Removing Mana Burn!?!?

[Deleted]

, its going to make me playing a priest in PvP less appealing.

You're not having these feelings already ?

hmm, tryed arena yet ?

[Deleted]

I absolutely cannot wait until mana burn is removed. The most retarded spell ever.
Shield, renew, pom, mana burn mana burn mana burn mana burn, shield, renew, pom, mana burn mana burn. So GD sick of that shit in arena its not even funny. All priests ever try to do is mana burn.

Like all the people crying about priests in pvp,
is the weakest healer atm
a paladin that Burns the mana is bad
a shaman who Burns the mana is bad
a priest who Burns the mana is bad
a druid who Burns the mana is horrible
Cast a mana burn takes several seconds are enough to go in "LOS"
If you're forced to get Mana Burned is because your partner is doing something wrong.
I played all the calss (not shaman) and I find that the Paladin and / or druids who complain of this spell are the most whiners and the worst healer

Btw mana burn is a strong spell, if it will be nerfed i hope they lower the cost of it

[Argent Champion]

Why isn't there a choice of "About freakin' time!"?

Mana burn is ridiculous. "Oh look another healer. Good thing I brought my I Win button, Mana Burn. Woops, oom? I guess I win."

People say "Well you can los mana burn!" And then what? Hide behind your wall until the fight is over? That's pretty much the same thing as being oom. Removing your opponent's mana should have never been a mechanic and if blizz does anything less than removing the ability outright, it wasn't enough.

[Deleted]

People say "Well you can los mana burn!" And then what? Hide behind your wall until the fight is over?

u mad?
he cast -> u los then u come out and heal then los again.
if he is continuing to try to burn your mana, of course he will not heal
and if it starts to heal, however, you do not get burned and you'll have at least 2 sec in most of him because of his GCD

[Abandon]

Perhaps a little more elaboration is in order for this topic. If the priest was shadow, which already focuses on destructive principles, then Mana Burn might make more sense. Afterall, Mana Burn says "destroy 10% of target's mana." Holy priests and Disc priests, in my opinion, don't fit this role from a lore perspective. They are supposed to be doing the opposite of destruction. You might not agree with me, but we agree to disagree. Gameplay wise it's just thrown in there for the very sake of gameplay.

The reason it says "Destroy" is because people whined that the previous tooltip was unclear when it said "Drains" and were asking why they don't get the mana.

---------- Post added 2010-12-29 at 12:53 PM ----------

Why isn't there a choice of "About freakin' time!"?

Mana burn is ridiculous. "Oh look another healer. Good thing I brought my I Win button, Mana Burn. Woops, oom? I guess I win."

People say "Well you can los mana burn!" And then what? Hide behind your wall until the fight is over? That's pretty much the same thing as being oom. Removing your opponent's mana should have never been a mechanic and if blizz does anything less than removing the ability outright, it wasn't enough.

It's a shame that nobody has any instant cast healing spells.

[Deleted]

I absolutely cannot wait until mana burn is removed. The most retarded spell ever.
Shield, renew, pom, mana burn mana burn mana burn mana burn, shield, renew, pom, mana burn mana burn. So GD sick of that shit in arena its not even funny. All priests ever try to do is mana burn.

Sure thats how priests play in arena now..... Get a clue scrub..

[Ultima]

I find when they say might, it means a terrible terrible "We're slightly sorry for your impending loss".

Fine, you've taken it away. I care a little bit as a Shadow Priest. I care a lot as a healing Priest, so what offensive-ness will get to replace it?

[Noxia]

No, I don't play on a RP server. I play on Hyjal, which is PvE, but that is besides the point.

Perhaps a little more elaboration is in order for this topic. If the priest was shadow, which already focuses on destructive principles, then Mana Burn might make more sense. Afterall, Mana Burn says "destroy 10% of target's mana." Holy priests and Disc priests, in my opinion, don't fit this role from a lore perspective. They are supposed to be doing the opposite of destruction. You might not agree with me, but we agree to disagree. Gameplay wise it's just thrown in there for the very sake of gameplay.

