Stamina Gemming (Split from another topic)

[Kriegerr]

We dont have massive health pool i LOLED 200k fully buffed

[Deleted]

We dont have massive health pool i LOLED 200k fully buffed

Now I loled.. post your armory link.

Back on topic.

I'm tanking heroics atm, and did not focus on stamina.
Am around 5% hit, and 22 Expertise, which helps landing your threat abilities. In general however, do not focus on it. Your threat will be high enough as it is for instances on lvl 85.

Avoidance and Mastery make sure the incoming damage will be more controlable. Focus on those.

@Iwwkicker: nice post.

[Gazgul]

Now I loled.. post your armory link.

Back on topic.

I'm tanking heroics atm, and did not focus on stamina.
Am around 5% hit, and 22 Expertise, which helps landing your threat abilities. In general however, do not focus on it. Your threat will be high enough as it is for instances on lvl 85.

Avoidance and Mastery make sure the incoming damage will be more controlable. Focus on those.

@Iwwkicker: nice post.

Now i LOLED..

over 200k buffed http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../abyiss/simple

[blizzy]

over 200k buffed http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../abyiss/simple

You are doing it wrong. You're focusing on a massive HP buffer when this buffer is not necessary anymore. This is not WotLK.

[ChrisKoe]

Now i LOLED..

over 200k buffed http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../abyiss/simple

You know your healers hate you, don't you?

[Larcissa]

Now i LOLED..

over 200k buffed http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../abyiss/simple

This isn't WOTLK man, go read up a little before you bring your huge ego to the table

[Deleted]

Now I loled! First you said it's impossible to have 200k hp buffed. The guy proving you are wrong so you call him noob cuz he got that 200k hp? Wth?! Fully buffed I'm almost 200k hp as well and not because I belive higher pool = better tanking. All my runeforges go into mastery/avoidance, in total I have around 30% avoidance (~13% dodge and ~17% parry) and 2124 mastery rating so you won't tell me I should go learn smth about DKs because my hp pool is over 200k. You are so pathetic, honestly. Now please someone say I'm doing it wrong way and I will laugh straight into his/her face. http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...riush/advanced.

[blizzy]

Fully buffed I'm over 200k hp as well and not because I belive higher pool = better tanking.

You're sporting multiple stamina gems in your equipment.

By the way: Personally I don't care if it's possible to get >200k HP. I just don't think it's useful.

[Larcissa]

Now I loled! First you said it's impossible to have 200k hp buffed. The guy proving you are wrong so you call him noob cuz he got that 200k hp? Wth?! Fully buffed I'm almost 200k hp as well and not because I belive higher pool = better tanking. All my runeforges go into mastery/avoidance, in total I have around 30% avoidance (~13% dodge and ~17% parry) and 2124 mastery rating so you won't tell me I should go learn smth about DKs because my hp pool is over 200k. You are so pathetic, honestly. Now please someone say I'm doing it wrong way and I will laugh straight into his/her face. http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...riush/advanced.

I didn't say it wasn't possible, I just said it wasn't as useful unlike WOTLK

[Paladin0228]

Stam stacking isnt OPTIMAL for some content. however you people being snippy about it also must realize :

STAM stacking is the BEST route for progression. STAM stacking is BEST for hard modes. STAM stacking is rarely a BAD choice.


That said I am going with

Stam > Mastery > Expertise/Hit > Dodge / Parry > Others , with using hybrid gems in gear where socket bonuses are worth grabbing.

And using Stoneskin garg or fallen crusader as runeforge.

Remember : Max health still helps your self heals due to the way Death Strike works ( and to a lesser extent Vamp Blood and Pet sacrificing )

Also max health affects Vengeance , which equals more threat

[Ikkatsu]

No you're not, you're lying. No really.


Anyway, the elitist jerks thread linked tells you what really to go for.

At the moment I prioritise avoidance, reforge my threat stats to dodge/paarry as appropriate, and let mastery have it's own space. Gemming should be stam in blue, and hybird X/Stam in others.

Why you die so fast is REALLY vague to ask. If you're still fairly new, your gear probably isn't great. There's no harm in rotating a few cooldowns on trash mobs, they're all pretty short anyway, and you have a billion of them.

He is NOT lying (just, exaggerating).

On any raid content outside of Baradin Hold (lol), my Death Strike mainly heals for 30k... with regularly 40k heals and the rare 50k heal. Then due to the amount of mastery i have i get 103% of the heal as a Blood Shield.

