Mutilate PvP Help.

[Scarfall]

Hello, world.

Let me introduce myself: I'm what you may call as a noob. Yes, I play Rogue (or try to), and no, I'm not very good at it (PvP).

I've always found a place for me in PvE content, I've never ventured out too far in PvP because all my attempts ended up with me being pwned. It was something I simply never got to learn how to play it properly. And I feel like today you can't really learn anything from PvP, since everyone in BGs seem to know their class pretty well, pwning you to oblivion.

I also have one negative thing about PvP, something that only happens in WoW, but not on any other game like Starcraft 2 or any FPS: I get nervous on PvP and mindlessly spam Mutilate and Envenon.

Also, whenever I try to do Arenas, I just follow my parterns orders, because I don't know by instinct, what to do first, who to attack first.

I've only dinged 85 two days ago.
eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/sylvanas/scarfall/simple (can't post direct links yet, due to forum rules)
So yes, crap gear is crap.

So, I have a few questions:
- In what situations should I use SnD in Assassination PvP, like many of you recommend?
- Recuperate seems to be a waste of CPs to me (me, the noob), I mean, it doesn't heal you that much, shouldn't I invest those CPs in something else?
- My main rotation (yes, a rotation in PvP, I know it's supposed to be situational, but I just don't know the situations) is: Garrote > Mutilate > Kidney Shot > Mutilate x2 > Expose Armor (or Rupture) > Mutilate x2 > Rupture (...or Expose Armor) > Envenom (never get to this part, when 1vs1 I'm dead by this point, or being kited, or the guy just has way too much health)
Any help on this one?
- How can I really learn PvP? Whenever I do BGs I always lose hard, doesn't give me much space for learning.
- One thing I liked once, was a post (which is now extinct) somewhere here that had a couple of golden rules, like "Never Evasion on a Warrior", or "If Assassination, use Envenom". Any more of those golden rules you might want to share?

Please help,
A noob Rogue.

[khatsoo]

My quick tips from my experience in Cataclysm so far would be:

- Always open with garrote (better if glyphed, for casters at least), forget always about Cheap Shot.
- Only use 5cp Kidney Shot, you get to use one stun now. Use it in its full potential.
- Always get rupture on the target, even if it's 1cp, the true damage you get from the bleeds comes from the procs of Venomous Wounds.
- Use Vendetta, use Cold Blood. You want to kill someone? Just use it and unleash all your potential, a 6 second stun with bleeds on and a 15-20k crit makes the other fear usually.
- All your "defensive" cooldowns are there to be used as well. Blind, Evasion, Combat Readiness, Dismantle, Vanish, etc.
- Also get the pvp gloves and kick, kick, kick! You don't even feel like you need energy to do it. And well, if you want to finnish a healer for example, plan your interrupts and silences. It's like you can kick, interrupt with blind, kick, Vanish-Garrote silence, kick.. healer dead.

[Evolixe]

My quick tips from my experience in Cataclysm so far would be:

- Always open with garrote (better if glyphed, for casters at least), forget always about Cheap Shot.
- Only use 5cp Kidney Shot, you get to use one stun now. Use it in its full potential.
- Always get rupture on the target, even if it's 1cp, the true damage you get from the bleeds comes from the procs of Venomous Wounds.
- Use Vendetta, use Cold Blood. You want to kill someone? Just use it and unleash all your potential, a 6 second stun with bleeds on and a 15-20k crit makes the other fear usually.
- All your "defensive" cooldowns are there to be used as well. Blind, Evasion, Combat Readiness, Dismantle, Vanish, etc.
- Also get the pvp gloves and kick, kick, kick! You don't even feel like you need energy to do it. And well, if you want to finnish a healer for example, plan your interrupts and silences. It's like you can kick, interrupt with blind, kick, Vanish-Garrote silence, kick.. healer dead.

Yeah... no. Cheap shot is still better vs other rogues and melee when they focus on you. However, if youre not being focussed on and the target isnt in danger of dying, then you can open with garrote on a melee. (DK's are an exception, always garrote those)

[Lixo]

Yeah... no. Cheap shot is still better vs other rogues and melee when they focus on you. However, if youre not being focussed on and the target isnt in danger of dying, then you can open with garrote on a melee. (DK's are an exception, always garrote those)

Yeah... no. How can they focus on you when you're stealthed waiting to Cheap Shot/use whatever opener?

[Evolixe]

Yeah... no. How can they focus on you when you're stealthed waiting to Cheap Shot/use whatever opener?

Vanish?

I was talking about an in-combat situation, and you should open with cheap on warrior at all time unless they are fighting someone that isnt in danger of death.

[Jackmoves]

Practise practise practise. Yeah you will get owned repeatidly but learn from your mistakes, think about what you could have done differently when at the spirit ress and take what you learned for when you find yourself in a similiar situation next time.

