[Mage] The Ultimate Guide to Frost

[SyanideLS]

Learn your class. Don't go off some guide which may or may not be true. Everyone handles the class, let alone specc differently. Mastery is only good for if your target is always frozen. At a given notice your FOF can disappear in a heartbeat. Don't rely on a state like that... versus another stat which will give you better and longer results.

Based off of your loose knowledge of math assosicated with the class, mastery does trump haste point for point as most of your big damage is done with instant casts under the effects of FoF, so I only have 1 thing to say to you.

You are wrong, you do PRE POT fights because it adds to you TWO deepfreezes and TWO FFO in the begining rotation so you have another pot when DF is off of CD again.

Furthermore, you pop your coldsnap at the begining of a fight for two reasons, DF #3 is off CD faster, and there is a SIGNIFICANTLY higher chance that your trinkets are both up in the first ~12 seconds.
Also not sure if "Because a person needs to do their own research on their class. And needs to look upon.
other top ranking mages and compare themselves." was arrogance or stupidity.

TOP MAGES normally get fed buffs such as innervates, dark pacts, power infusion, the list goes
Don't bash people when you are the one that is wrong, and don't spread misinformation.
All in all, if you base your info off of the top mage on WOL, you sir are in extreme error.

[Epsilon]

Wow, great guide! I dont have a max lvl frost mage, but when i do, i will use this guide! After i read this guide i respecced, and i seemed to be doing a bit better! Tyvm.

[Swizzle]

Kinda think people need to relax a bit here. Frost is the 2nd highest DPS spec a mage has, right behind Fire, not like in previous expansions where it was awful (screw you Frostbolt weaving in T5). Yes, the guide has some mistakes, but it doesn't mean that it should be discredited. Ice Lance is the lowest priority instant cast a Frost Mage has in PvP (Deep Freeze-->FFB Orb-->BF FFB all precede it on FoF priority), no it doesn't do the majority of your damage, and no it doesn't crit for more than 15-20k on a full resilience target (not including random BG procs like Berserker and AW being spellstolen).

Relax...it's 2011.

[Yondame]

Based off of your loose knowledge of math assosicated with the class, mastery does trump haste point for point as most of your big damage is done with instant casts under the effects of FoF, so I only have 1 thing to say to you.

You are wrong, you do PRE POT fights because it adds to you TWO deepfreezes and TWO FFO in the begining rotation so you have another pot when DF is off of CD again.

Furthermore, you pop your coldsnap at the begining of a fight for two reasons, DF #3 is off CD faster, and there is a SIGNIFICANTLY higher chance that your trinkets are both up in the first ~12 seconds.
Also not sure if "Because a person needs to do their own research on their class. And needs to look upon.
other top ranking mages and compare themselves." was arrogance or stupidity.

TOP MAGES normally get fed buffs such as innervates, dark pacts, power infusion, the list goes
Don't bash people when you are the one that is wrong, and don't spread misinformation.
All in all, if you base your info off of the top mage on WOL, you sir are in extreme error.

I'm just lost for words in the stupidity I saw. i guess that makes the difference between you and me and me knowing I can and will beat you in any raid encounter by the knowledge you presented here. It also shows me how you lack in knowledge of the fights right now. Look me up when you down bosses and know how to play a mage.

[pyrostorm9001]

I'm just lost for words in the stupidity I saw. i guess that makes the difference between you and me and me knowing I can and will beat you in any raid encounter by the knowledge you presented here. It also shows me how you lack in knowledge of the fights right now. Look me up when you down bosses and know how to play a mage.

You sir are a jerk, in no way have your posts been constructive or added anything of value to what is in my opinion a great guide (a few tweaks needed but thats it). Perhaps instead of hijacking this guide why not write one of your own considering how amazing you are

[Yondame]

You sir are a jerk, in no way have your posts been constructive or added anything of value to what is in my opinion a great guide (a few tweaks needed but thats it). Perhaps instead of hijacking this guide why not write one of your own considering how amazing you are

Refer BACK to my first post in which said my guide to no guide. Know the basics of your class and go from there.

I'm a jerk because I don't sugar coat the fail. Nor do I sugar coat anything really. I tell it how it is. Don't like it, don't read and don't reply. If you can't take the data mined and given from my first post and see the better-ness of it. Then you are a lost cause as well.

