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  1. #41
    Elemental Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by ipoststuff View Post
    Our silence is on a fairly shorter cd though and doesnt require us to spec into it. Yes warriors have it easy when it comes to dealing with casters(PvE). But most concerns about us having and additional interrupt is PvP based. PvP balance is holding our tank spec back /RAGE. And i can see the point.
    40sec cd HoJ + rebuke +15sec AS with GC procs = possibly OP.
    As opposed to a 30s CD CB which also does damage plus Shield Bash Plus heroic throw plus Spell reflect Plus Charge/etc?

    As it is, part of the problem you've highlighted is an issue also faced by Ret...the use of an AoE tool - in this case, Avenger Shield - in all rotations. There was little wrong with AS having a specialised use and be on an appropriately longer CD but Blizzrad seems reluctant to give Paladins the full toolkit the spec needs. AS is a good ability, but IMO it shouldn't be part of a standard rotation....the silence makes it ideal for caster pulls, and for specialised situational use whilst in combat. Its not something that should be tied into a proc mechanism....HoW would be a better fit there if that wasn't the classes execute move.

    Truth is, the class is hurt and held back more by the lack of offensive moves which forces Blizzard to overload the few that are available with secondary effects and limits the chocie of such abilities when they are needed to tie into various procs.

    EJL

  2. #42
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    If you severly reduced the damage part of avnegers shield, thus making it realy low on the priority order of filler. Change the grand crusader proc to proccing HoW (yes bit like sudden death in arms for execute)

    Then give us another strike ability, maybe something reactive from a block. (yes like revenge/rune strike are)

    You could then make avengers shield maybe ony 2 targets baseline, and give us a proper interupt.

    The strike + HoW proc gives us an actual decent reactive rotation not just a cs-shield-cs-judge-cs-wog repeat.


    (its late and im completely unimaginative)

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by dezzagod View Post
    i was thinking for example the first boss in ToT. I think her cast / CD time on her shock bolt is like 12 secs or so

    With decent gear you should be able to withstand one direct hit though, at least if you pop a cd.

    Most melee dps I meet while tanking are such ridiculous imbecils that I'm always topping interrupts, both as prot and as ret. 9/10 of the guys who are asked to interrupt Lady Naz'jar (and they always need to be specifically asked to because they are too dumb to do it otherwise) die on the first Vortex on the floor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tortillagirl View Post
    If You could then make avengers shield maybe ony 2 targets baseline, and give us a proper interupt.

    I would keep the shield as it is now, hitting 3 targets. The daze effect is ment to give the idiot CC more reaction time to cast their stuff. I'd settle with a nerfed version of Rebuke - interrupt even without spell school lockout would be nice, as the shield already gives us a little Silence effect.
    Last edited by mmocf7a456daa4; 2011-01-01 at 07:15 AM.

  4. #44
    Ok first:
    People talking about dk's not having an aoe taunt, when would a good tank ever need one? Oh whelps on halfus need to be picked up? use ur aoe, no good tank ever needs to rely on a aoe taunt, unless they died and got BR'd and if thats the case than someone already fucked up.

    When your at times forced to run a random with people who have no fucking clue how to kick (most people who have a kick just seem awful, sometimes i wana ask "is your interrupt even on your bar?") Your going to want a kick off the GCD thats not going to fuck with your rotation or cause downtime.

    Yes daze on AS was stupid in PVE and its only good purpose was for kiting or pvp, im glad they removed it from the base ability.
    Also someone before said AS was just a silence, which is wrong if the prot paladin is even remotely spec'd right, it functions as a interrupt as well.

    Make rebuke baseline (althou this could buff the already powerful pvp holy paladin, so maybe a new ability or change would be better.) and ill be a happy panda.
    Last edited by Cryblood; 2011-01-01 at 08:00 AM.
    Shoot whoever let 3.0 go live.

  5. #45
    When your at times forced to run a random with people who have no fucking clue how to kick (most people who have a kick just seem awful, sometimes i wana ask "is your interrupt even on your bar?") Your going to want a kick off the GCD thats not going to fuck with your rotation or cause downtime.
    Shifty argument. Because someone fails to do their job is not a viable reason to ask for an interrupt, otherwise we might start seeing DPS classes demand to be able to tank because sometimes the tank fails to do his/her job.

    This is just my opinion but I think it's fine as is, after all the group is supposed to function as a group and not have 2 guys that are the stars and the rest just come for show. One man army style of play seems to have been put to rest with the end of Wrath.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei_Sin View Post
    Shifty argument. Because someone fails to do their job is not a viable reason to ask for an interrupt, otherwise we might start seeing DPS classes demand to be able to tank because sometimes the tank fails to do his/her job.

