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  1. #21

    FoF?

    What happened to the long convoluted discussion of FoF and why you need 2 charges before casting Ice Lance?

    Also, your macro
    #showtooltip
    /cast frostbolt
    /petattack
    /cast waterbolt
    doesn't quite work in Frostbolt spamming situations. The pet never completes his cast.
    Last edited by Excelis; 2011-01-02 at 06:03 PM.

  2. #22
    Question:

    The guide repeatedly states that Frostfire bolt should be used when mind freeze AND fingers of frost are up. This would be to ensure that frostfire bolt benefits from the fingers of frost increased critical strike chance.

    ...But as I read it, Fingers of Frost states: "Gives your Chill effects a 20% chance to grant you the Fingers of Frost effect, which causes your next Ice Lance or Deep Freeze spell to act as if your target were frozen."
    Frostfire bolt isn't mentioned.

    Is this an error in the talent description, or in the guide?

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by karmlol View Post
    Question:

    The guide repeatedly states that Frostfire bolt should be used when mind freeze AND fingers of frost are up. This would be to ensure that frostfire bolt benefits from the fingers of frost increased critical strike chance.

    ...But as I read it, Fingers of Frost states: "Gives your Chill effects a 20% chance to grant you the Fingers of Frost effect, which causes your next Ice Lance or Deep Freeze spell to act as if your target were frozen."
    Frostfire bolt isn't mentioned.

    Is this an error in the talent description, or in the guide?
    Neither, read the tooltip for Brain Freeze too

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by karmlol View Post
    Question:

    The guide repeatedly states that Frostfire bolt should be used when mind freeze AND fingers of frost are up. This would be to ensure that frostfire bolt benefits from the fingers of frost increased critical strike chance.

    ...But as I read it, Fingers of Frost states: "Gives your Chill effects a 20% chance to grant you the Fingers of Frost effect, which causes your next Ice Lance or Deep Freeze spell to act as if your target were frozen."
    Frostfire bolt isn't mentioned.

    Is this an error in the talent description, or in the guide?
    Only a Frostfire Bolt casted instantly under the effects of Brain Freeze is affected by FoF. This is stated in the Brain Freeze talent description.

  5. #25

  6. #26
    Field Marshal Trivorx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notix View Post
    Question:
    Why do Frost mages (PvE) have mastery rating (Frostburn, ''All your spells deal 20% increased damage against Frozen targets.'')
    FoF doesn't benefit from mastery. I hope blizzard fix this..

    Nice guide.
    Afaik FoF states that spells behave as if frozen when it is active.
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  7. #27
    Mage armor is better to keep up period for frost than molten on long (read: any raid boss fights). It has nothing to do with being a beginner. The GCD loss and mana cost loss is not worth switching armors and you don't have a mana conservation rotation.

    Also the "quirks" are not something we need to deal with. Keep reporting every single time your orb gets stuck on terrain and just stays in place after you cast it. The fail travel mechanics of this spell are unacceptable and if you don't speak up and just "deal with it" you're going to end up with a sub-par spell on some fights. Also the RNG mechanics that may force the tank to move the boss in a way you cannot predict will also screw you over on this spell.

    It also can get you killed in trash pulls because for some dumb reason it thinks it still needs to move while its attacking (should stop when it reaches a target until its dead once they fix the stupid critter targeting) so in confined areas it's a liability.

    RoF is the only good new spell mages got (that brings something unique to the table and isn't rife with mechanic issues/bugs). As many times as Time Lust has made a difference for me in a 5-man, I shudder at the fact that it pretty much won't even get used in 25s and that I really only got two new spells that I'm in control of this expansion, because as you also agree, you need to do it when it benefits the group...which basically means you don't get to choose when to use it, but rather the encounter does...boo.
    Last edited by Eleveneleven; 2011-01-02 at 04:39 PM.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Trivorx View Post
    Afaik FoF states that spells behave as if frozen when it is active.
    I have tested on my mage... In PvP gear, i have 15.53% mastery, I cast Ice lance and crits 16k on dummy while FoF is active.. And when I cast ice lance on the dummy while it is frozen (not FoF), i crit almost 20k.

  9. #29
    Epic! Valanna's Avatar
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    This guide is fair. Although I feel really bad for Kuni, who did (in my eyes) a much better guide, and this one got awarded with fancy prices. I feel with you, Kuni, hope people will refer to yours even though this is on the front page more.

  10. #30
    i have 2 things to add:

    1. To account for the twitchy gameplay you really should adjust the Custom Lag Tolerance (in Interface - Game - Combat) to something close to your usual latency.

