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  1. #1

    10 man vs 25 man - Which one is the hardest?

    As the title says, which is the hardest 10 man raiding or 25 man raiding?

    In an expansion such as wotlk the answer is very obvious, 25 man. However with cata coming, making 25 and 10 man dropping equal gear and blizzard claiming it to be equally hard, people still seem to say that 25 man is harder right off the bat.

    Putting together 25 proper players sure is harder then putting together 10. But does that really makes it harder to succeed in 25 man raids?
    In 25 man raids people can get carried, everyone doesn't need to perform as good as the top 3 dps, also you can usually afford a death or more, however in a 10 man oh no no no you can not, if 1 player dies the encounter becomes ALOT more challenging (CR, ankh, soulstone excluded here)

    Also loot contribution is alot more unforgiving in 10 man, for example leather melee dps pants drop, your rogue gets them. Next week same pants drop again and you do not have a feral, now these pants are most likely a complete waste. 25 man may drop more loot but its doubtful that 3 identical pants drop at the same time.

    in 10 man there is also alot more setup related issues. getting in the certain class for a certain encounter is alot more complex then in 25 man.

    I would like to get some discussion going, some serious one, i do miss alot of valid points in this post and you may notice im close to defending 10 man as being as hard as 25 man but that is becasue most people got oppsite opinions. For example a friend of mine killed Halfus 25 man heroic quite easily, the week after they tried it in 10 man and they claimed it to be impossible. On some bosses it is the reversed. So look at the big picture please

    Forgive me for bad english, not my native tongue.
    Last edited by Hots; 2011-01-05 at 05:14 PM.

  2. #2
    The Patient
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    I would suggest a poll, so that people can vote, and have a discussion in order to defend their vote.
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  3. #3
    10 is harder

  4. #4
    I'd say that 25 is harder for some fights, and 10 is harder for others, which means Blizzard has somehow miraculously delivered on the seemingly absurd idea that the difficulty will be balanced.

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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by dpswhore View Post
    10 is harder
    yea right.... just because u dont need to spread that much, move that much, be away from each other to avoid some fancy aoe on players to not hit others that much.... and we can go with this list over 9000....

  6. #6
    25 requires more people to be more coordinated than 10man
    10man numbers are a bit more complicated to tune.

    Spreading out is different, you try to spread out as much as you can, or into groups, but you also have more healers to deal with the more raid damage that is being dealt.

    The harder raid ultimately is subject to the actual raiders that are there and the compositions. Lag monsters etc. If one person lags in 25man, you still might meet your enrage timer, if one person lags in 10man you're boned. WoW is easy, it's the people that don't see it like that who make it "harder" :P

  7. #7
    40men raids is the hardest...

  8. #8
    10man will always be easier nomatter what blizzard says, less retards around to fuck it up
    "No. I am Ganner. This threshold is mine. I claim it for my own. Bring on your thousands, one at a time or all in a rush. I don't give a damn. None shall pass."
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  9. #9
    25 man is harder. The hard part isn't the fight mechanics change, or more dmg, or other things. It's finding those 25 concentrated, skilled & devoted player. Communication is also harder.

    In a 10 man it's much easier to have control of that and to communicate. Sure 10 man cannot have all the buff & debuff in the game, but after what Blizz has done lately, most classes have abilities that give similar/same buff/debuff and therefore 10 man groups can cover most of the buff/debuff (at least the major ones).
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  10. #10
    Dreadlord
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    The tuning of the encounters might be pretty balanced, but finding 25 competent people is harder than finding 10 competent people. Co-ordinating 25 people is harder than co-ordinating 10 people. Spreading out 25 people is harder than spreading out 10 people.
    Yeah, 25 gets my vote.

  11. #11
    10 is harder you have less ppl to assign for different jobs
    "Blizzard is not incompetent or stupid and they are not intentionally screwing you over"

  12. #12
    10m personally because atm if you die once and get rezzed no more chances 25 has 3 but then again alot more people for error but i still find 10m harder due to the fact that they gotta work more to reach their goal

  13. #13
    edit: aren't they the same, except in 25 you have a chance to group with more idiots?

  14. #14
    For the *most* part, I'd say 25 mans are harder, and I say that as a 10 man raider. Harder to organize, harder to 'spread out' on relevant encounters, easier for one person to make a dumb mistake as you have more people, etc. One thing 25 man has going for it over 10 s that is is a little more forgiving despite having more people...unless the boss is very low at this point in time a death in 10 man is a wipe...our group doesn't even have a druid nor even a lock so there is no rezzing minus our one shaman. To continue that point, I think 10 is a little rougher on the compostion...for example, a lot of fights I'm noticing really support ele shamans and their 5 second interupt....they are great for both Halfus and Omnitron for example and make shit a lot easier.

  15. #15
    10 Man is definitely harder. In 10 man if one person dies, as people have said above, you are basically boned. If one person isn't pulling their weight in DPS, again, you are boned, you may not reach the enrage timer. In 25 man, people will ALWAYS be carried and its more forgiving on people being lower on damage. 10 man theres usually only 2-3 healers, less people to heal, but less healers to heal the people there are.

  16. #16
    after doing at least 8 bosses on both 10 and 25 man, i'd say all were easier on 25 man except chimaeron. losing a single person in 10 man is far more devastating than losing 1-2 in a 25 man.

    people give you the "lol 25 competent people hard 2 find" shit, but, honestly, you can down most of the first 6-7 bosses with people that are alt tabbed on netflix for most of the fights, in normal mode.
    Autonomy 85 Orc Death Knight US Area 52

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by L05_PL View Post
    yea right.... just because u dont need to spread that much, move that much, be away from each other to avoid some fancy aoe on players to not hit others that much.... and we can go with this list over 9000....
    And in 10 you've over 5 stuns snares to deal with adds and you can bring and be flexible with tanks-healers.

  18. #18
    10m: More individual focused, if you person is bad, be it dps, tank or heals, it can cause a night of wipes. The margin for error is much lower. Your also limited in your composition. Communication is also easier since your dealing with a smaller number of people.
    25m: Higher margin of error, however it also enables people to be carried, which can cause them to develop bad playing skills. It is also much more difficult to gather 25 people than 10. Communication is harder due to the larger number of people

    I am a 10m raider and it really is a toss up. Some fights are harder on 10, some are harder on 25, like Herecius said, it's a miracle that they actually managed to get that balance down.

  19. #19
    hardest part is telling that guy who is nice, but really fucking horrible, that you want him to quit wow and never associate himself with the guild again

  20. #20
    Mechagnome Mossmantle's Avatar
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    What about the special raid boss? You know, the one called Dead Horse, where everyone gets their stick on the way to the forums...
    Congratulations, your mind has been expanded.

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