You should NOT reforge to Dodge/Parry as a Death Knight, you should reforge away from EVERYTHING (except Expertise and Hit... you need those for Death Strike) to Mastery, whilst keeping an equal amount of Dodge and Parry.

Blue Gems = Stamina
Yellow Gems = Mastery
Red Gems = If you want the set bonus and have less than 26 expertise, go Expertise/Mastery... otherwise, just stick Mastery in it.

Stacking Stamina is a thing of the past, the gains you get from a 101 Stamina Gem (assuming you have Epic JC) is laughable compared to the gains from Mastery...

A static 1,010 Health is not going to save your ass compared to a scalable Mastery like Blood Shield.

Stat Priority: Hit > Expertise > Mastery > Stamina > Dodge/Parry.

[Deleted]

Now I loled! First you said it's impossible to have 200k hp buffed.

As I started the reply on this matter: I never said it was impossible. But I do think the replies afterwards, about being hated by healers, says it all.
As for your equip Deriush, that is another league.

The topic is about the starting DK, as asked. I still wouldn't stack stamina.

'nough said on the matter in various posts

[taek]

While he is correct in the entire post as far as I'm aware, I would like to correct one small deal with this portion here. The reason you do not Dual Wield has very little to do with threat, and everything to do with a mechanic known as Parry Haste. Many bosses and trash have an effect (please note, not all bosses or trash do have this), where upon a parry, they will haste their next attack or two. When dual wielding, you are striking almost 4x as frequently for auto attacks, and unless you are hardcapped with expertise, you WILL be parried much more frequently, and I guarantee it will cost you at least 1 horribly close wipe sometime in your tanking career.

Was parry haste re-introduced in cata? When i DK tanked in WOTLK parry haste did not exist on most instance bosses.

Pwnwear:

http://pwnwear.com/2010/02/11/parry-...crown-citadel/

Boss Can boss parry-haste?
Marrowgar no
Deathwhisper yes
Deathbringer Saurfang no
Festergut no
Rotface no
Putricide no
Prince Valanar no
Prince Taldaram no
Blood-Queen Lana’thal no
Sindragosa yes
Lich King no
Sindragosa should not be tanked dual-wield either, because of Permeating Chill. Go two-handed.

[SurrealNight]

Lots of people said go straight +Stam for blue slots but whats the draw back of using this as a guideline?

Red: Defender's Demonseye (+Stam/Parry)
Yellow: Puissant Dream Emerald (+Stam/Mastery)
Blue: Regal Dream Emerald (+Stam/Dodge)
Prismatic: Puissant Dream Emerald

I've been finding as I gear up that I seem to be getting mostly +Parry gear myself. Even reforged a lot of it out I'm still a good 1% higher than dodge is right now.

Side note I'm definitely a fan of Lichborne, pug heroic wiped on heroic Rajh with about 1/4 life left and I was able to tank and self heal through the rest solo. Just remember to use AMS on Blessing of the Sun each time!

[Avatar Killer]

im tanking in full 346/4 359 items, iv gone for alot of mastery over any other stat, i take big hits but when i do im putting 40-80k self shields up, aint started tankin raids yet but for heroics it seems 2 be fine

No you're not, you're lying. No really.

no really, he logically means he DS's then cumlatively he's had 40-80k WORTH of shields up which makes perfect sense. Really

---------- Post added 2011-01-05 at 01:01 PM ----------

Was parry haste re-introduced in cata? When i DK tanked in WOTLK parry haste did not exist on most instance bosses.

no parry haste was removed. the only difference between parry and dodge is the letters in the word and the fact that they diminish in returns at separate intervals (one at a time instead of just starting at 23% or whatever)

---------- Post added 2011-01-05 at 01:06 PM ----------

Lots of people said go straight + Stam for blue slots

and lots of people were old LK tanks. this strat kinda sorta worked for LK but is not only obsolete for cata but just shows that they haven't learned yet how to adapt to the game. So yeah there are all kinds of holes all over the place but the best bet period is to use what blizzard has offered us and stack avoidance to diminishing returns soft cap and stack mastery and stam accordingly. Having 100 million hp sounds like a good idea but it just means the healers are trying their patience to heal you to full since you cant dodge or parry anything and having DS shield you for 20k every 10 seconds and leaving that gap open since you stacked nothing but mastery and cant dodge or parry that next 40k incoming attack just means you will STILL have to be healed.
Balance is ALWAYS the BEST answer.