    This is just my opinion but I think it's fine as is, after all the group is supposed to function as a group and not have 2 guys that are the stars and the rest just come for show. One man army style of play seems to have been put to rest with the end of Wrath.
    While i agree with the more work as a team approach, its really hard to do that with incompetent players that refuse to learn how to effectively play their class, and yes i only have to deal with that when running heroics and not raiding but still, its really damn annoying.
    Ive had to leave the first boss in SFK a number of times due to fail interupts, one time i had two mages and a DK and still when mend was cast no one kicked (After i specifically told them to kick it), sure i tryed but HoJ being on CD from kicking the bosses aoe heal, and being GCD locked out of AD'ing the cast is just annoying.

    and oh god dont even get me started on the 3rd boss in SFK, "Ok Rogue, i want you to kick left mob, Warrior get right, ill help out with my aoe stun and AS." WIPE due to boss getting inpowered.

    I honestly dont see a good reason to not give prot a 10 sec off the GCD kick outside of pvp issues, perhaps remove AS silence and/or interrupt?
    Last edited by Cryblood; 2011-01-01 at 08:24 AM.
    Shoot whoever let 3.0 go live.

  7. #47
    Yeah but, again, you're doing your part and the rest of the group also have to do theirs. I understand your frustration but I don't think that it's reason enough to hand out an interrupt when so many other classes already have it and it's nearly impossible for you to get a group of 5 people without, at least, 2 interrupts.

    You kind of said it yourself, you're GCD locked anyway so having the ability would not necessarily mean that you could, or would, have the chance to even use it.

    Random heroics seem to always have a problem anyway, if it's not one thing then it's the other and the best we can do, to increase our odds of success, is to try to pair with a friend or two that you can rely on. :\

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Tentei View Post
    your job is to hold threat and be a meatshield it is our job as dps to interrupt.
    That's only part of a tanks job, if you were a tank you would know that. Yes our job is to hold threat as well as take most of the damage but our job also requires us to lessen the amount of damage we take be it through gear, proper defensive cooldown use, or get this... through interrupts. We can't rely on the dps always being able to interrupt a big spell so allowing the tank to have one on a fairly short cooldown helps a lot.

  9. #49
    I'm so confused as to why Blizzard decided to give Ret the interrupt instead of just making it universal.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Beckwin View Post
    I'm so confused as to why Blizzard decided to give Ret the interrupt instead of just making it universal.
    Most everything they do to paladins will baffle.

    I was initially going to say they didn't want Holy to have an interrupt, but then I remembered resto shamans.

  11. #51
    Bloodsail Admiral ipoststuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cryblood View Post
    I honestly dont see a good reason to not give prot a 10 sec off the GCD kick outside of pvp issues, perhaps remove AS silence and/or interrupt?
    This. I dont see why dps being able to interrupt is a reason for us not to? Remember tanking evolved around warrior class. They had all the necessary stuff like ap debuff,attack speed debuff, damage reduction cooldown, interrupt, taunt back in CLASSIC wow. Why are we the only tanking class that needs their dps to interrupt for them.

  12. #52
    Elemental Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beckwin View Post
    I'm so confused as to why Blizzard decided to give Ret the interrupt instead of just making it universal.
    Because at the time DPS were going to be the interrupters.

    The problem arises from the fact that only one tank doesn't have one. I know thats caused problems in some areas where interrupts are mandatory. There is nothing wrong with the idea of making DPS responsible for interrupting and giving a tank an interrupt as a bonus. The diffficulty arises when you start designing content around the idea that interrupts are mandatory and that the tank has one. There seems to be a suspicion that that does seem to be the case in some encounters right now.

    EJL
    Last edited by Talen; 2011-01-01 at 02:34 PM.

  13. #53
    counting that's a ranged ability which can be glyphed with a powerful effect, at the moment, i feel fine with the avenger shield silence and it's current cooldown.

    if you think of a better ability without making paladins pratically identical to the other classes give me a shout.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacK View Post
    counting that's a ranged ability which can be glyphed with a powerful effect, at the moment, i feel fine with the avenger shield silence and it's current cooldown.

    if you think of a better ability without making paladins pratically identical to the other classes give me a shout.
    Just having an interupt is identical to the other classes. The simplest solution, is to just drop rebuke down to a trainable ability. ret needs it, prot needs it and since its melee ranged, holy won't see too much use of it.
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