Cho'gall, what the ... are we doing wrong?

[Malefic]

My guild is 9/12 currently. We're progressing on cho'gall. What a nightmare it's turning out to be. We're a good guild, most bosses die within a dozen attempts, only boss we really struggled with was chimaeron but we had a gibbed AoE healing setup - once we fixed that we pretty much <5 shot him. We've tried everything on cho'gall and we're near 40 wipes on him now. I don't know what the hell is going on.

Our setup will consist of the following normally;

Paladin Tank,
Feral Tank,
Holy Pala Healer,
Holy Priest Healer,
Elemental Shaman (Can go Resto if needed, we've tried both)
Myself (Demo Warlock for this fight, Destro normally)
Rogue,
Ret Paladin,
Shadow Priest,
Frost Mage.

We also have another Warlock in the guild aswell as a Druid which can go Resto or Boomkin.

We tank Cho'gall in the middle of the room, with ranged stacking (easier to interrupt mind controls (I'm beginning to think spreading may be more efficient)). Our Paladin tank tanks him until Fury where our Druid takes over, the Paladin tank brings the larger add to the center of the room where we begin nuking the add, once <30% it is dragged to the door way to be finished off. Fester Blood isn't an issue (barring RnG - shit MC targets) the adds die so efficiently its unreal (Hey! Demo Warlock AoE is very balanced!) We then continue the nuke Cho'gall. With a 3 healer setup we get 4 larger adds before Phase 2 (We pop BL after the first Mind Control), with a 2 healer setup we get 3 adds, the 4th spawns but despawns during the transition. We are ofcourse spreading whilst the large adds are alive. When we get to Phase 2 the following either happens, or a combination of the both; if 2 man healing both our healers are low on mana, <10%, even with efficient use of mana gaining abilities aswell as innervates etc, or the tenticles don't die quick enough, the new ones spawn <3seconds after the old ones die. The are being interrupted everything; no idea what goes wrong. We stack as a raid in the centre of the room with Cho'gall there too whilst melee run around killing the tenticles and ranged kill them too. Shit just tends to hit the fan here, everyones health seems to resemble the Chimaeron fight, eventually people die (beginning to think we should spread during this phase). Best attempt being around 9%. Our DPS as a whole isn't bad, far from it, if we ran WWS/WOL we'd have some people with Top 10 spots for their class, even some Top 3s.

We've tried several different positioning; including tanking cho'gall on the left portal. Tried taking the adds to the door straight away; tried everything. Think we've even tried tanking him upside down. I seriously think we're doing something wrong, something so simple.


Questions regarding the fight. I've seen it solo tanked; how are they coping with Fury of Cho'gall during his Fire Stance whilst the add is alive? Thats alot of tank damage, our tank takes huge spikes, especially if a healer gets mind controlled. How are they only 2 healing it with a single tank also; DPS is obviously insane so they only get 3 adds and the tentacles die insanely quick too, I'm just confused how they're keeping the tank up during that phase.

I understand we don't have the best setup since melee are very nice for Phase 2 (We have no Hunter/DK or Warrior DPS in the guild )

[BuryGnome]

You know that if someone have more than 30-50% of the bar he 'puke' on others, and that puking spread and own you all? Just spread more and have nobody in front of you next time.

[Malefic]

Nobody has that, ever. No-one is taking large amounts of insanity. At worst they get the dot which is a simple dispell.

[vadei]

people have 1 tanked it, but its done with 3 healers. For the time being, since your not Paragon, do a 2 tank, 2healer method. Thats how we got it down.

[Barael]

As far as the solo-tanking goes, I guess you could try have a dps with a taunt ability to eat the Fury and main tank immediately taunts the boss back?

Anyway I have to agree it's a lot harder fight that some people would have you believe. We got him to like ~34% on our best try before the fifth add spawned and this was with blowing Heroism on pull (though this was our first night and only took ~5 tries). Not really looking forward to repeatedly wiping to a berserk timer after Ascendant Council, heh.

