[Idea] New feral cat mastery

[Tradu]

Let me start off by saying that I agree that ferals are kinda OP atm, and I think that a flat bleed increase is boring.
Blizzard simplified the priorities a lot, and I'd like to see a mastery that makes for a harder playstyle.

Passive for being feral:
Every tick of Rake and Rip gives 1 stack of a buff that stacks up to 20 times, with a 1 sec internal CD(to ensure it doesn't happen too often) and maybe 10-15 sec duration. When it reaches 20 stacks, they are consumed by the next Claw(yes, I did just say Claw) used, and empower it to do 400% weapon damage(arbitrary number, can be changed to whatever to balance it) and makes the enemy bleed for 100% of weapon damage(another arbitrary number, change to something thats balanced) over say, 15-20 seconds.

Cat mastery:
Increases the % of weapon damage done by the Claw bleed by x% per point of mastery.

Yes, this is a flat bleed increase, but the passive makes for a more interesting playstyle, with another attack that goes into the rotation/prio list every 20-25-ish sec.


Does this sound OP? I mostly play PvE, but the long ramp up for this bleed should also make it pretty balanced in PvP, because you deserve to be punished if you let a cat get to you, and let it stay there for long.

Checking back as soon as I've had a few hours sleep.

[Punasilmä]

I'm not an expert but i don't like it.. Sorry /sadface

[Andaja]

If it was free, I'd think about it, but now, just make something hit or bleed harder...

[Tommy2er]

No thanks.

[kliffharry]

I'd like something like;

Rake and rip has a % chance to proc Improved Shred (boring name, but cba coming up with something right now). Improved Shred makes your next successful Shred do an additional 100% damage and has no positional requirement. Lasts until used or leaving combat (ravage + improved shred would be crazy for opener in pvp)

Mastery could increase proc chance or both proc and damage.

This would be awesome for fights where you have to stack up in front of the boss because of the incredibly overused damage sharing mechanic

[Abolishment]

Terrible. Feral doesn't:

Need another button to push.
Need more ramp-up time.
Need more buffs to watch for.

Feral does:

Need competitive damage.
Need active damage.
Need their damage spread around.

The mastery itself isn't the problem. It's the fact that Bleeds make up so much of our damage, and thus Agility and Mastery are all we want/need.

When I'm still swinging for triple digit (hits), but my bleeds are pushing five digits passively, there's a problem. When I'm balanced around doing one 15k Shred every 4 seconds, a bit of passive/background/DoT, and everything else is tiny, there's a big problem. When I find a class without heals (read: Hunter), I can Tiger's Fury a 5-point Rip+Rake onto them, and know they are going to die without a healer so I'm free to LoS them for 15 seconds until they fall over.

Our DPS is fine. Our damage is a little unavoidably much in PvP, and it's silly to know I can kill anything wearing Cloth during the first half of Berserk (save Iceblock stalling). The way to balance us, in my opinion is:

Reduce mastery gain per point.
Greatly increase white damage. Possibly change Savage Roar back to all damage.

I don't mind doing 10k DPS in PvP. Lots of classes can do that. But when I'm getting kited as a melee and my DPS only falls to 8k, that's the problem. I should have to be in someone's face to make them fall over. That can be done with a simple damage shift.

[Aernath]

First, I'm sorry but I'm against this kind of thinking, so please no! This is the same logic which ruined retri pallies and I'm so afraid gc may read and like this... very possible!

The best possible outcome for feral should be something very similar to muti rogues imho. Not focused on poisons but bleeds instead, so there has to be a bleed damage, put even maybe by not "primal claw" but mangle or shred, but compared to the bleeds of rake and rip it should be minimal, or when totalised with those it should be the same number ticking now, also to apply it faster and not to use too much time, a mechanic like expose armor may be used, it can easily be added to cat talents.

If willing to extend PvP also may have more viability by focusing some talents on like maim or charge, just polished versions of existing ones with the sacrifice of pure dps talents ofc. hence there can be a damage-utility-surviveability option may be open for ferals for them to choose what they want how they want to play.

[Elunedra]

this would make the rotation more complicated and i know a lot of kitty's love complicated roation.s but keepnig my bleeds up and savage raor is enough for me atm :P if i also have to check my stats its getting confused

[Tradu]

Terrible. Feral doesn't:

Need another button to push.
Need more ramp-up time.
Need more buffs to watch for.