Again don't like it, overlook it and move on.

[Swizzle]

Refer BACK to my first post in which said my guide to no guide. Know the basics of your class and go from there.

I'm a jerk because I don't sugar coat the fail. Nor do I sugar coat anything really. I tell it how it is. Don't like it, don't read and don't reply. If you can't take the data mined and given from my first post and see the better-ness of it. Then you are a lost cause as well.

Again don't like it, overlook it and move on.

You don't really want to start this, not on these forums anyway. Having looked through your logs, I can easily tell you are not playing a Frost Mage well. Many, MANY, wasted FoF procs (10+ per fight), CDs not used to the fullest (often not used each CD causing to them to be used less over the course of a fight than they could be), and odd damage distribution. You're also only close to the top on 33% of the fights you provided which is not a great measuring stick.

All in all, you don't want to start wars you can't win, bite off more than you can chew, or date a chick much hotter than you.

[squall14716]

I'm confused on the bit about Ignite and FFB. I'm aware that FFB can be either Fire or Frost damage, but does it deal Fire damage as its default to a target with no resistances?

Frostfire Bolt deals frostfire damage, it never does one or the other, and it benefits from any talents that deal with fire or frost spells. Pre-4.0, it benefited from both the frost talent for 200% crits, as well as ignite to give it essentially 280% crits. When you have ignite, a FFB crit will always proc ignite. Same thing for Frostfire Orb and the FFB dot as well.

[Imnick]

Refer BACK to my first post in which said my guide to no guide. Know the basics of your class and go from there.

I'm a jerk because I don't sugar coat the fail. Nor do I sugar coat anything really. I tell it how it is. Don't like it, don't read and don't reply. If you can't take the data mined and given from my first post and see the better-ness of it. Then you are a lost cause as well.

Again don't like it, overlook it and move on.

When you post some evidence for your ridiculous, nonsense claims (and no, anecdotal evidence about how you "totall owned that warlock on magmaw" doesn't count) I will believe you.
Until then I implore everyone to listen to this useful guide, which tells you exactly what to do to get the best out of your frost mage, and ignore the trolls spreading misinformation for no reason at all.

[Carline]

1.) frost pve can't contend with the other specs, no matter how long it may take you to go oom.
2.) your 2 pet macro's arn't that great

these are what i have been using since quite some time before cata came out.


Frostbolt / petbolt
#showtooltip Frostbolt
/petattack [target=pettarget,noexists]
/cast [harm] [target=targettarget] Frostbolt

~ what does it do? if your pet has no target, he will attack the one you are on. say you have multiple targets, your pet will stay on the designated one until it dies.
Also!!! if you are targeting a friendly(such as a tank) you will attack his target through him, the target of target.

Summon pet /Petnova(201 character macro)
#showtooltip [@pet,nodead,exists]Freeze;Summon Water Elemental
/cast [nopet] Summon Water Elemental
/cast [@pet,dead] Summon Water Elemental
/stopmacro [@pet,dead]
/cast Freeze
/petpassive
/petattack

~ tries to summon your pet if you don't have one out(it will say that you have no pet if you are mounted, which can waste the CD if you hit it too ealrly. then it will use the nova(and also show the nova CD while the pet is active). it will ensure your pet is passive at ALL times. and remember how the frost bolt macro will leave your pet on its first target, this macro lets you change your pets target with ease.
~ it checks for dead, because in early wotlk arena, a dead water elemental would remain for some time. and this made it difficult for most pet macros to work, since you still "had a pet out"

these 2 macros work great together for being able to solo.
1.) set the pet to attack a mob or even old content raid boss(midnight in kara or anzu in sethekk). stand idle to ensure your pet holds aggro for as long as you would like.
2.) when your pet gets to around 40% health or something close, use the pet nova, then DF and lance until you have no FoF or DF wears off.
3.) you pull aggro, and heal your pet to full. in the case of kara, as soon as the huntsman comes out, you can send your pet on him, and you focus midnight.
4.) just kill the boss by whatever means.

thx for the macros man, i used to use similar ones but didn't have them anymore and thought i'd have to write/search for them again (since my pet is driving me crazy from time to time)

though to your last paragraph... you could just let your pet attack the mob/boss/whatever, pop MI, burst as hell, invis 3 sek before MI expire and have your pet tank the mob/boss/whatever happily ever after ...