[Malefic]

@vadei In this video you can see its 2 healed and solo tanked. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcNf1...eature=related. This is however beta and I don't know whether or not anything has changed since beta.

I guess a DPS taking Fury is an option but I would say its adviseable.

[bigjenk]

You are saying you are doing everything right and all your dps are world class. Sounds like your not being realistic in you criticism of what is wrong imo.

[Malefic]

Im not saying our DPS are world class or we're doing everything right. I'm saying we're not taking large amounts of insanity, adds are dying efficiently also but there is still problems, we're getting to Phase 2 with everyone alive, people aren't being mindcontrolled for long periods of time, people are avoiding unecessary raid damage, something is still going wrong during Phase 2, as I said, maybe its the spreading? I was saying our DPS would have high logs for their class on certain fights to point out that our DPS are capable of doing their jobs, not that we're world class players.

[Dracodraco]

We did it 2 healers 2 tanks. Tell your healers to be more mana efficient, and tell DPS to stop taking unnessecary damage. Its a few weeks since we got it down first time now, using a holy priest (lightwell) and holy paladin healer setup. Same tactic / things happening as you (3 adds, fourth despawning due to P2). You also want to save bloodlust till P2, which means when he enters it you:

Kill all tentacles (drag him ontop so melee can cleave).
Blow BL after (dont waste it on the tentacles).
We killed 2 rounds of tentacles, then we had our warrior run around and stunning/interrupting as many he could of the third wave while we nuked down.

Also, if your players can hit top 10 WoL's, then there should be zero, null, no problems. We only managed a few top 20's on our first kill, and DPS average has increased several thousand since then.

[Nitros14]

2-healers, 2 tanks. Stuns and interrupts need to go out in phase 2 on Darkened Creations or you'll die.

[bigjenk]

Honestly if your having p2 problems you should be saving all dps cds bloodlust all aoe cds such as tranq, hymm etc and also having hybrids drop aoe heals such as healing rain, pallie aoe heal etc and healthstones you should be fine if people are vomiting on each other the debuff is dispelled and you guys are focusing and interupting the tentacles.

[Vordie]

2 healers?? Are you mad!?

We did it with the following setup on our first night on him:

Prot Pala
Bear Druid
Holy Paladin x 2
Holy Priest
Fire Mage
Affliction Lock
No-idea-what Death Knight
Balance Druid
No-idea-what Hunter

Pull him to the middle. Have the adds on the stairs. You shouldn't have more than 4 adds, we had 4 ourselves. Save Bloodlust for the end, Divine Hymn amd Lightwell works as a charm, too. Spread out, don't hug him.

I believe the reason you are dying is 'vomiting', people takimg too much damage from it, and healers running OOM.

[Deleted]

Our best attempt with 2 tanks 3 healers was 3%, then we switched shammy healer to do dps and we got him down easy.
We weren't pushing dps on P1 one much, we even got 5th big add spawned (and despawned, right when switch to P2 happened).
Tank that had fury debuff kited big adds to stairs and we killed them there. Cho'Gall was tanked near his throne meanwhile.
Ranged dps was stacked in the middle of the room, slowing and aoeing slime spawns.
On P2 we popped all CD's and our priority (untill 1mil. left on Cho'Gall) were tentacle spawns (we also assigned people to interrupt them as much as possible).

[sickly]

We got to him first time today(not counting rambo tries 20minutes last week without knownledge of anything ), within 5ish tries he was dead.. I dont know about your dps but we found we had no issues at all with either enrage or healers mana?

We used a setup of:
DK tank, Warrior tank
Holy pala, holy priest, resto shaman
Spriest, Rogue, Lock, feral and enhancement.

