Arcane VS Fire

[Deleted]

I need your guys opinion on which is the better spec for raiding and dungeon groups I have tried both fire and arcane but Arcane seems better dps to me yet people are saying fire is better so which is the better in your opinion and reasons please much appreciated.

[Deselle]

I found with basic 333 and 346 gear that frost was best for me. Once i started picking up 359 gear i went back to arcane which is what i ran in Wrath and i am doing quite well with it. Mana is not much of an issue but haste seems a bit down but none the less i'm able to pull 20k + in raids without much of an issue. I'm slightly under hit cap of course but once i rearrange a few pieces of gear i received last night things will pull together fine. Only advice i can give is when it comes to arcane if you have lower end gear then only do AB x3 instead of the 4 and ALWAYS unload your AM proc for free damage with no mana cost. This way you continuously do damage with less mana usage and keep your Mastery Adept up and running as high as possible.

Good luck.

[Imnick]

Let's have a look here then.

Single target sustained DPS: Fire
Single target burst DPS: Arcane
AOE sustained DPS: Fire
AOE burst DPS: Fire
Movement: Fire
Survival: Fire
Utility: Fire (but 3% damage is not to be sniffed at)
Ease of Rotation: Arcane

Hope that helped

[Seefourdc]

Arcane can't even compete with frost right now which is behind fire. Blizzard has some fixes in the works but currently fire is head and shoulders above the crowd if you know what you are doing with character setup.

[Imnick]

Arcane can't even compete with frost right now which is behind fire. Blizzard has some fixes in the works but currently fire is head and shoulders above the crowd if you know what you are doing with character setup.

Arcane can compete with frost, it's lower but only by maybe 100 DPS.
While fire is maybe 2000 higher than frost.

Of course this is in a perfect situation with best in slot gear but it's still worth thinking about.

[Joobieo]

Arcane can compete with frost, it's lower but only by maybe 100 DPS.
While fire is maybe 2000 higher than frost.

Of course this is in a perfect situation with best in slot gear but it's still worth thinking about.

Also fire is big in the RNG department.

[Jawden]

Arcane can't even compete with frost right now which is behind fire. Blizzard has some fixes in the works but currently fire is head and shoulders above the crowd if you know what you are doing with character setup.

Frost tops fire, at least in my case. It's survivability is also higher and it's mana cost is much lower. As of right now frost IS the raiding spec.

[Zeflow]

Taking Chimaeron as example (10 man normal mode)

Highest Arcane: 13896

Highest Fire: 19886 (2nd 17339)

Highest Frost: 15925

Atramedes:

Highest Arcane: 12563

Highest Fire: 16351

Highest Frost: About 15450 (my own parse but not uploaded, playing replenishment spec)

This is the overall impression on all fights

Souce: worldoflogs

Conclusion: Fire is best, arcane is shit, frost for replenishment.

[Eace]

Also fire is big in the RNG department.

This is so true. If you get a nice Combustion rolling with some Hot Streaks here and there, you're gonna do some nice damage.

Frost tops fire, at least in my case. It's survivability is also higher and it's mana cost is much lower. As of right now frost IS the raiding spec.

For me, Fire mostly tops Frost. Though there are fights where Frost performs better - be it luck, or a boss mechanic (e.g. Beauty, where the tank keeps the boss so close to the CC'd pups that I can't use Living Bomb!). Frost's survivability indeed is better, and please don't even mention the mana department... I've ran OOM halfway through some heroic bosses, though I'm happy that I can at least keep spamming Scorch and throw some occasional Pyroblasts, too.

If you have a proper spec and rotation, you should do more dps as Fire.

[Zeflow]

This is so true. If you get a nice Combustion rolling with some Hot Streaks here and there, you're gonna do some nice damage.



For me, Fire mostly tops Frost. Though there are fights where Frost performs better - be it luck, or a boss mechanic (e.g. Beauty, where the tank keeps the boss so close to the CC'd pups that I can't use Living Bomb!). Frost's survivability indeed is better, and please don't even mention the mana department... I've ran OOM halfway through some heroic bosses, though I'm happy that I can at least keep spamming Scorch and throw some occasional Pyroblasts, too.

If you have a proper spec and rotation, you should do more dps as Fire.

Just dont let it explode?

[Eace]

Just dont let it explode?

I'm a bit sloppy and let it accidentally explode once. Needless to say, the party didn't like that much. Guess I'm just traumatized. Frost is simpler for that fight for my little hare brain. :x

[foodstamp]

if you're getting low dps with fire its probably because you need to reforge your gear for more crit and less mastery/haste... the rotation is a little more complicated too but once you master it you'll definately do more dps over arcane.

