Spirit as Elemental

[Murkantilism]

As a resto shamman my thinking is this:

Said piece of gear is made for us, plain and simple. We don't have to reforge it, we don't have to spec into anything, we don't have to do anything special, its just for us.
Ele shammies however have to spec into a certain talent (Elemental Precision) to even have a leg to stand on when rolling on loot for healers. Because you have to spec into something and we don't, you should give the healer the loot. If you put those 3 points elsewhere you wouldn't get to roll on our gear.

[Tyrlite]

As a resto shamman my thinking is this:

Said piece of gear is made for us, plain and simple. We don't have to reforge it, we don't have to spec into anything, we don't have to do anything special, its just for us.
Ele shammies however have to spec into a certain talent (Elemental Precision) to even have a leg to stand on when rolling on loot for healers. Because you have to spec into something and we don't, you should give the healer the loot. If you put those 3 points elsewhere you wouldn't get to roll on our gear.

As an Ele shaman I would have to disagree, simply because you will have to reforge that gear if you any kind of resto shaman since mastery is terrible for your spec (from what I have read...). Also it's not like its something we can't spec into it is pretty much required, you and healers acting this way is just greedy.... the same way mages, locks, moonkins used to get mad and greedy back in the day when we rolled on cloth/leather, If we tried to find loot without spirit on it we would have a hard time getting geared... It is not your gear it is shaman gear.... Blizz made it this way on purpose accept it..

[Tixuz]

A resto shaman that wants Mastery, thats new xD

[SweetLou570]

To the original poster, your option is one of three:
1) People are stuck in the mentality of Vanilla, Burning Crusade and Wrath.
2) There may been a loot whoring issue with your healers, considering they did not have this issue in previous variations of this game.
3) Both.

In regards to an elemental shaman:
Spirit (Hit) is the most important stat provided you aren't hit capped.
Intellect is the second most important stat.
Mastery is the fourth most important stat.

The only way it could've been better is if it had Haste.

[Dedweight]

As a resto shamman my thinking is this:

Said piece of gear is made for us, plain and simple. We don't have to reforge it, we don't have to spec into anything, we don't have to do anything special, its just for us.
Ele shammies however have to spec into a certain talent (Elemental Precision) to even have a leg to stand on when rolling on loot for healers. Because you have to spec into something and we don't, you should give the healer the loot. If you put those 3 points elsewhere you wouldn't get to roll on our gear.

Would you feel the same way if the spirit>hit talent was given to the shaman for speccing elemental like the spirit>mp5 is for resto?

If it wasn't for Meditation spirit would be useless for Resto just like spirit would be useless for Elemental if it wasn't for the talent. Just because I have to spend 3 points to make spirit useable by me instead of one point like Resto does not give you any more right to the gear.

[Azrile]

I know this may be hard for the OP to grasp.. But lets make it simple. Pretend that for boomkin, shadow priests and elemental shamen, whenever an item has spirit on it, the UI magically deletes that spirit and adds it as ´hit´ on the bottom of the tooltip. Now ask if they should roll on that item?

There is no need to reforge the item. In almost all cases those specs will prefer spirit OVER hit because spirit has the slight added benefit of giving us out of combat regen on top of all the hit we will ever need.

Or think of it this way. If Elemental shaman can´t use mail with spirit, then Blizzard is going to drastically cut down on the amount of it that drops in dungeons ( ie.. 1 in 30 items). The more specs that can use an item, the more frequent it appears on drop tables.

[Dillybear]

so basically this is just another thread of healers assuming that they deserve gear on a priority above dps. also healers who are in a raid to see the boss drop loot clearly ALREADY have enough regen to survive the fight. they are only bitching because they want more so they can be lazier with their regen, plain and simple.

[Endus]

I have seen on EJ that Haste is infact greater than Mastery (would link but can't due to being a newish poster), I believe Binkenstien (spellcheck) once explained it as haste will always be there on every spell we cast as apposed to relying on Mastery which is completely RNG, and having more haste would theoretically allow for more mastery procs... Don't quote me though I am no theorycrafter....

I have quoted you. So there. Nyah.