[Sichas]

Alright, been looking everywhere since reading this guide, what the heck is Volcanic Portion?.

[Nibbin]

Great beginners guide for new mages. Keep up the good work.

[Karrok]

Dear Karrok. I could be wrong, but is this armory you: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../karrok/simple

Yup, shore is

If so... you are 9% under hit cap. Your gear is completely weak from my stand point. I know these guides are for contests on MMO champ.. but saddly it's misleading to the community. And I say that with great disgust to your knowledge of frost mage.

My guild doesn't raid yet. I'm capped for heroics, and I reforge as much excess hit as possible so I can do well in said heroics. The fact that you didn't realize this is what I am doing, especially when many others are doing the same, makes you look rather ignorant right off the bat. But I'll bite.

I've played a mage now since closed beta of original WoW. And frost mage has had a history of raiding. It was one of the best raiding speccs back in original. BC it was the best specc to start out with especially with fires nerfs that got handed to it after naxx. Where fire was only great for there. Rolling ignites. Bc kept going up and down on frost, but kept being a contender in raiding. WOLK frost yet again was good as a starter but quickly was surpassed by fire until uld, where it was optional for most, but needed for some. TOC frost was needed part time as well. Then arcane came in and has carried thru ICC until cata where frost right now for progression stand points is the best raiding specc until you get the gear for fire.

Paragraph pulled directly out of rectal cavity. Frost was the "best spec" in all of one-and-a-half raids in vanilla. Frost was gross in T6 content. Arcane was the go-to build in early Wrath due to AM clipping. Frost was "needed" for a single hardmode. Frost was never needed in toc. You missed fire being better than arcane in late ICC. And you missed simulationcraft, as well as WoL, putting fire above frost in current raiding. Your credibility has plummeted further.

Mastery is not tied for the 2nd best stat. Mastery by common sense alone is actually the worst. Much like it is for fire.

Common sense doesn't dictate exactly how each stat factors into a given spec's dps, but regardless, who said mastery was 2nd best?

Also on the mastery note. when I first hit 85 had more mastery then I knew what to do with... I've still got mastery thats been forced upon me by blizzard who goes "its optional fun stat" BS. Mastery is fun if a target is frozen or in a deep freeze. Aside from that... if you are planning to MAXIMIZE your dps/dmg.. you use deep freeze whenever its up. You also HAVE to use FFB orb whenever its up. Why? It plays into ignite, as well as giving FOF proccs.

What does this have to do with anything?

As for starting the fight with that rotation? Potions shouldn't be used right off the bat.. especially in that HORRIBLE rotation listed. I looked at it and saw already 10 secs wasted and thats not counting GCD's. By the time you even use any attacks to benefit your dps.. the pots got maybe 5 seconds left?

Double potting has been around forever, is widely known among actual top players, and shows no signs of being 'fixed'. Deep Freeze and FFO have extremely high spell damage coefficients. Therefore it is best to use a volcanic potion when you're using two of each back to back, before combat, so you get another potion a couple minutes later.

Pretty much a good player is a good one.. and a bad one will listen to this guide. I wonder why MMOchamp didn't go to someone of knowledge about this before going ahead and posting this was a decent guide. Honestly scrapping alittle bit from Elitistjerks woulda been better then this guide. Even rawr lists mastery low.

What, were you expecting them to go to someone like you?

There is no real "guide" for frost. No real guide for any class IMHO. Because a person needs to do their own research on their class. And needs to look up other top ranking mages and compare themselves. If a fight lasts such and such time.. you need to use your cold snap at the right time. Pop it to late, you lose an incredible amount of dps.. Pop it to early and get the same result.

Hilarity. You attack random points of my guide without base, call yourself a 'top mage' when you clearly have no business in any sort of real progression without knowing what double potting is, and you lack the foresight to realize when someone is hit capping themselves for heroics. Here's a tip, buddy: The people who actually know the most about mages by far (extra credit if you can give me a single one of their names) also play in unorthodox ways, confine themselves to one spec, or simply don't raid either. But they know that this game is built upon math, and they deconstruct it to explore the mechanics of the game and create things like Rawr and Simulationcraft as tools to be used by the community. What are you doing, hotshot?