Back to the original discussion.
the best strat and always has been is to monitor what works best for you and use that. People say stacking mastery till you get 150 or stacking stam till you have 300kl hp is best... some even might claim that having 75% dodge and parry works best...
Facts might prove one way or another based on the raid composite and play style. Button mashing if you will.
Different raids, Different players, Different strat.
Always has been always will be.
Play based on your raid composition and a little reading on your play style.

[Zao]

I split this discussion from the original thread...seriously, if you want to discuss these things again feel free to do so now instead of confusing the poor OP in the original thread

[Emochild]

ok some healer words here, if you are a DK tank and know how to use your shield, go for the mastery but most classes cant do that, i rather wana heal a tank with 180 that went for avoidance, than to heal a tank with 1 million HP and 0 10% avoidance, cause that would drain my mana like a bitch. so dont aim high HP pools people, aim survival and you will get laid by the first female healer you encounter

[Nyanmaru]

no parry haste was removed. the only difference between parry and dodge is the letters in the word and the fact that they diminish in returns at separate intervals (one at a time instead of just starting at 23% or whatever)

Player Parryhaste -> yes (when it was made the same rating conversion as dodge)
NPC Parryhaste -> no (at least noone could show any source)

Though, if you got sources for the complete removal of parryhaste I'd like to see them so I could update the mechanics thread accordingly.

[Deleted]

First - YOU DO NOT TAKE HIT/EXPERTISE FOR THREAT, YOU TAKE HIT/EXPERTISE FOR DEATH STRIKES. Wish people would get on the same page already, need to say this at least 2-3 times a week. Having a Miss Streak when you're relying on Death Strike is BAD. Period.

Second - There are currently two viable Playstyles.
A: (The Most Common) Mastery. You Gem Mastery with a choice of Stamina for Blue Sockets, you Enchant and Reforge Avoidance into Mastery.
B: (Not so common) Stamina/Avoidance. You Gem Full-Stamina, you Reforge everything (Hit + Expertise) into Avoidance. This helps for Encounters with Healing Debuffs and is/was used by Top World Tanks to take on Heroics Progress on Undergeared Fights.
A DK Mastery Tank will have issues on the Halfus Wyrmbreaker Encounter because of his Healing Debuff for example. This is where relying on Death Strike so much makes you fail. Big time.

Third - L2p. Just because WotLK is over doesn't mean Stamina automatically fails.

This isn't WOTLK man, go read up a little before you bring your huge ego to the table

You are doing it wrong. You're focusing on a massive HP buffer when this buffer is not necessary anymore. This is not WotLK.

Fourth - Parry-Haste is disabled on all Cataclysm Bosses. Granted, Sinestra from Bastion of Twilight has never been publicly tested so we cannot confirm whether or not she does or does not have it. Probably not. Cho'Gall will hit the deck at some point soon probably however so we'll know quite soon.

Was parry haste re-introduced in cata? When i DK tanked in WOTLK parry haste did not exist on most instance bosses.

Fifth - Welcome to 4.0. Dodge and Parry have exactly the same Diminishing Returns now.

no parry haste was removed. the only difference between parry and dodge is the letters in the word and the fact that they diminish in returns at separate intervals (one at a time instead of just starting at 23% or whatever)

Sixth - The Stamina/Avoidance strategy focuses on the Tank being able to take a large amounts of Hit, and with his/her high Avoidance to avoid quite a few more of them compared to a Mastery Tank that just slaps Death Strike --> Blood Shield up every X seconds and goes from there. Its really not a big a Mana Drainer as people make it out to be. Yes, its less Selfhealing, but its also less incoming damage, so the Selfhealing loss is fine.

ok some healer words here, if you are a DK tank and know how to use your shield, go for the mastery but most classes cant do that, i rather wana heal a tank with 180 that went for avoidance, than to heal a tank with 1 million HP and 0 10% avoidance, cause that would drain my mana like a bitch. so dont aim high HP pools people, aim survival and you will get laid by the first female healer you encounter

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

An extra couple of thousand or so health does nothing when you have a bunch of loose mobs beating on you. RNG is out to fuck you in your tight little hole.

But I'm pretty sure as we get into the final tiers of raiding tanks will probably gem stamina again, because by then Health pools will be what?300k?

None of this really matters, what matters is can you keep the dangerous mobs CCd and can you keep rogues out of the fire.