This is basically correct. Haste reduces every spellcast, and thus it boosts every spell we have. Mastery boosts most of our spells, and definitely our most-used ones, but not all of them. Also, Haste indirectly makes what Mastery you have better; by reducing the cast times, you get more casts, which means more Mastery procs, on average. The converse is NOT true; stacking Mastery doesn't feed back and improve how much Haste you have.

One of my planned projects is trying to work out if there's any future breakpoints in this equation (that we'll reach; 100% Mastery is likely never going to be possible so theorycrafting past that is useless) and exactly where those breakpoints might lie. I haven't run the math on anything, but my gut feeling is that growing Intellect pools will continue to favor Haste for quite some time; the cast time reduction and thus the additional casts per minute you can fit in as a result will gain 100% benefit from your Intellect, whereas Mastery procs only do 75% damage and thus are getting a reduced benefit. Mastery will never be "bad", but I suspect haste will always be better until/unless they make some changes.

[Kidies]

As a resto shamman my thinking is this:

Said piece of gear is made for us, plain and simple. We don't have to reforge it, we don't have to spec into anything, we don't have to do anything special, its just for us.
Ele shammies however have to spec into a certain talent (Elemental Precision) to even have a leg to stand on when rolling on loot for healers. Because you have to spec into something and we don't, you should give the healer the loot. If you put those 3 points elsewhere you wouldn't get to roll on our gear.

So.......
As a restor shaman, you dont reforge mastery into haste, even crit is better since it provides certain mana regeneration through talents. And I'm dying to see how you put that 3 talent points "elsewhere".

[DarkSoul]

As a resto shamman my thinking is this:

Said piece of gear is made for us, plain and simple. We don't have to reforge it, we don't have to spec into anything, we don't have to do anything special, its just for us.
Ele shammies however have to spec into a certain talent (Elemental Precision) to even have a leg to stand on when rolling on loot for healers. Because you have to spec into something and we don't, you should give the healer the loot. If you put those 3 points elsewhere you wouldn't get to roll on our gear.

Alright, I'm not an accomplished Shaman yet, mine's level 31 at the moment, but do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound? Elemental Precision is in the Ele tree for the specific reason of allowing gear overlap in light of the consolidation of stats for Cataclysm. It could have just as easily been a 3 point talent in the resto tree that lets hit rating on your gear count as spirit with regard to mana regeneration. Then what right would you have to say anything about rolling on gear? Exactly; you'd have just as much right as an ele shaman does right now to roll on spirit gear. The loot's not "made for you" resto shamans. It's made for non-enhance shamans, deal with it or reroll.

Regarding the OP, considering your current guild uses DKP, I'm 90% sure the one that whispered you wanting you to pass them the item just wanted to get it without paying their full DKP bid. In my opinion, tell them to get bent and bring it up to the guild leadership about the attempts to twist the impartiality of the loot system. If nothing happens, I'd look for a new guild too, as several other people have said.

[Lplatehealer]

Uh those people are morons. After hit cap, mastery is our #1 stat on an ele shaman.

hit>haste>int>mastery>crit

---------- Post added 2010-12-31 at 03:31 PM ----------

As a resto shamman my thinking is this:

Said piece of gear is made for us, plain and simple. We don't have to reforge it, we don't have to spec into anything, we don't have to do anything special, its just for us.
Ele shammies however have to spec into a certain talent (Elemental Precision) to even have a leg to stand on when rolling on loot for healers. Because you have to spec into something and we don't, you should give the healer the loot. If you put those 3 points elsewhere you wouldn't get to roll on our gear.

as a resto shammy i strongly disagree. mastery SUCKS as resto so we would reforge to crit. also without the 3 oints talent it would be impossible to reach hit cap as ele. also blizz put that talent in on the sole reason that they didnt have t make 3 differant sets of ear for each class. if i lose a roll to a ele shammy i dont care as i know its an up for him too. some healers shouldnt be healers if they dont know all aspects of there class and their specs.

[Tyrlite]

hit>haste>int>mastery>crit

Hit(Spirt)>INT>Haste>Mastery>Crit, it has only been said 20 times in this thread alone why would you quote someone and tell them different?