Learn your class. Don't go off some guide which may or may not be true. Everyone handles the class, let alone specc differently. Mastery is only good for if your target is always frozen. At a given notice your FOF can disappear in a heartbeat. Don't rely on a state like that... versus another stat which will give you better and longer results.

In short, you're a galactic failure of a poster, offer no constructive criticism, spread false information, have zero credibility yourself, and have no compelling argument. In the words of EJ's mods, "Quit shitting up my thread."

[Töasty]

I'm going to get a beer and put some popcorn in the microwave, this is getting interesting. On topic though, do you think I have too much mastery and not enough haste? It appears there is still some argument regarding glyphs (I'm using molten, FFB, and deep freeze) and talent builds. I personally do not have mana issues very often in heroics (I'm sure this will change in raids), but the 6% chance to proc clearcasting seems to provide me with a little extra time before needing to evocate, how much time does 2% haste shave off of frostbolt, .04 seconds? With latency, it hardly seems worth the two points for frostbolt. Also, can anyone point me to a sig that actually updates as I change gear, this one is wrong.

[Swizzle]

Haste not only increases the rate at which you cast spells, it also reduces your GCD down to a minimum of 1 second. Basically, haste effects instant cast spells almost as much as it does cast-time spells, up to a point. Other than that, a Volcanic Portion is probably a typo for Volcanic Potion.

[Stoochpacknr]

Great work man way to put in some awesome effort this will sure help out a lot of people. Looks like people have a couple disputes but all in all I'm extremely impressed great work!

[Deleted]

Make Warlock Guide !!

[Monstercloud]

While I'm by no means a min-max player, there are some glaring issues.

First of all, your choice of glyphs. While I have no problem with DF or FFB, Frostbolt shouldn't be your third, at least starting out raiding. Molten armor is by far better than Frostbolt glyph, as it applies to all your spells, adding an extra 6% crit to your FoF'd and FoF/BF'd casts. You should only use frostbolt glyph when you have reached the soft crit cap. It's impossible to hit both hit and crit caps as your average beginning frost mage, assuming that's the core audience for this guide.

Secondly, your gem choices. I know it seems silly to nitpick, but why list X/Haste or X/Mastery as even a choice? Even if you were going for socket bonus as a beginning frost mage, your gem choices wouldn't differ, as again, it's impossible to hit both the crit and the hit cap at the same time. The only exception is the current chaotic meta gem requirements, when you can use crit/hit gem.

Finally, I don't know how many people asked you about a FFB spec as frost, but your wrong. For fire, yes, using FFB instead of Firebolt is comparable by a small margin, but that's fire, not frost. Several reasons for this...


A) With FFB glyph, you lose the ability to proc FoF with FFB. No chill effect, no FoF. (Untrune, thanks Kuni)

B) FFB casts significantly slower than FrB and costs a little under 500 more mana. In long endurance fights, or fights with alot of movement, which both are highly prevalent in all current raid instances, exclusively using FFB is a hindrance.

C) Early Frost (mostly trivial) and Piercing Chill becomes useless, and there's no other DPS increasing talents to take in their place. One is a minor DPS increase, and the other is great for proccing FoF in fights with adds near boss. There is no other offensive talent that even remotely makes up for the loss of both.

D) You're never going to worry about ignite munching, as like you said, FFB doesn't proc BF. Since FoF only applies to FFB if BF procs (**** Abbreviations), you won't be getting a comparable benefit of FoF at all if you were to use FFB instead of FrB as your primary nuke.

It may of been written well, but there is alot of misinformation to not warrant this as a winner for guides.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

A) With FFB glyph, you lose the ability to proc FoF with FFB. No chill effect, no FoF.

All true on a frost centered FFB spec, except for this. It'll still proc FoF much like glyph of frostbolt's old chill removal still allowed for it.

[Monstercloud]

Ah, never raided as frost in Wrath, so I didn't know. I guess that point doesn't really apply then

That aside, I'll rewrite my last point, as my overall reasoning still stands.