Quick Question about Demonology and Shadow & Flame Talent

[Dekion]

Hi guys. I've been enjoying Demo spec for a while now. However, I've been noticing some more experienced demo locks are only putting 1 point in the Shadow and Flame talent. If SB is the main filler, what is the purpose of only putting in 1 point? Is improved immolate that much better?? Thanks in advance.

[Deleted]

Well SB is the main filler until 25% left of boss. After that you will be nuking Soulfire due to decimation.
Also with all the running etc the amount of sb youll be throwing is very limited compared to the uptime of immolate which should be 100%

[Dekion]

Ah I see. I haven't done any raids in Cata. I assume if you are raiding, putting only 1 point in S&F is the way to go. It just seems like a dps loss since S&F upgrades both SB and Incin. Incin for when MC procs. I guess I'll try it out and see. Thanks.

[Jenerena]

To be honest I have full points in it purely because nobody else provides the crit debuff in my raid. I don't really know if it's worth it now I think about it - still a 33% chance with 1 point.

[Deleted]

considering that 1/3 in S+F is usually enough to keep up the debuff, the 2/3 and 3/3 points are the lowest dps increase per talent point out of the available options.

[Jenerena]

I just simcrafted these two different spec and I gain around 120 dps from picking up two points in improved immolate.

However, under 25% I use shadow bolt every 30 seconds to maintain the buff - it is a big dps increase for our group. If it's only a 33% chance, I'm going to be finding myself having to shadow bolt maybe twice or three times every 30 seconds (of course I could get lucky) to maintain the buff, losing valuable soul fire time. I'm not sure the inconvenience and risk of buff downtime under 25% for the whole raid because of a lower chance to proc is worth 120 dps.

[Dekion]

Very good points indeed. Thanks guys for the assistance.

[scandore8472]

I just simcrafted these two different spec and I gain around 120 dps from picking up two points in improved immolate.

However, under 25% I use shadow bolt every 30 seconds to maintain the buff - it is a big dps increase for our group. If it's only a 33% chance, I'm going to be finding myself having to shadow bolt maybe twice or three times every 30 seconds (of course I could get lucky) to maintain the buff, losing valuable soul fire time. I'm not sure the inconvenience and risk of buff downtime under 25% for the whole raid because of a lower chance to proc is worth 120 dps.

Is it really a dps loss though? What about the dps loss from possibly casting 2 extra shadow bolts instead of SF if the ISB effect isn't is applied to the target during decimation? What about the raid DPS loss during those precious seconds without the crit debuff on the target? Seems like it's not worth it to me.