Feral does:

Need competitive damage.
Need active damage.
Need their damage spread around.

The mastery itself isn't the problem. It's the fact that Bleeds make up so much of our damage, and thus Agility and Mastery are all we want/need.

When I'm still swinging for triple digit (hits), but my bleeds are pushing five digits passively, there's a problem. When I'm balanced around doing one 15k Shred every 4 seconds, a bit of passive/background/DoT, and everything else is tiny, there's a big problem. When I find a class without heals (read: Hunter), I can Tiger's Fury a 5-point Rip+Rake onto them, and know they are going to die without a healer so I'm free to LoS them for 15 seconds until they fall over.

Our DPS is fine. Our damage is a little unavoidably much in PvP, and it's silly to know I can kill anything wearing Cloth during the first half of Berserk (save Iceblock stalling). The way to balance us, in my opinion is:

Reduce mastery gain per point.
Greatly increase white damage. Possibly change Savage Roar back to all damage.

I don't mind doing 10k DPS in PvP. Lots of classes can do that. But when I'm getting kited as a melee and my DPS only falls to 8k, that's the problem. I should have to be in someone's face to make them fall over. That can be done with a simple damage shift.

As I see it right now, feral DPS is pretty competitive, at least for me in my guild(no raids yet, mind you).

Well, the fact that bleeds/DoTs make up for so much of our damage doesn't seem to be an issue with shadow priests and (affliction) warlocks, so that point is kinda moot imo.

It could be moved from Claw to something like Mangle, but that wouldn't really make the rotation much harder, as we(usually) have to push that anyway, not often, but we do.
I added the long ramp up because otherwise it would have to be used too often, and that would possibly screw the whole priority list/rotation up(because right now, it feels like I can keep both finishers and rake up with ease, but just adding 1 more frequently used ability might change that a lot).

Another idea I had was a kind of Ignite-like effect from one or more of our attacks, but that would be another thing thats kinda boring, in my opinion.

I don't see any reason to move more damage to white hits, and take it away from bleeds, because that would make mistakes way less costly, and I like the fact that spending combos on the wrong thing screws up my DPS for a good 20 seconds before everything is up again, thats the kind of challenge I'd like, and I think there are many other PvE cats that think the same.
As I said, I can't really see this from a PvP perspective, because I don't play much PvP, and the small amount I did play was dominated by affliction locks and shadow priests just dotting everything in sight and then moving away to find new victims.

If it was free, I'd think about it, but now, just make something hit or bleed harder...

I was under the impression that mastery should be a "fun" stat to get, changing something in the rotation/priority list, not just another flat damage increase. Maybe this idea isn't as great, but the current one is boring, and everybody QQs about it(I understand that, we can get our bleeds up to crazy numbers atm).

---------- Post added 2010-12-30 at 09:55 AM ----------

First, I'm sorry but I'm against this kind of thinking, so please no! This is the same logic which ruined retri pallies and I'm so afraid gc may read and like this... very possible!

The best possible outcome for feral should be something very similar to muti rogues imho. Not focused on poisons but bleeds instead, so there has to be a bleed damage, put even maybe by not "primal claw" but mangle or shred, but compared to the bleeds of rake and rip it should be minimal, or when totalised with those it should be the same number ticking now, also to apply it faster and not to use too much time, a mechanic like expose armor may be used, it can easily be added to cat talents.

If willing to extend PvP also may have more viability by focusing some talents on like maim or charge, just polished versions of existing ones with the sacrifice of pure dps talents ofc. hence there can be a damage-utility-surviveability option may be open for ferals for them to choose what they want how they want to play.

I thought the bad thing about rets was that their mastery was a pure RNG free attack that wasted any Holy Power they already had? This idea isn't very RNG-y, as far as I see it, and doesn't take any of your resources.

So, your suggestion is a finisher, that works almost like Rip? Or am I misunderstanding "like Expose Armor", because that is the rogue Sunder Armor-finisher, right?

[Andaja]

I was under the impression that mastery should be a "fun" stat to get, changing something in the rotation/priority list, not just another flat damage increase. Maybe this idea isn't as great, but the current one is boring, and everybody QQs about it(I understand that, we can get our bleeds up to crazy numbers atm).