[Sagemor]

Blizzard has flat out stated that as far as mail and leather caster items go there is no hit on it. Not even the tier set for ele has hit, it has spirit (even if only one 1 piece, the chest). IMO no, if you were not hit capped, or could reforge things so your excess wasnt wasted then you had every right to bid on it.

[flargen]

As a resto shamman my thinking is this:

Said piece of gear is made for us, plain and simple. We don't have to reforge it, we don't have to spec into anything, we don't have to do anything special, its just for us.
Ele shammies however have to spec into a certain talent (Elemental Precision) to even have a leg to stand on when rolling on loot for healers. Because you have to spec into something and we don't, you should give the healer the loot. If you put those 3 points elsewhere you wouldn't get to roll on our gear.

You obviously know jack shit about the class you play, which makes your post all the more hilarious.

Elemental Precision is a required talent for Elemental. Without it, it would be unrealistic to even consider being hit capped. Those 3 points are not optional, so nobody is poaching "your" gear by speccing into it. In short, you're an idiot.

[lungo]

Shouldn't we stay on tropic and discuss his issue instead of starting a stat-weight discussion?, yet again...

[Bergg]

All this over a piece of gear that is only desired by 2 specs in the game--a piece of gear that my guild has sharded 4+ times so far because of how often it drops.

[Deleted]

As a resto shamman my thinking is this:

Said piece of gear is made for us, plain and simple. We don't have to reforge it, we don't have to spec into anything, we don't have to do anything special, its just for us.
Ele shammies however have to spec into a certain talent (Elemental Precision) to even have a leg to stand on when rolling on loot for healers. Because you have to spec into something and we don't, you should give the healer the loot. If you put those 3 points elsewhere you wouldn't get to roll on our gear.

Find me a full Mail gearset without spirit that doesn't include Tier sets.

[Murkantilism]

First of all I never said anything about the resto Mastery in my post, I'm aware it sucks and anyone attacking me about the Mastery crap didn't read my post.

Secondly I'm no loot whore, I've shared gear with fellow healers who are dps specs in heroics all the time, but it pisses me off when idiots roll on gear that literally isn't for them, like Tyrlite who sees no problem rolling on cloth/leather gear. Blizzard puts in specific markers on gear to show which class and spec it is for. You don't see any other classes/specs rolling on their healing counterpart's gear nowadays, so why should Ele Shammies feel entitled to healing gear? One simple talent? Bullshit.

Third, meditation helps increase our Mp5 from Spirit, it doesn't solely make Spirit a viable stat for our class/spec like Elemental Precision does. (Not to mention Meditation is given to you once you click the "Resto" button, you don't put any points in it).

Lastly, if blizzard put in a Hit -> Spirit talent in the resto tree and something with hit drop, I would gladly pass on it for my Ele shammy friend who I always run with, because if the talent didn't exist I wouldn't get to roll on it. There have always been gear markers Blizzard uses to show who the piece is for, and the stat reductions Blizz implemented in this expansion doesn't change that fact.

In fact I say it's the ele shammies who are being loot whores. They are using one talent as an excuse to roll on an entire extra set of gear in addition to their own, whereas resto shammies don't get that privilege and have to deal with sharing their gear set with a dps class who all just want more loot faster. If Ele shammies had to deal with sharing loot with Resto if Blizz gave us a Hit -> Spirit talent all of the Ele's that posted in this thread would be singing a very different tune.

---------- Post added 2010-12-31 at 08:26 PM ----------

---------- Post added 2010-12-31 at 03:31 PM ----------


also blizz put that talent in on the sole reason that they didnt have t make 3 differant sets of ear for each class. if i lose a roll to a ele shammy i dont care as i know its an up for him too. some healers shouldnt be healers if they dont know all aspects of there class and their specs.

You clearly don't know all the aspects of your class, Blizzard made 3 SEPARATE sets of gear for Resto, Ele, and Enh, go check the Valorous Quartermaster. If they made the Ele/Resto gear the same piece then you might have an argument and clearly Blizz would want us to share gear, but that isn't so.