[romant]

play some bgs and even if you lose learn what skills and moves the other classes have and how you counter each one. Also just play enough to be situationaly aware and if you see your being focused you want recoup cycling through you.

[Deleted]

Garrote > Mutilate > Kidney Shot > Mutilate x2 > Expose Armor (or Rupture) > Mutilate x2 > Rupture

Don't use Expose Armor, as assass rogue you do poison DMG and it's not affected by armor in any way and don't improve skill it.
Your rota is good. Garotte -> Muti -> Kidney ( if not a mage) -> Muti -> Rupture -> Muti -> Envenom.
Use Vendetta + Trinket + Smokebomb and a stun inside of the smokebomb when the target is at or below 30%-35% and try to nuke him with Muti + Envenom. Don't waste your CPs on rupture at this point. If ge gets healed start over again.
This should work if you play with a healer ( sry not enough time to see what you are playing with). If you play 2xDDs you will be kited to your death and nothing can save you when you're muti specced

[kildal]

Tips? Play and play a lot. Key bind all your abilities and use ur cd's often to get used to it.

Watch buffs and debuffs on yourself and others, clean up your ui to make this easier.

In bg's you can pick your fights as a rogue, use this opportunity to find what you think is suited opponents, but don't get passive.

Knowing other classes standpoint is really important, this can be improved by dueling a lot, try to play other classes in pvp or read up on what they struggle with and how they play.

Mutilate is kind of slow pased so you don't have to smash your mutilates and envenoms, let your energy regen so you got that extra energy for a needed kick or a swap to someone else.

Using expose armor as mutilate is not neccesary, especially without the talent.

Don't ever give up. You're gear is lacking and most opponents will kill you in pvp, but for each death you might learn something new, don't just look at you combat log and see 3 icelances critting you for 20 k each and go whine on a forum.

Some tips for battlegrounds is stay with your group, zoom out your camera and get a good overview so you don't suddenly have an elemental shammy sneak up and nuke you while your struggling with that warrior you've been for a while. Keep in mind that if your target is low, you might be low too, not being over eager is also important.

Patience is key.

[Darkwingdan]

Never ignore Cheap shot. Always open on rogues with Cheap Shot, not garrote.

Can pretty much always garrote DK's/ret's. Cheap Shot on warriors is great as well. Sure it's on DR with Kidney but during the DR timer get slice N dice running, try force a trinket so u can kidney and Smoke bomb, get recup up etc

[Scarfall]

And here I was thinking I was going to get flamed with comments such as "roll another class" or "l2p".

Thank you for your constructive comments.

Regarding Recuperate, I don't know if you actually love it, or just being sarcastic, but I read a lot of players praising the new ability. To me it looks... mheh. I mean, I'm sure it matters a lot to you professional rogues but to a noob like me, I don't see the use of it. It seems like a small heal that wouldn't be necessary if I had used the CPs of Recup on another ability. So, at what situations do you use Recup. After a fight to be ready for a next one? As soon as one starts? Do you keep it up? How can I adapt it into my rotation?

Those questions apply to SnD as well.

[Noxina]

Recup is awesome because it heals you 50% over 30sec and gives you energy (If its talented) SnD speed up your melee haste - more poisen procs - more dmg.

[Froppy]

And here I was thinking I was going to get flamed with comments such as "roll another class" or "l2p".

Thank you for your constructive comments.

Regarding Recuperate, I don't know if you actually love it, or just being sarcastic, but I read a lot of players praising the new ability. To me it looks... mheh. I mean, I'm sure it matters a lot to you professional rogues but to a noob like me, I don't see the use of it. It seems like a small heal that wouldn't be necessary if I had used the CPs of Recup on another ability. So, at what situations do you use Recup. After a fight to be ready for a next one? As soon as one starts? Do you keep it up? How can I adapt it into my rotation?

Those questions apply to SnD as well.

Recup: Because of the huge duration (up to 30 seconds) you are healing a lot without having to do anything - So, a prime example is when you are being defensive or trying to not die (You said: when 1vs1 I'm dead by this point, or being kited, or the guy just has way too much health) - well, I'm guessing that means you haven't used Evasion and/or Combat Readiness... Think of it this way. If you are evading another rogue or a warrior and you have recup up, they are going to hit you occasionally, but for 10 seconds you won't get hit (evasion for instance). Well, since you have recup up, you aren't taking damage but you are gaining health, and it's a huge net benefit. It makes it very hard to kill a rogue who has recup up at all times. Sure, it's not going to save you against a foe who has 30k more health and 3000 more resilience than you. But, if it's against an evenly matched (rogue for instance who isn't using recup) player, you will win because you are mitigating damage (in pvp you should almost always take Imp Recup) and restoring some.

