How to % increases to haste work?

[Stubb]

When I have JoTP(speed of light included) up I have 12% extra haste. Now does that increase my regular haste (10 %) to 22%? Or does it just increase my haste rating by 12%?

Title should read "How do..."

[Prentice]

All haste modifiers are multiplicative. Judgements of the Pure has a multiplier of 1.09, Wrath of Air Totem has a multiplier of 1.05, and the haste from your gear has a multiplier of 1.XX (where XX equals your haste percentage. If I recall correctly, the haste rating required to gain 1% haste is 128. Therefore you can divide your haste rating by 128 and insert that value for the XX's.

Here's mine for example:
My haste rating: 1942
1942/128= 15.17% haste
3.6 (weapon speed) / 1.09 / 1.05 / 1.1517 = 2.7311sec swing speed

Without JotP and WoA
3.6 / 1.1517 = 3.1258sec swing speed

If you go look at my armory, you will see that my displayed swing speed is 3.13 seconds. Spot on.

When I have JoTP(speed of light included) up I have 12% extra haste. Now does that increase my regular haste (10 %) to 22%? Or does it just increase my haste rating by 12%?

Title should read "How do..."

I wasn't thinking about it in a casting sense, but it applies the same way.

Base spell cast time / 1.09 / 1.05 / 1.XX =
Another example for my setup.
Assume I am spec'd into Speed of Light (1.03)
Holy Light base cast time = 3.0 sec
3.0 sec / 1.09 / 1.03 / 1.05 / 1.1517= 2.2096 sec HL cast time without any other factors

If you wanted to know your full exact hasted percentage you would simply multiply all of the modifiers together.

1.09 x 1.05 x 1.03 x 1.XX = Total Hasted Value

[Laurabelle]

For answer to the OP's question, Prentice's explanation is valid and it should be read.


However, I seek to try and answer a different (related) question, that of: which is superior? crit or haste?



Suppose we reduce the crit vs haste problem down to the simplest possible version.

One in which we either had X amount of haste and zero crit or Y amount of crit and zero haste.

Further, we consider only white swings and ignore all other class mechanics.


So we need to define some basic variables:

Let:

B = base weapon damage (we will assume it is fixed to only one number rather than a ranged value)
C = base weapon crit damage (we will assume C is always equal to 2B)
D = duration of the test (this is necessary if we want to eliminate "partial" swings)
S = base weapon speed


X = amount of haste (assume 0% crit)


Y = amount of crit (assume 0% haste)


Then,

Total Average Damage (X) = floor(D / (S - S*X/100)) * B

and

Total Average Damage (Y) = floor(D/S) * (Y*C+(100-Y)*B)/100

So if,

B = 100
C = 200
D = 300
S = 4

X = 15

Y = 15


Then,

Total Average Damage (X) = floor(300 / (4 - 4*15/100)) * 100 = 8800

Total Average Damage (Y) = floor(300/4) * (15*200+(100-15)*100)/100 = 8625


For X = [1..50] and Y = [1..50]:

Amt (%)	Haste (X) Crit (Y)
1	7500	7575
2	7600	7650
3	7700	7725
4	7800	7800
5	7800	7875
6	7900	7950
7	8000	8025
8	8100	8100
9	8200	8175
10	8300	8250
11	8400	8325
12	8500	8400
13	8600	8475
14	8700	8550
15	8800	8625
16	8900	8700
17	9000	8775
18	9100	8850
19	9200	8925
20	9300	9000
21	9400	9075
22	9600	9150
23	9700	9225
24	9800	9300
25	10000	9375
26	10100	9450
27	10200	9525
28	10400	9600
29	10500	9675
30	10700	9750
31	10800	9825
32	11000	9900
33	11100	9975
34	11300	10050
35	11500	10125
36	11700	10200
37	11900	10275
38	12000	10350
39	12200	10425
40	12500	10500
41	12700	10575
42	12900	10650
43	13100	10725
44	13300	10800
45	13600	10875
46	13800	10950
47	14100	11025
48	14400	11100
49	14700	11175
50	15000	11250

Seems to me at least over a 300sec fight (5 minutes) where all white swings hit, that for the purposes of white swing avg. dmg, haste eventually far surpases crit at higher levels however before that 9% mark it seems crit is superior.

However, to include all the other mechanics (AoW procs, etc. al) would require a more complicated model. Also, it's more likely you'll balance these stats rather than going for say 25% haste and 0% crit (doubt that would even be possible).

[Stubb]

So, If I had 15.17% haste just from gear, if I'm spec'd speed of light, keep jotp up and have shammy in group, my haste would jump up to 35.77%?

That's more that double... That's weird. I figured it would be just a hard % increase or your rating increased by a percentage.

Stubb

[Prentice]

So, If I had 15.17% haste just from gear, if I'm spec'd speed of light, keep jotp up and have shammy in group, my haste would jump up to 35.77%?

That's more that double... That's weird. I figured it would be just a hard % increase or your rating increased by a percentage.

Stubb

I just ran the numbers you suggested and came up with the exact same percentage. It looks right to me, but if you want someone to double-check the math, I'd drag that Badpaladin guy in here. He should be able to verify it.

[Badpaladin]

I just ran the numbers you suggested and came up with the exact same percentage. It looks right to me, but if you want someone to double-check the math, I'd drag that Badpaladin guy in here. He should be able to verify it.

Is it bad that I don't even know what Speed of Light is in WoW terms? I had to google this shit. Looks okay.

Just have to keep in mind, doubling your haste doesn't directly translate to doubling your cast time, so that's probably why it looks "off".

[Stubb]

One more question : ).

My haste rating is 1214.

Ok so the modifiers for my haste % just with my JoTP and Speed of Light are 1.0948 * 1.09 * 1.03 = 23.5% all together.

Now I have a trinket that's proc's 1290 haste. Once it proc's, it is calculated like so?

(1214 + 1290) / 128 = 19.6% -> 1.196 * 1.09 * 1.03 = 34.27% haste once the trinket pops?

Thanks for the help : ),

also,

The percentage that shows in the character stats window, does that include the 3% passive haste you get from Speed of Light or is it just the haste from gear?



Stubb

[Deleted]

I would assume by the fact it is being included in your calculation seperate (1.03) it is not included within the haste shown in the character screen.

[Prentice]

Stubb, your math looks correct for both scenarios (with/without trinket proc). As for the stat window, I can't tell you for certain. Historically only the haste from your gear was reflected on the character sheet. You can easily run the math yourself to see if the new battle.net armory is showing the talent or not though.

I don't have any talents increasing base haste (JotP requires me to judge). As such I only see the haste rating from gear on my character sheet and as I showed early, its dead on.

[Deleted]

I just checked. The haste shown is ONLY the haste from gear. It does not include any passive buffs through talents or other buffs you would find in a typical raid.

[Stubb]

Sweet, Thanks again for all the help : ).

[texaport]

Just have to keep in mind, doubling your haste doesn't directly translate to doubling your cast time, so that's probably why it looks "off".

If doubling your haste doubled your casting time we'd all avoid it like the plague :-)