    2. You don't need a macro for Freeze, you can just get it from your pet's spellbook like any other spell.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Forro View Post
    i have 2 things to add:

    1. To account for the twitchy gameplay you really should adjust the Custom Lag Tolerance (in Interface - Game - Combat) to something close to your usual latency.

    2. You don't need a macro for Freeze, you can just get it from your pet's spellbook like any other spell.
    Alternatively, you an just keybind the spell on your pet bar. Works just as well as anything else.

    I do however have a nifty macro for mine, I'll try to post it when I next log on to WoW.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by nerfproof View Post
    Ok so to me, atleast, the spec you posted is broken. Speccing into Ice Shards is pointless because you are never going to use Blizzard on trash pulls, since we will do more dmg doing single target, and also because since IL is going to have to same range as all of your other spells you dont need the additional 5 yards. On trash your going to use RoF and FFO to gain FoF procs for IL and FFB spamming. In my personal opinion http://www.wowhead.com/talent#o0hZfM...szMo:aMmMqk0oM is the spec you should be using for raids. Also taking the FFB glyph over IL is a dps loss. You are going to be spamming IL alot more on FoF procs than you will FFB when BF procs. The FFB glyph is a high priority glyph for Fire...not frost.

    1. Ice Shards can be useful on fights where you need to quickly aoe adds down (like magmaw) and get free FoF procs. Its situational/debatable but it's better then the places you spent those 2 points instead.

    2. In your spec you spend 3 points in Netherwind Presence and only 2 in Ignite even though it's mentioned in this guide that the opposite is more dps (and confirmed by many other sources) because of the huge crits of FFB.

    3. FFB glyph is way more dps increase than IL glyph. You will ONLY be casting IL on the move or on 2charge/expiring FoF procs. Also, IL crits for ~25k+ and FFB crits for ~40k+++ PLUS the huge ignite dot it leaves.
    Last edited by boinga; 2011-01-02 at 05:31 PM.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Notix View Post
    I have tested on my mage... In PvP gear, i have 15.53% mastery, I cast Ice lance and crits 16k on dummy while FoF is active.. And when I cast ice lance on the dummy while it is frozen (not FoF), i crit almost 20k.
    That's called "RNG".
    The mastery works.

  14. #34
    Very well written guide Karrok. It was joy reading it.
    "There's a difference between us. You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom. And I go to make sure that they have it."
    - William Wallace

  15. #35
    For spirit being useless am I delusional or did i not read somewhere that in Cata that mages get 1:1 conversion of spirit into hit as well too

  16. #36
    Frost dps ilvl356 gear >>> fire dps in that same gear

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by mayzy View Post
    For spirit being useless am I delusional or did i not read somewhere that in Cata that mages get 1:1 conversion of spirit into hit as well too
    Afraid you're delusional.
    Only classes that have healing offspecs get that talent. It exists just to allow them to keep their healing gear in DPS spec.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaplaceNoMa View Post
    Frost dps ilvl356 gear >>> fire dps in that same gear
    I play frost and I'd love to think so but unfortunately that's a load of bollocks.


    Frost is not the highest DPS spec, but you shouldn't need it to be to justify using it in a raid.
    It's still pretty close and has a lot of survival tools, and if you know what you are doing as frost but not as fire then obviously you will do more damage.
    I raid as frost and occasionally outDPS the fire mage, but that's just because of luck or skill rather than because my spec is just better.
    Anyway with two mages and it's boring if we both go fire
    Last edited by Imnick; 2011-01-02 at 06:09 PM.

  18. #38
    This is an extremely good guide. So good that I had to make an account just to thank you for this help.

    Though just want to point out I didnt notice anywhere in your guide that frost is great for dps but is mostly based on RNG.

    Even with 33% crit chance it still bites me when my DF comes out without a crit, even ice lances does this.
    Most of the caster specs are RNG but this really suffers dmg wise if you end up with 2 DFs after eachother(cooldown and other dps while cd is up) and non of them crit. Even tho ive tried out frost maging on boss fights it can get amazing numbers like 17k dps but sometimes as low as 12k even if its 2 weeks with the same boss its a risky spec and use with caution.

  19. #39
    The Patient biolink22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haldurion View Post
    Fire is the best mage spec at the moment that only lags a few k behind the best single target classes, like Survival and Unholy DK. Frost is mediocre, but still a lot better than arcane.

    Welcome to Cataclysm.
    fixt unholy is several % ahead than frost currently

    OT awesome guide i planned on trying frost on my mage and i will be using this great job


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  20. #40

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