SnD: SnD is damage. If you don't have it, you should get Recount as an Addon. Then, when done with an Arena match or a BG take a look at your breakdown and see what did the most damage. It should be white damage. Well.. what improves white damage the most? SnD! So, although you aren't seeing bigger numbers because of SnD, it's a big damage increase. Well, there's some caveats to this... especially when you are talking PVP.. primarily in: If you aren't hitting someone, you aren't realizing SnD dmg increases. So, you have to play it by ear. If you have 10 seconds left on SnD but you feel like you're getting kited too much and aren't going to be able to get back on the target (say.. all their cc rotations are now back up) - don't refresh SnD, go for an Envenom. There's no hard and fast rule, but I would say if you are assassination you probably have the SnD refresher ability Cut to the Chase, which will refresh SnD with an Envenom.

Also.. one thing I just learned that I didn't realize... you can put poison on your throwing weapon! So, a trick that you can do... put wounding on your throwing weapon and fan of knives to get the 10% healing debuff... sure it's not a lot, but it can help. Also.. FoK is awesome for people kiting you. Since the range is 12 yrds, you can make it a lot more difficult for someone to kite you because the energy cost is only 35 and you can keep applying poisons on them (i.e. against a druid).

Finally, IMO a huge difference between good PVP'ers and bad ones are macros and keybindings. Look into macros (there's tons of resources) to make things easier for yourself.. and keybind everything! Don't use a mouse to click (you can, but I can gaurantee you it's slower than a keybind) and the faster your reaction time is, the better you will be.

[Scarfall]

Recup is awesome because it heals you 50% over 30sec and gives you energy (If its talented) SnD speed up your melee haste - more poisen procs - more dmg.

Recuperate heals 2% every 3 secs. Recup at 5CPs gives you 30 secs. That's a 2% heal 10 times. Means that at best, over half a minute, it heals you 20%, am I correct?

At what situations do you usually use Recuperate?

Is there a macro to Garrote and then apply SnD?

Should I use Evasion and Combat Rediness at the same time?

[Nartalath]

Pretty much as an assassination rogue, you're going to use every single one of your abilities- all the stuns, bleeds, and defensive cd's in your arsenal. It helps to read all the tooltips and figure out whether those abilities would be better to use when facing a caster, or a melee. Your primary path to victory is in controlling your opponent, and keeping them from healing themselves or damaging you. In the cases where they are able to damage you, make sure you have a defensive cd on hand to mitigate damage- evasion, disarm, and combat readiness against melee, cloak, feint, and smoke bomb against casters, etc. Blind and all your stuns are great, and remember you have a kick too!

People can give you tips all you want, but the best way to improve is by doing. When you fully understand the breadth of abilities available to you, you can make a plan, duel someone, and then look back at your plan and see what worked, and improve what didn't. When you have a plan in place, you tend to be more focused and make fewer mistakes.

Edit: I would personally not use evasion and CR together, combat readiness requires you to be hit in order to reduce damage, while evasion keeps you from getting hit altogether.

[Darkwingdan]

Recuperate heals 2% every 3 secs. Recup at 5CPs gives you 30 secs. That's a 2% heal 10 times. Means that at best, over half a minute, it heals you 20%, am I correct?

At what situations do you usually use Recuperate?

Is there a macro to Garrote and then apply SnD?

Should I use Evasion and Combat Rediness at the same time?

Remember if you talent it, its 4%, there's also the quickening talent as well!

WRT keeping using recup, as sub you want it up basically always for, besides the heal and dmg reduction if talented, it gives you 10 energy every 3 seconds from its talent in the sub tree. As Muti I generally use it when I sense they are going to switch on me, or if I want to counter some pre switch DOT's from a lock or w/e. When your left 1v1 in the arena you will want it up asap.

I generally keep combat readiness and evasion seperate, basically cause its then 2 defensive CD's instead of 1. For example if you want to get a rogue off of you, pop readiness and he will switch, theres no point of using evasion then. So it kind of depends on the situation.

[Deleted]

Tips with rogues:
- be very careful around other rogues. Never underestimate them either on defense or attack. Assume the fight will be about who has their CC and escapes up.
- make a mouseover macro for Sap and cast it 360 degrees around yourself if looking for a rogue. It's range is bigger than you think and you may just get lucky.
- on defense, most of the time don't waste your trinket on a Sap. Use it only if they manage to Kidney Shot you.
- on attack, open with Cheap Shot and be ready for them to trinket at any time.
- be fast+ready to Gouge them if they trinket but don't Vanish. This gives time for an extra Mut.
- if you get low on health, Blind them and heal up. Make sure you've forced them to waste a trinket before this ideally.

Also, Distract and its glyph is surprisingly useful. You can use it to effectively stop another rogue escaping by changing their direction back to you even if they've just hit Vanish. Or you can use it to stop someone eating and drinking without revealing yourself (its usable in stealth). You can even make someone on a mount or who is autorunning fall off a cliff. After they take large fall damage, you fall off and take none due to glyphed Safe Fall, finish them off and be on your merry way before they even noticed anything was wrong!