Citizen says to fellow priest, "I require your aid [Holy] priest, my friend needs healing!"
Priest says to fellow citizen, "Busy draining the mana of this hethen paladin! Can this wait?"
*Hethen paladin loses all mana; submits*
Priest says to fellow citizen, "Now what was it you wanted?"
Citizen says to fellow priest, "Nevermind, I found another priest."

Kinda see what I'm getting at here? Or am I missing the point? Anyways...

I agree with you on the Mind Soothe bit, but add it to affect more than just mana. Rage? Focus? Energy? You are soothing the mind, so you would think that ever-aggresive warrior suddenly couldn't get rage as quickly. But at the same time, soothing the mind of a friendly player, wouldn't that act as a sort of benefit? The mind is calmed, concentration is more precise, perhaps granting an increase to mana regen. Maybe more? It would be an interesting debate.

The mana exchange would be a clever mechanic, but it would have to be equal exchange. I give my fellow holy paladin 10k mana, but I'd lose 10k of my own. A self-imposed mana burn of sorts. But if one interprets as such, doesn't a man of the cloth (priest) make sacrifices upon himself for the greater good of his people? It wouldn't be interpreted as destructive per se. Maybe to make it seem less destructive on the priest, after trigging said mana exchange, you get a temporary mana cost reduction? It's an interesting idea.

Perhaps I'm just taking this too seriously. This is a game afterall...heh.

Shadow Word: Pain/Death, Devouring Plague, Mind Blast/Spike/Control, should we completely remove these abilities from holy/disc priests toolset too because they aren't... fitting? Healing priests do use these abilities in pvp after all, even though they're supposed to be all holy and caring.

[Scubacuda]

I'm approaching these abilities based on a lore perspective per se and not a gameplay. If went strictly by lore, only the Forsaken priests would have shadow spells and everyone else would only use Light-based spells (save maybe Troll priests, technically classified as witch doctors). The spells HAVE to be given across the board for the sake of gameplay.

Side note: yes, I know that some Forsaken use Light-based spells according to lore, but it incredibly hurts them. So don't get off on a tangent about it.

Mind Blast, Spike, and Control all encapsulate the mentality that the priest controls his flock through faith and mind. They are great preachers and great manipulators. Mind Control is pretty much WoW's interpretation of our RL brainwashing which religious cults have done, resulting in many deaths. But I don't want to get into a RL debate about religious cults. I'm just stating it to make a point.

Devouring Plague, for the longest time, was an exclusive Forsaken priest racial. I was caught by surprise when it was given to the rest of us. I very rarely use it though because of it's mana cost. If you were Shadow, by all means use it. It works better through Shadow afterall.

But getting back to the original point of this thread about Mana Burn. I don't see it being a useful spell anymore considering all the changing, tweaking, etc. An arguement can be made about just simply LoS'ing the spell, and given that all our haste right now is very low, the spell takes too long to cast. If it goes, it goes. I won't complain about it.

[underdogba]

So priests are generally balanced around this one "powerful if the other team is crap" ability, nerfing that ability isn't going to suddenly make priests better without some sort of replacement. My question would be what are priests getting instead?

Honestly probably absolutely nothing. They've already done something similar with Ret paladins in Wrath, insofar as nerfing burst because they were too strong at low skill levels, while essentially toothless at higher skill levels.

[sennzlol]

They should just remove Drain Mana from locks, and let priests keep Mana Burn.

Since when is it logical to ever give a class that technically has unlimited mana, be able to OOM anything with a blue bar. Where as Mana Burn also oom's the priest.

[Deleted]

no, just drain mana from locks, mana burn is in review from what i understand. too bad.

[sennzlol]

Yup. But that what I said above, pretty much is a valid argument to why we should keep it

[KresnikHellfire]

Firstly, your poll is absolutely rubbish, so I won't be voting because I don't fit either of those descriptions.