[Endus]

Secondly I'm no loot whore, I've shared gear with fellow healers who are dps specs in heroics all the time, but it pisses me off when idiots roll on gear that literally isn't for them, like Tyrlite who sees no problem rolling on cloth/leather gear. Blizzard puts in specific markers on gear to show which class and spec it is for. You don't see any other classes/specs rolling on their healing counterpart's gear nowadays, so why should Ele Shammies feel entitled to healing gear? One simple talent? Bullshit.

See, the problem is that you have the misbegotten idea that gear with Spirit is "resto gear". And that's false. It's just untrue. You're getting bent out of shape over a fiction that has no basis in reality. Spirit is an Elemental stat now. It really is that simple. Frankly, we're encouraged to use Spirit over Hit precisely because we're a hybrid class and Spirit is useful for both specs.

Third, meditation helps increase our Mp5 from Spirit, it doesn't solely make Spirit a viable stat for our class/spec like Elemental Precision does. (Not to mention Meditation is given to you once you click the "Resto" button, you don't put any points in it).

This is blatant hypocrisy. Your spec gives you in-combat mana regeneration via Meditation. Elemental's spec gives them hit rating via Elemental Precision. Both are based on Spirit, and are spec-specific.

That Meditation isn't a talent is irrelevant, since Elemental Precision is a talent every Elemental Shaman takes. By your same argument, I could say that the piece is obviously an Elemental piece, since it has Mastery, and Mastery is a good stat for Elemental and a bad stat for Resto.

I would be wrong, for the exact same reasons YOU are wrong. Because your entire founding premises are entirely off-kilter.

Lastly, if blizzard put in a Hit -> Spirit talent in the resto tree and something with hit drop, I would gladly pass on it for my Ele shammy friend who I always run with, because if the talent didn't exist I wouldn't get to roll on it. There have always been gear markers Blizzard uses to show who the piece is for, and the stat reductions Blizz implemented in this expansion doesn't change that fact.

That bit I put in bold is one of those basic premises you're assuming which has no basis in fact, and in fact was specifically counteracted in Cataclysm since gear was starting to trend that way. This is why they removed ArP and have made Spirit more widely useful. So that they didn't need to make gear for every individual spec, and gear could be shared across multiple specs/classes, so that each drop had more potential uses to the raid, rather than quickly becoming shard-fodder once the one person who could use it had it.

In fact I say it's the ele shammies who are being loot whores. They are using one talent as an excuse to roll on an entire extra set of gear in addition to their own

Another assumption that is simply incorrect. There is no "elemental gear set". It doesn't exist. If it did, by your argument, it would have Intellect and Hit Rating. Feel free to look through the cataclysm mail gear for items which have both. There are exactly two higher than ilvl 280. And they're part of the crafted PvP starter gear for elemental.

So, either there is no Elemental raid gear, or your entire assumption here is wrong. Guess which one's more likely?

You clearly don't know all the aspects of your class, Blizzard made 3 SEPARATE sets of gear for Resto, Ele, and Enh, go check the Valorous Quartermaster. If they made the Ele/Resto gear the same piece then you might have an argument and clearly Blizz would want us to share gear, but that isn't so.

Kilt of the Raging Elements

Huh, look at that. Elemental tier gear. Itemized specifically for us, and nobody else.

And it has Spirit.

And that's without even pointing out that these are tier sets, customized for each spec, which the regular raid loot, which we were discussing, is not.

Not only can Elemental Shaman use Spirit, it's on our tier set. It's clearly an Elemental stat.


If you actually have a relevant point to contribute to the discussion, by all means, do so. However, you're treading very close to the line of spreading deliberate misinformation on our boards, and that's unacceptable. I'll allow that you simply could have been grossly mistaken and hadn't bothered to look at the available gear or follow the changes being made to the class, and are still stuck in a WotLK mindset when it comes to Spirit, but it's time to move on.

[Kinettik]

are still stuck in a WotLK mindset when it comes to Spirit,

I agree with everything you said Endus, sans this one. Only reason being is that we didnt use Spirit in Wrath so he obviously cant be mistaken in thinking its a "Healer" stat since it never has been (For Shamans). I ask you to instead, look at all his other, albeit, very limited postings in these forums and you can see how misguided all his information has been.

Im no moderator, but people that can do nothing but spew false information arent people that need to be posting, just my opinion.