[gunner_recall]

Just dont let it explode?

But I like explosions D:

OT: I prefer fire over arcane at the moment, disregarding damage. Fire's rotation is a lot more RNGed based as opposed to arcane "I proc off of portals" barrage, but it's also a lot more fun to play than arcane.

About frost, it feels sort of like a middle-ground between the two, with decent damage and an easy rotation that's proc based. If I would recommend any spec, I'd say frost or fire but I would also say wait a little and see what buffs/nerfs they have planned before you make a decision.

[TheBigT]

Fire from what i see and play is the top one for longer fights, arcane is still up ther but you cant survive the 15 min fights like u used to beable to.

[Norgannon the Dreamweaver]

Let's have a look here then.

Single target sustained DPS: Fire
Single target burst DPS: Arcane
AOE sustained DPS: Fire
AOE burst DPS: Fire
Movement: Fire
Survival: Fire
Utility: Fire (but 3% damage is not to be sniffed at)
Ease of Rotation: Arcane

Hope that helped

Single Target Burst DPS sucks for arcane if the fight is long or short. Even on short fights arcane loses mana fast. And thought arcane might do more dps at the start, they will lose it dramaticly due to their mana loss, while fire and frost does not. Fire at the moment IS the best PVE spec for mages. Arcane is the OOM spec now, frost is even better then it. It gors like this. Fire > Frost > Arcane

[Lumocolor]

Taking Chimaeron as example (10 man normal mode)

Highest Arcane: 13896

Highest Fire: 19886 (2nd 17339)

Highest Frost: 15925

Atramedes:

Highest Arcane: 12563

Highest Fire: 16351

Highest Frost: About 15450 (my own parse but not uploaded, playing replenishment spec)

This is the overall impression on all fights

Souce: worldoflogs

Conclusion: Fire is best, arcane is shit, frost for replenishment.

This guy speaks the truth i have some top 25 man arcane parses on WOL and my overall damage is shitty as hell and tank like damage. The only reason i can play arcane is because we dont have a raiding ret pally for the 3% damage buff.

[Pasture]

As of right now frost IS the raiding spec.

Frost is significantly below Fire. It's not the raiding spec of choice.

[Deleted]

Frost tops fire, at least in my case.

What happens in "your case", whilst perhaps an interesting anecdote, is completely irrelevant. If you have some facts to present, do it. All respected simulations put fire significantly ahead, even on single targets. Add more targets and fire gets even better.

It's survivability is also higher

True, but Cauterize and the HP buff to casters has made this gap much much smaller since Wrath. Frost is slightly ahead in survivability, but a fire mage who plays properly will still have better survivability than other classes. It's a nice perk, but not a necessity.

and it's mana cost is much lower.

In other words "you don't have to bother worry about mana management". It's true, but that's what fire DPS is built around currently, managing DPS cycles so you can use your burn phases at the appropriate times. It's not really worth picking a lower DPS spec because you're too lazy to play one that requires more than just spamming a rotation and looking for procs.

As of right now frost IS the raiding spec.

Nonsense. It's viable, but nothing more.

[Imnick]

Single Target Burst DPS sucks for arcane if the fight is long or short. Even on short fights arcane loses mana fast. And thought arcane might do more dps at the start, they will lose it dramaticly due to their mana loss, while fire and frost does not. Fire at the moment IS the best PVE spec for mages. Arcane is the OOM spec now, frost is even better then it. It gors like this. Fire > Frost > Arcane

Just as a note, that highlighted bit is what burst means.
What you are saying is that their sustained DPS is lower, which is also what I said

[Roostor]

Taking Chimaeron as example (10 man normal mode)

Highest Arcane: 13896

Highest Fire: 19886 (2nd 17339)

Highest Frost: 15925

Atramedes:

Highest Arcane: 12563

Highest Fire: 16351

Highest Frost: About 15450 (my own parse but not uploaded, playing replenishment spec)

This is the overall impression on all fights

Souce: worldoflogs

Conclusion: Fire is best, arcane is shit, frost for replenishment.

I just stole the top Arcane parse for Chimaeron last night, and I did a slew of stupid things. I would wager that the large difference is more due to the fact that top-tier raiding mages are switching to Fire and not testing Arcane in high-end gear, so the parses that we see are people like myself in heroic+ ilvls, not raiding+ ilvls.

I'm not saying it would catch right up, but if I'm topping out parses on shitty first kills, then there's a large subset of players missing.

EDIT - Also, the OOM spec? That simply demonstrates a gross misunderstanding of how the spec is played.