What we did was, in start, DK started tanking, everybody grouped up for the mindcontrol, Being grped in meele helps alot since you got shockwave, aoe fears, stuns etc. It also helps your holy pala& shaman to aoe heal when needed. Then when the fury came, warrior took it off like you did, and dk went off to drag the add off to door immiedatly. All dps but the feral went on these adds, Then when the tiny adds came later on, we simply just tott to the lock, who went apeshit with aoe, and rogue fok like a madman. Repeated this all the way down to phase 2. When phase2 was about to hit, we timed the next add to be spawned or just killed the little adds so we could pop BL instantly when he started go into "phase trans". Since we had quite good dps at that time he was burned down to 20ish % when he was done and tentacles went up. We marked rogue for focusing fire on the tentacles, leaving meele on the tentacles all the time they were up, ranged focusing boss. after this its just very simple to keep everyone healed up as good as possible and make sure you dont puke on your friends.

(as mmo is being a bitch i cant link it, but if u want it i can PM it to you.)
Heres the world of logs from last night, as you can see we had about 40 secs untill enrage, and healers mana was very fine when he died.

Oh and a tip for your healers if they arent, Use their mana CDs with each others. Mana tide, divine plea trinkets, also dreamless potions(cata versions) during mana tide makes for insane regeneration.

If i take my spirit proc & mana tide, plus dreamless pot, i get all my 105k mana back.

Good luck!

[Patham]

2 Tanks 3 Healers here, got our first kill last night

Raid comp was;
Blood DK
Protection Paladin
Resto Shaman
Discipline Priest
Resto Druid
Destruction Warlock
Fire Mage
Retribution Paladin
Survival Hunter
Shadow Priest.

Leisurely strolled through Phase One, had 4 adds spawn with the second phase transition occuring around the time the 5th add would spawn.
In Phase Two we have everybody on the tentacles as a priority, the debuff is way too huge to just have a small subsection of the raid on them, and the quicker they go down the quicker the healers can heal at a normal pace and the quicker dps can kill the remaining tentacles to get some time on the boss.

On most attempts we popped lust after having 2-3 sets of tentacle spawns, the incoming damage isn't at all threatening until later on and using it early will leave you with a still very much alive boss that's hitting the whole raid for virtually unhealable damage without draining what little reserves the healers will have left.
On our kill though we lusted early thanks to a healer being d/c'ed most of the fight.

Other than that, just keep a cool head, get everyone who can interrupt to do so and if possible in the mayhem, try and focus tentacles channeling on the healers, RNG can screw you here with all of them getting beamed.

For what little it could help, I filmed our kill if you can gain anything from that - www(dot)youtube(dot)com/watch?v=enaPe8Jr2cE

[Vongimi]

Shadowfury does wonders on this fight, you may want to consider staying destro.

[netherflame]

Shadowfury does wonders on this fight, you may want to consider staying destro.

QFT I love being destro on this, and as was said earlier if your dps is what you claim it to be then you'd be having absolutely no problems doing this. Tighten up your execution, I'd advise going destro personally, and keep calm. The fight is really nothing but a fight that gauges how effective your dps are at switching off the boss and killing adds, its very similar to P1 of Magmaw, Adds > Boss in all situations. If someone thinks they are going to be an all star by not interrupting or killing the adds in p2 your going to be fighting an uphill battle.

[Deleted]

Make sure the healers dispel Corruption of old God in p3.
The dot eats your raids hp if you just try to heal through it.

Edit.
Saw you have a shadowpriest. If mana is a big issue for the healers, The shadowpriest can help out dispelling, he can also pop Hymn of Hope to help out aswell.

[Gorehowl]

we got it down pretty easily tanking chogall at his throne and kite the adds to the very back giving range lots of space to kill the small adds with. stack the adds on top of each other when they die, have everyone stack up behind chogall so i(pally tank) can interrupt the MCs with avengers shield and the priest can fear easily. phase 2 we just spread out on the adds and interrupt the beams they do, took us about an hour to get it down.

[Alianthos]

Go with 3 healers, if your DPS are so efficient, you will have no trouble with this.

We did it with 2 tanks, 3 healers (Pal, Sham, Disc) and 5 DPS (Frost mage, Warlock, Elem, Enhanc, Hunter) and we killed him in 9 min or so, 1 min off the enrage timer.