-01-03 at 04:48 AM.

  8. #28
    My BiS that I created is nearly identical to Tavin's. Of course nobody likes being at the mercy of the RNG gods in TFW. You have the same amount of luck on getting tier legs or gloves in BH. My thought process is that there may be a lot of competition for those head/shoulder tokens which is why I choose the helm as my off-set piece (either Valiona [haste] or Magmaw [mastery] helm is good) and took the tier chest despite the lol crit. There is a spirit/haste cloak off Valiona dubbed the "LOL STAR" cloak if haste is your thing too.
    I would considering adding DMC:T to the trinket list.
    Last edited by Maxpowr; 2011-01-03 at 04:49 AM.

  9. #29
    Keyboard Turner disciplinaryaction's Avatar
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    Haste is so easy to overlook (and I love it for those long casts!), but I'm still not seeing the benefit of Mastery on my offspec Holy. I'm not nearly as up on Holy gear as you guys, as a dedicated Disco, but what's the general consensus on the Mastery/Haste tradeoff?
    Last edited by disciplinaryaction; 2011-01-12 at 05:55 PM. Reason: Spellcheck, I has it not.

  10. #30
    There is no real consensus. Haste is your highest HPS secondary stat, but Mastery increases HPM as well. So in general if you have mana problems you should favor Mastery slightly more and if you don't then you should favor Haste slightly more.

    In regard to BiS lists as a Healer: Don't use them. You will hurt yourself.

    What you need to do is determine the stats you want to prioritize as well as any thresholds of certain stats you wish to maintain. For instance you do not want to drop under 515 Haste under any circumstance. This is the minimum any Holy Priest should have. So even if you place higher priority on Mastery you will still want 515 Haste.

    So your general priority would be: Int > Spirit > Mastery > Haste > Crit
    Your actual priority would be: Int > Spirit > Haste (to 515) > Mastery > Haste > Crit

    Once you have a priority you like you need to weight it. You'll need two weightings. One is for any regen, the other for any output. Regardless of your other weightings Int on the regen table should be worth ~75% of Spirit. For output numbers are more definite. Haste is ~40% better than Mastery when spamming spells. If you spam spells 50% of the time it's 20% better, if you spam spells 25% of the time it's only 10% better and so on. Crit is worth ~40% of Mastery. Spellpower is roughly equal to Haste; however, you also gain 1% crit per 648.91 Int. This means Int will always have a higher value than Haste for output. You then need to decide on a good base value. I like to use 50 as the starting point and use Spirit and Haste as the baselines. So Spirit = 50, Haste = 50. If Spirit = 50 as regen then Int's regen worth = 37.5. If we assume 50% spam then Haste = 50 as output, Int = 55.71, SP = 50, Mastery = 41.67 and Crit = 20.83.

    You then need to weight how important each is. I do this at 75:25 favoring Regen. Simply multiply each by the correct factor (.75 for Regen, .25 for Output) and add Int's values together, then compare. This comes out as follows:

    Int: 42.05
    Spirit: 37.5
    Haste: 12.5
    SP: 12.5
    Mastery: 10.41
    Crit: 5.2

    You then put this into something like WoWHead and get a result for each item. For some trinkets you will need to do this manually. Simply find their uptime and values and compare them.

    So if I were to find the best chest piece in T11 for my needs it would look like this: Best 346+ Chests

    If you really wanted you could make a list with the 4-5 options available and compare them, but ultimately this is what you should be doing. You are not a DPS class. Your needs are more personal than universal.

  11. #31
    My biggest question is, where are all the haste items? They either have mastery (yay) or crit (blah). Nefarian mace, atramedes bracer, alakir haste legs, conclave of winds haste, haste gloves from somewhere too i think, valiona helmet and thats pretty much it i believe. Like chest, neck, rings etc have crit or mastery.

    I got 0 haste (well 125 after enchants) and on our current hardmode encounters such as maloriak and halfus I'm ending the fight at 15-18k hps.

    With the future PW:S changes I would suggest people to drop even more haste for mastery^

  12. #32
    Not sure what you've been looking at. My 272 wishlist has 1,875 Haste on it. Just under 24% raid buffed Haste. That's while maintaining ~3k Spirit and 12 Mastery.

    You mentioned PW:S changes... are you Discipline? If so then running at only 125 haste is ridiculously low. Haste is Disciplines best stat and will continue to be its best stat in 4.0.6. As Holy Haste/Mastery is up for debate. As Discipline it certainly isn't.

  13. #33
    High Overlord Arrelliana's Avatar
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    Harky is exactly on point on this one..weighting stats is the best way to compare gear but can't be the end all be all of gear. If that was the case according to my stat weights I would always take mastery above everything else.

    To the posters above on renew...really...with the upcoming changes renew is becoming much more attractive and definately has it's place in raids with lots of movement or where you need steady hps on a target that doesn't warrant a direct heal.

    The best priest imo keeps their stats balanced and focuses on gearing towards their playstyle. If you tank heal your stats will be slightly different than a pure raid healing priest. 10 man group without a resto shaman might value regen higher. The current thing with priests is..go for int and spirit and a dose of haste/mastery that suits you and you will be in good shape. If you have too much mana at the end of a fight..get some haste. Going oom..switch in some regen trinkets and shoot some mastery to extend your mana pool.

  14. #34
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    A nice post by harky. I've always hated BiS lists for healing precisely because healing is not a single point optimization like DPS is. For DPS, its relatively trivial to find the set of gear that produces the most DPS, and then that's clearly the BiS list. For healers, we have to take into account regen and throughput; moreso, a balance of different kinds of the different kinds of throughput that the different stats offer. I can put together a set of gear that produces the most HPS or the most HPM, but chances are the first will go OOM and the latter will lack in throughput. Obviously, the true optimal set lies somewhere in between, but finding that spot depends on stat weightings based upon your current gear, role, etc.

    The other problem with BiS lists is that it often encourages people to pass on obvious upgrades that will improve their performance, and thus the raid's, in hopes for a piece that is only marginally better and may or may not ever drop. As they say, "a bird in the hand...".

  15. #35
    Stood in the Fire ODDLAWL's Avatar
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    4p, offset headpiece off Valiona or Magmaw and lets roll

  16. #36
    Keyboard Turner disciplinaryaction's Avatar
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    Have the 4.0.6 changes changed how you guys' BiS Holy list looks? I'm working on a Holy offspec and can't wrap my head around the changes.

  17. #37
    Stood in the Fire ODDLAWL's Avatar
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    no, not really :/ a lot of people are complaining about their mana regen but I really haven't noticed the changes at all, it feels just the same.

  18. #38
    Brewmaster Mazi's Avatar
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    I felt the mana change a bit - but got my 4pc at the end of the night and now I'm fine. I think the change really just makes the 4pc that much sexier. My gear choices haven't changed at all.

    It also means you shouldn't spam PoH as much :P

  19. #39
    Keyboard Turner disciplinaryaction's Avatar
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    And you guys don't even see the hotfixed increased cost in bubbles! :`(

  20. #40
    Brewmaster Mazi's Avatar
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    What does that have to do with Holy BiS Raid Gear?

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