Regardless, as I guess none of you will remember, when I posted my thoughts of playing on Cataclysm beta a few months ago one of the things I noticed was that mana burn was vastly OP, even if the class was not. I've found that Blizzard have finally realised that.

I've been complaining about drain mana since S2 when I started arena, so I'm happy to see that go - Spammable on a class with infinite mana which doesn't break fear and goes through LoS is completely retarded. I try to take a balanced view about mana burn so I don't see it as completely overpowered but a few things need to change for us to keep it / a few things need to change if we are to lose it:

Blizzard seems to be trying to homogenise healers so we all have the same healing power / choices of heals etc. Obviously there are still a number of differences but generally they're trying to make them all similar. One of the things that you'll notice about priests, especially in PvP, is that mana is a much more valuable resource than any other healer - thats why RMP was all about lining up a quick kill before priest goes oom in WoTLK, and it's still the case now.

I can only presume that priest mana is so bad because of mana burn, it was essentially a choice - your mana for their mana, and it was a choice I enjoyed making in 2v2 - sometimes we'd try and get a kill by bursting, sometimes we'd slowly take away their mana with mana burn.

If mana burn is to be removed, I'd expect priests to be given MUCH better ways of retaining their mana - lower mana costs on all our healing spells would be a good start. And in return, i'd also expect us to be given better ways to do damage, currently holy paladin burst damage with exorcism is a lot faster / harder hitting / less mana than ours which is just ridiculous.

The other alternative, I suppose, is putting a cooldown on mana burn, or making it be affected by resiliance. The former is a decent option - for example, you can still get a mana burn off on a kidney shotted healer or something, and the latter is something that happened that never really worked.

Right now, though, mana burn is too strong. I noticed it on beta and I'm saying it again now. I can't log into game at the moment to see the tooltip but it's something like 3k of my mana for 8-9k of an enemy healer's mana, and that's just too strong. I don't know what needs to happen to change it, but something needs to.

[sacrypheyes]

(...)
Right now, though, mana burn is too strong. I noticed it on beta and I'm saying it again now. I can't log into game at the moment to see the tooltip but it's something like 3k of my mana for 8-9k of an enemy healer's mana, and that's just too strong. I don't know what needs to happen to change it, but something needs to.

with a base cast time of 2.5s (2s before), no more talents to improve it (that allowed to lower it by 0.5s) and low haste scores we have atm, it's never been that easy to interrupt a mana burn cast and/or go out of LoS and/or out of range.

we're not even killing anyone (well not directly that is) with this (or any other spell actually) while you got warriors facerolling everything, frost mages chain-icelancing/RoF-ing as they wish, ferals bleeding everything to death, and the list goes on...

[KresnikHellfire]

with a base cast time of 2.5s (2s before), no more talents to improve it (that allowed to lower it by 0.5s) and low haste scores we have atm, it's never been that easy to interrupt a mana burn cast and/or go out of LoS and/or out of range.

we're not even killing anyone (well not directly that is) with this (or any other spell actually) while you got warriors facerolling everything, frost mages chain-icelancing/RoF-ing as they wish, ferals bleeding everything to death, and the list goes on...

Yes, other shit is bad, I get that, but that doesn't mean you can just ignore when something is broken.

It's easy to interrupt a mana burn, yes. It's also easy to pop pws -> power infusion and get 35% spell haste on your next cast.

And in addition, the kind of scenarios I was talking about are the ones where it's particularly easy for a mage / priest, rogue / priest, or mage / rogue / priest to set up. Healer caught in a stunlock, partner (or 2 partners) caught in CC / roots. With free reign to cast there you can easily chain 3-4 mana burns and destroy 30-40k of an enemy healer's mana pool.

[sacrypheyes]

in any 3v3 setup, if said healer doesn't get any help from his mate, they just deserve to lose.

and as far as i can tell, i'm (as a priest) usually the one who gets facerolled in the first 20seconds with any decent 3v3 arena team atm. so while your scenario can happen, i'm quite confident that it's not that often for now since we're so squishy.