Everybody is abig generalization. Not every feral in the world is using this exact, or any other forum so it really isn't.
Also adding new parts in already quite heavy (if I may say so) rotation isn't exactly the definition of fun to some of us.
If it was something like arcane mage, then by all means, add one, or even two, a what the hell, add three new parts in rotation, but i doubt ferals needs more buttons to press.
Besides, bigger numbers are fun, and if the actually do work, then by all means, why not.

[Cluasen]

Ferals dont need more added in the already quite complex rotation.. No thank you :/
I like my OP bleed dmg just the way they are

[Nienne]

I dunno, I sorta like it. :x

[Moistie]

Does this sound OP? I mostly play PvE, but the long ramp up for this bleed should also make it pretty balanced in PvP, because you deserve to be punished if you let a cat get to you, and let it stay there for long.

Checking back as soon as I've had a few hours sleep.

Cats are one of the hardest classes to peel in PvP. "...punished if you let a cat get to you and stay there for long" is kinda like saying "You should be punished for not outrunning that bullet."

[Tradu]

Cats are one of the hardest classes to peel in PvP. "...punished if you let a cat get to you and stay there for long" is kinda like saying "You should be punished for not outrunning that bullet."

More like saying "You should be punished for not getting into cover while that guy with an assault rifle is shooting at you". But yeah, very hard to peel us. But you should really be punished for letting a melee getting close to you, thats the whole point. What you're saying is kinda the same as "ArP is OP because it lets melee do something casters can do anyway(ignore armor and therefore hit hard)", imo.

[Doonarion]

Acctualy i like the idea... it would add more complexity to ferals. I think ferals arent as hard as they used to be... this would definetley give some new flavour into feral playstyle. And to the posts that say we dont need more bleeds etc. I think we do, the hole point of druids is to do bleeds I think nerfing bleeds would just "destroy" the point of feral kittys. Maybe a good idea would be to make bleeds more costly to apply or maybe to lower their duration.

[frejborg]

Hmm, takes 20-25 seconds to activate?, and only working once each time.. I don't like it.

I think the current mastery, makes a ton of sense. Many other masteries don't make much sense or just don't feel very powerful or worthwhile...

they already going to balance damage away from bleeds and into Strikes... nothing more is needed, no? Also Berserk nerf.

[Tradu]

Hmm, takes 20-25 seconds to activate?, and only working once each time.. I don't like it.

I think the current mastery, makes a ton of sense. Many other masteries don't make much sense or just don't feel very powerful or worthwhile...

they already going to balance damage away from bleeds and into Strikes... nothing more is needed, no? Also Berserk nerf.

Moving damage away from bleeds and into strikes is kinda against the point with feral druids, we are all about bleeds. Thats like making a shadow priest do more damage with direct spells than with DoTs.
When Blizzard first began introducing masteries, they were supposed to make up for the loss of passive talents, then they changed their mind and wanted to make them really change the feel of the rotation, and there are hardly any masteries that really do that, most of them are just passive "your main source/one of your main sources does x% more damage", which is really boring. The most fun ones as I see it(haven't looked at every single one) would be the shadow priest orbs, and then the MM and arms ones with extra auto attacks.

[Jon]

Ferals aren't OP in PvE.

The problem Blizz is facing is trying to balance us in PvP while still keeping us competive in PvE. Looking back at past examples, they're probably going to miss a few times more before they manage to get things right.

The simplest (and the best IMO) solution would be to have skills and spells just work differently against players and NPCs. That would end the eternal complaints of getting your class nerfed in PvE because of PvP, or vice versa... sadly Blizz seems to be against this solution.

[Tradu]

Ferals aren't OP in PvE.

The problem Blizz is facing is trying to balance us in PvP while still keeping us competive in PvE. Looking back at past examples, they're probably going to miss a few times more before they manage to get things right.

The simplest (and the best IMO) solution would be to have skills and spells just work differently against players and NPCs. That would end the eternal complaints of getting your class nerfed in PvE because of PvP, or vice versa... sadly Blizz seems to be against this solution.

I agree completely. But the point here is that the feral mastery is boring as hell, and I wanted to share an idea that could make it more interesting