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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Attsey View Post
    That will be Paragon EU. The refusal to confirm location when its EU and not US is annoying.
    Uhm, like US ever get first kills lol.

  2. #22
    Stood in the Fire
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    Ranged/Caster is the easymode of WoW.

  3. #23
    Pandaren Monk
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    Well, good for them, seriously... But I hope Blizzard may take a few notes from the comments from the bigger raiding guilds out there and re-tune some encounters to be less punishing for bringing melee at all.

    Participant in the Rhonin Diaries 1, 2, 3 and 4.
    Not the best Rogue in the world, just a Tribute.

  4. #24
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylla05 View Post
    Why would "what Paragon does to get the world first heroic kill in ungodly timeframes" really have anything to do with you, or 98% of the guilds out there?

    By the time the masses hit H AC (you know, who they design around), class balances will have happened, people will have had a lot of time to acquire gear, and this won't be an issue. When you're looking to get the first kills in the world, doing content that was barely tested, you're probably going to stack the raid in a way that makes it easier to get that virtual pat on the back. Don't get that confused with "the encounter is impossible unless you do it this way".

    Paragon should honestly know better than to start panic over something like 1 or 2 bosses requiring caster stacking. I mean, casters didn't spend the vast majority of Ulduar being outshined by melee, did we? Oh wait, yeah we did.
    You realise they didnt use a ranged set up cased on a dps requirement due to a balancing issue. Despite more gear healers will still have to heal and the encounter is still going to be a pain for melee particularly the last phase where its going to be a border line cluster fuck in the puddles and seeds. Atremedes is the boss where the dps was an issue to ranged was stacked however due to the air phase. The issues with council will likely be a result of new, modified or empowered boss mechanics particularly in the last phase.
    Gear Score is a good representation of skill, enchants, and gems...NOH! WAI-....

  5. #25
    AC is seriously a pain in the ass with melee chaining the crap out of the lightning in the last phase and accidentally stepping in ice puddles while the boss is kited. The way that fight finishes is the damage ramps up the longer the phase lasts. Eventually the raid falls over due to the damage output. Obviously, the fight favors using ranged classes, which can simultaneously avoid chaining the lightning and maintain 100% uptime on the kited boss, and never needs to worry about the ice puddles.

  6. #26
    World of Rangecraft: Casterclysm

    ---------- Post added 2011-01-03 at 05:30 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by skylla05 View Post
    Why would "what Paragon does to get the world first heroic kill in ungodly timeframes" really have anything to do with you, or 98% of the guilds out there?

    By the time the masses hit H AC (you know, who they design around), class balances will have happened, people will have had a lot of time to acquire gear, and this won't be an issue. When you're looking to get the first kills in the world, doing content that was barely tested, you're probably going to stack the raid in a way that makes it easier to get that virtual pat on the back. Don't get that confused with "the encounter is impossible unless you do it this way".

    Paragon should honestly know better than to start panic over something like 1 or 2 bosses requiring caster stacking. I mean, casters didn't spend the vast majority of Ulduar being outshined by melee, did we? Oh wait, yeah we did.
    Obvious mage is obvious.
    In my world if your overpowered with bad gear, you're even more overpowered with good gear. You argument fails.

  7. #27
    Field Marshal
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    Quote Originally Posted by Opethxx View Post
    Nah we just get world firsts in mostly everything else that matters. Except the Holocaust, Europeans are good at that.
    enraged american spotted

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Opethxx View Post
    Nah we just get world firsts in mostly everything else that matters. Except the Holocaust, Europeans are good at that.
    Go nuke a country you boy

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by tobokke View Post
    World of Rangecraft: Casterclysm

    ---------- Post added 2011-01-03 at 05:30 PM ----------



    Obvious mage is obvious.
    In my world if your overpowered with bad gear, you're even more overpowered with good gear. You argument fails.
    I'm guessing you're a ret pally, b/c no other melee class can argue that mages are op pve-wise compared to their class right now.

    On to the topic of ranged vs. melee in Cataclysm. There are still fights that are easier as a melee class (Magmaw) but the class balance issue is a true concern. As others have said in this thread, when you reach the point that melee have to sit out a fight in order for the guild to be able to down a boss, there needs to be a fix of either mechanics or damage output. It's not an issue of being unable to have the majority of the dps as melee in your raid, it's an issue of being unable to have any melee dps in your raid.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Therec View Post
    There are still fights that are easier as a melee class (Magmaw)
    Magmaw definitely isn't one of those fights either. Everything becomes extremely simple on the heroic mode if you can field a 100% ranged setup, excluding tanks.

    It's pretty bad.

  11. #31
    The Patient
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    Best. MMO-Report. Ever.

  12. #32
    High Overlord Rilancio's Avatar
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    Gz to Paragon
    Rilanciownz-Outland Eu
    Desertwolf-Sylvanas Eu

  13. #33
    That Dark Legacy Comment is dead on. My character seems like a homicidal maniac, killing all the low level mobs in the way of my dig site.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by zYN View Post
    Magmaw definitely isn't one of those fights either. Everything becomes extremely simple on the heroic mode if you can field a 100% ranged setup, excluding tanks.

    It's pretty bad.
    I'm not saying Magmaw is an easier fight if you have all melee dps, i'm just saying that the requirements of the melee on that fight are much less than that of the ranged dps. One could argue that it's because they're basically useless for the fight besides impaling Magmaw.

  15. #35
    I'm not saying Magmaw is an easier fight if you have all melee dps, i'm just saying that the requirements of the melee on that fight are much less than that of the ranged dps. One could argue that it's because they're basically useless for the fight besides impaling Magmaw.
    Yet you still don't bring in undergeared melee alts for the encouter do u?

  16. #36
    gratz paragon, cant wait to do council on hardmode regular was a blast alone favorite fight in this tier

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by jenseits View Post
    Yet you still don't bring in undergeared melee alts for the encouter do u?
    Nope, but doing the encounter Paragon's way may not be the only way to beat the encounter. The problem with world first progression raiding is that you don't have time to gear up all your main characters and figure out how to down the boss with what you have. If there is a quicker way to down the boss, you will take it no matter what the sacrifice so that you can be #1. The immediate concern is that many guilds will see this as the only way to beat the encounter quickly and not lose out on the coveted server first. I know plenty of 25 man guilds that were racing for server first H LK and stacked Paladins to eliminate infest after they saw Paragon's world first makeup. It may have not been the only way to beat the encounter, but it was the only way to beat it first.

  18. #38
    It is hard to see another way to kill a boss that has a 12 yard jump on a chain lightning. you have a normal raid distribution, and you get a ton of lightning in the melee camp. This is hard enough to heal away in ten man non-hero. You stack caster dps and only take two melee to interrupt feludius and suddenly chain lightning is no longer a problem. heroic mode AsC also appears to have a lightning charge that players get, another way to stop melee dps doing what they should be doing and banish them to the edge of the room so they do not kill anybody.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by skylla05 View Post
    Why would "what Paragon does to get the world first heroic kill in ungodly timeframes" really have anything to do with you, or 98% of the guilds out there?
    This is an issue even on normal mode. Not just heroic. And yes, there's quite a few guilds doing them. And yes, they are favoring ranged DPS, cause lets face it, why shouldn't they?

  20. #40
    I expect a lot of people questioning paragons methods haven't even tried this fight on normal. Unless melee got an upgrade in hp/survivability or healers suddently ere able to put out a lot more group healing then this fight will never ever favour melee. The damage put out on tight nit groups on this encounter is insane. Even on kills you end up with only one or two melee left. It isn't a class balance thing, it's shoddy encounter design.

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